- This topic is empty.
- Posts
If some people live forever on Earth while others stay in heaven, will the person without the heavenly hope(practically family member) be able to talk with the ones in heaven?
P.S. This happened after I went to a funeral at Babylon(yeah I know kinda hypocritical), and contradicted most of what the clergy said.
There are evil spirits all over who can imitate the deceased and they can be very convincing. God doesn't want us communicating with the dead.
Kathi, I think BC&JW is meaning….the belief that (after the ressurection) some go to Heaven while some attain Paradise Earth, so the Question would be….can those in Heaven communicate etc with those on Paradise Earth….
BC&JW, is that what your meaning?…I would say Yes.
Quote (karmarie @ April 27 2011,11:00) Kathi, I think BC&JW is meaning….the belief that (after the ressurection) some go to Heaven while some attain Paradise Earth, so the Question would be….can those in Heaven communicate etc with those on Paradise Earth…. BC&JW, is that what your meaning?…I would say Yes.
Yes, and you also say yes, but how is this biblically possible without going catholic and praying to saints?BC&JW,
I think there is so much we dont know that will be in the life eternal, because we have no idea what it will be like.
So, I cant answer that, but I will look into it.I do recall the story of the dream that (Jacob?) had, where Angels were going up and down between Heaven and Earth. I don't know what it meant, do you?
Genisis 28:10
And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran. And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of. And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not. And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
Quote (karmarie @ April 27 2011,11:39) Genisis 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran. And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of. And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not. And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
Visions happened back then, but I don't think Humans will appreciate “visions” instead of their real family you know. I need to know how to be able to explain this to the person who believes all good people go to heaven.Hi! In Rev. 21 it will tell you that the New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven
Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:9 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 ¶ And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ April 27 2011,12:50) Hi! In Rev. 21 it will tell you that the New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:9 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 ¶ And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Peace Irene
Hmm God's tent being with mankind, I didn't think about that, while it doesn't explicity state how were going to communicate with those of the anionted/saints etc at least there close?
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 27 2011,15:34) Visions happened back then, but I don't think Humans will appreciate “visions” instead of their real family you know. I need to know how to be able to explain this to the person who believes all good people go to heaven.
BC&JW, I don't quite get your question.I myself would like to know… if two people love each other, such as in a marriage, then will they be together, still, as a couple, in the next life.
Most people said no, but I felt otherwise. And Adventists would say yes they will be together, so thats something I was interested in… is that sort of what your saying? But to do with family and loved ones. (If some are 'up there' and the others are 'down here'.
I feel that those in Heaven will interact with those on Earth, sort of like the two becoming one…or something. (Heaven and Earth)
To all,
It is my opinion we will be like the angels in our ability to travel between realms.
There are reports of those who travel between realms even in these ages.
Quote (karmarie @ April 27 2011,14:30) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 27 2011,15:34) Visions happened back then, but I don't think Humans will appreciate “visions” instead of their real family you know. I need to know how to be able to explain this to the person who believes all good people go to heaven.
BC&JW, I don't quite get your question.I myself would like to know… if two people love each other, such as in a marriage, then will they be together, still, as a couple, in the next life.
Most people said no, but I felt otherwise. And Adventists would say yes they will be together, so thats something I was interested in… is that sort of what your saying? But to do with family and loved ones. (If some are 'up there' and the others are 'down here'.
I feel that those in Heaven will interact with those on Earth, sort of like the two becoming one…or something. (Heaven and Earth)
I hope angels can materialize on Earth again
. I doubt there's a scriptural reference for it though.Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2011,23:46) To all, It is my opinion we will be like the angels in our ability to travel between realms.
There are reports of those who travel between realms even in these ages.
Kerwinyou must refer to the 144k
because Christ came to save what was lost first ;
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.all are not priests and kings you need people on the ground,otherwise why is there a kingdom?or a church,or a king
Pierre
Pierre,
I am speaking of believers, including Jesus, who are made the Sons of God by receiving the Spirit of sonship; just as scripture declares.
