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miia,
I am not speaking if gods in the sense that God is a god as I am well aware he is the one and only god. I am merely speaking of the word god. The word can has other definitions that do not god as God is god. The word god is not reserved to only mean god as God is god and some think it is. When you say so called gods then you make yourself to go by that misunderstanding.
It also makes it seem like you accusing God of wrongdoing since he is the one that calls both angels and certain human beings gods.
In summary, the word god is a word like any other and it is the context it is used in that tells which meaning is correct.
Just as a viceroy is king to everyone but the true king, Christ has the name of God and is God in that we see the true God through him, yet is himself not the true God.
Yes he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Of course many including some here beg to differ. They say he is God and always existed. Others say he never existed. They are both wrong.
No, t8, Jesus does not have power “over” the Father, Jesus IS the Power OF the Father…and it is through that power (Jesus) that the Father created the world and saves those men who have made that ‘power’ (Jesus) the Lord of their lives.
Thanks for setting that up for me, btw. 🙂
If you understood my post, then you would realise the futility in your post to Terriccca.
You said:
Does Jesus have power OVER YOU? If so, according to what you wrote, then He is your god. Why not just admit it. Or would you say that Jesus does not have power over you. Do you have power over Jesus???
So if Jesus is God because he has power over us, then does Jesus have power over God? You clearly said no. Jesus is not the one true God by your own admission. Rather, he is in submission to God.
CONTRADICTION / FAIL / EXPOSED
Thanks for setting that up for me, btw. 🙂 🙂
Nick,
you asked:If scripture is divine communication can we improve on it?
We are not to add to the truth of scripture but it is fruitful to explain it. Jesus did many times.
@t8
you said:So if Jesus is God because he has power over us, then does Jesus have power over God? You clearly said no. Jesus is not the one true God by your own admission. Rather, he is in submission to God.
Where was it that you asked me if Jesus had power ‘over God’ and where was it that I said that Jesus didn’t have power over God implying that God had power over Him?
I believe your question was whether Jesus had power over ‘the Father’ of which I responded “no” because He, Jesus, was the power of the Father.
You are tripping over your keyboard and your memory my friend.
Jesus as a Son is in submission to His Father, true. They are actually submissive one to another as well as dependent one to another. It is a beautiful and perfect relationship and it has always existed and will continue to always exist.
lu
Terraricca,
You are right, men of God act differently than those who do not believe that Jesus is more powerful than they are.WELL THERE SHOULD BE NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT FOR AFTER ALL HE HIS THE SON OF GOD AND I AM JUST A SINNER SON OF A MAN BORN BY THE WILL OF MAN BUT REBORN BY THE WILL OF GOD ,
BUT THE SON CANNOT BE MORE POWERFUL THAN HIS OWN FATHER ,THIS IS A FACT
LIGHTENUP………Jesus is lord of lords (adoni, a judge or human rulers of human judes and rulers) like king David, and other “human” rulers, while the LORD (ADONIA) MEANS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, AND IS OVER ALL THINGS, EVEN JESUS AND ALL OTHER lords (adoni’s).
The scripture you used reguarding We have one GOD, AND ONE lord (adoni) , you conventely left out “THE “MAN” JESUS THE CHRIST. Why did you leave out the words “THE MAN”, was it not