Quote Romans 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Jesus was the first to receive the Spirit of sonship and God dwells in him through that spirit making him one with God in the spirit of righteousness. Those that believe receive the Spirit of sonship through faith in Jesus and thus become members of the unity because they become one as Jesus is one with God. That is all believers.
Quote John 17 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
Note: All scriptures from c. 2011 NIV.
Quote (karmarie @ April 27 2011,09:30) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 27 2011,15:34) Visions happened back then, but I don't think Humans will appreciate “visions” instead of their real family you know. I need to know how to be able to explain this to the person who believes all good people go to heaven.
BC&JW, I don't quite get your question.I myself would like to know… if two people love each other, such as in a marriage, then will they be together, still, as a couple, in the next life.
Most people said no, but I felt otherwise. And Adventists would say yes they will be together, so thats something I was interested in… is that sort of what your saying? But to do with family and loved ones. (If some are 'up there' and the others are 'down here'.
I feel that those in Heaven will interact with those on Earth, sort of like the two becoming one…or something. (Heaven and Earth)
Karmarie,What did God design marriage for? It seems that me that he legislated it for the purpose of having and raising children. Reproduction will be unnecessary in a place where humans live forever. I am sure angels have relationships among one another. A couple may very well stick together for eternity even though they are not married. That would be their choice and they would make that choice with joy and in accordance with God’s will because they would know God loves and would not bring any harm to them without a loving reason.
Trust Jesus when he teaches us that we will be like the angels in that we neither marry nor are given in marriage, trust in God. What they teach us is best for us though it may sting in the short term.
Here is a piece on relationship types. I believe some of these relationship types will not exist after the age of Judgement.
To tie this in to the topic of this thread. If a man in a relationship with a woman is part of the 144,000 and the woman is not; does that disolve their relationship? A secound related question is whether it is righteous to disolve a righteous relationship?
God made the earth to be occupied.
The word went out of his mouth and will not return until it has been accomplished.
Jesus came to redeem mankind and to finish the work that he gave to the first Man, Adam.
Jesus, as Man in the flesh, fulfilled that word that God gave to Adam and his reward was to be taken up as TRUE SON OF GOD, as a Spiritual Son, a Begotten Son, raised up to be in power with his God and to rule over the whole world.
And there are 144,000 others of Mankind who will share likewise with him – begotten Sons of God, Heirs to God, Brothers with Christ in the invisible heavey realm.
So, then, what of PARADISE?
Paradise is an Earthly realm – what need does an immaterial Spirit need of encumbering earthly material matter?
None! So who will be in Paradise but those of encumbering earthly material matter – Flesh, Bodies of Flesh… Flesh that cannot die, that will have an abundance of sustenance fueled by the everlasting power of God through the ordered layers of the heavenly brothers in Christ.
For sure, these 144,000 will be able to traverse between the invisible and the visible realm.
Yes, it is already done – in Jesus, who is the ONLY ONE OF MANKIND who has ever Gone Up and Come down and gone up again.Angels, come and go, up and down – yes, but they are not to be counted as they cannot remainin the visible earthly realm else they are destroyed. Moreover, they are merely servants, messengers, deliberate of deeds set to then by God who ALLOWS them access to the visible realm – it is not if their own accord!
The 144,000 will have recognisable bodies in flesh that they 'put on' when they come into the visible realm and 'take off' when they leave it.
Angels do not have recognisable flesh bodies for there is no need – their recognition is by their Spirits and they desire no open recognition of each other such as Human beings need recognition of one another (Are we not 'in Spirit' in this forum… Yet we recognise each other often by our 'spirit' even without names to the post? Try it… Move your browser to the left covering the names and see if you recognise who's posts is who's. … Arghh… Yes, yes, some people put their names in their posts – why?)
Istari (just in case you missed my name in the panel to the left here)
Kerwin,
I wouldnt stress the 'Like the Angels' part too much.
It's just a metaphor for saying 'A class of being that does not procreate'
Mankind is made in the image of God – so constant reference to 'being like Angels' is to bring down the image of God to a level of blind servitude. This can hardly glorify God.
The class of being that does not procreate is also the class called 'Spirit' – Spirits do not procreate, so it would then be better to say that “Those of the Mankind, the Saints, Apostles, Elders, etc., who aspire to the Spirit class in heaven, the 144,000 reborn from the first resurrection, will be like the Spirits in heaven who do not marry nor are given in marriage.
For what purpose would one in spirit have a need for an individual relationship with another spirit – when God made man he made ONE MAN – it was ONLY when the man was found to be alone did God create THE WOMAN from a part of him… And this is in the flesh. One cannot be ALONE if one is in Spirit for at the least, God is with that spirit ALWAYS…Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 29 2011,06:32) I hope angels can materialize on Earth again . I doubt there's a scriptural reference for it though.
BC&JW,
I looked but cant find anything. What do the JWs teach on this? (Are you a JW yet)?Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2011,01:02) Karmarie, What did God design marriage for? It seems that me that he legislated it for the purpose of having and raising children. Reproduction will be unnecessary in a place where humans live forever. I am sure angels have relationships among one another. A couple may very well stick together for eternity even though they are not married. That would be their choice and they would make that choice with joy and in accordance with God’s will because they would know God loves and would not bring any harm to them without a loving reason.
Trust Jesus when he teaches us that we will be like the angels in that we neither marry nor are given in marriage, trust in God. What they teach us is best for us though it may sting in the short term.
Here is a piece on relationship types. I believe some of these relationship types will not exist after the age of Judgement.
To tie this in to the topic of this thread. If a man in a relationship with a woman is part of the 144,000 and the woman is not; does that disolve their relationship? A secound related question is whether it is righteous to disolve a righteous relationship?
Kerwin,This I quoted on another thread from a site.
I don't agree with everything that they say but some thing's I do.
Example this piece is another view on the matter:When Matthew’s and Luke’s records are combined, a clearer image emerges that make Jesus’ words more clearly, “For in the resurrection, those who are counted worthy to attain that age, they neither marry nor are given in marriage at that world, nor can they die any more, for they are equal to the angels.”
Through Matthew’s and Luke’s combination, we can find two answers:
First, who neither marry nor are given in marriage?
Second, in where they neither marry nor are given in marriage?
The answers are: first, Jesus pointed to those who were saved and resurrected from death;
Second, in that new world they will not marry.
But Jesus did not deny there are marital lives in that new world. “He (Christ) who gave Eve to Adam as a helpmeet, performed His first miracle as a marriage festival.”Just as on the sixth day of the creation, God matched Adam and Eve as husband and wife, and then they entered the new world as a loving couple, who never marry nor are given in marriage after that.
God’s match-making is far superior to the earthly marriage. Everyday people marry and are given in marriage, giving birth, divorce, and die because this is a sin-sick fallen world.
But the world to come it is wonderful and perfect for each has his or her own spouse. All live in pairs, faithful and loving each other forever and ever. God would have joined them together or God let them select their ideal spouse according to His will before they enter into the new world.
There will be no misunderstanding; sorrow, hatred, quarrel, and neither death nor divorce in heaven.
Therefore, in such condition, Jesus simply proclaimed that the saints who have been saved and resurrected from death will “neither marry nor are given in marriage in that world,” because what God has joined together, let not man separate.Those who attain the heavenly place will no need of a 'marriage' relationship as their whole direction of union will be upwads towards GOD and downward toward mankind.
There will be no personal 'Love' – their love will be to ALL in equal measure.
Those in Paradise may still be in union with their partner – but -….
What if they were LAWFULLY MARRIED MORE THAN ONCE?
That was, in fact, the question that was asked of Jesus? What was Jesus' answer?
I don't actually understand – 'They will neither Marry nor are they given in marriage'
That to me says 'No one will have a personal partner – everyone will have equal love for each other – there will be no new children'
Think of this: What is MARRIAGE to God? The single everlasting earthly union of Two persons for the procreation of offspring…
It is not about 'Being with someone else for sex or cuddles or holding hands or chatting' for that is not what God seeks from mankind under his new world rulership.
But I still don't see the clear answer… Except Sexual union SHOULD BE RULED OUT!!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
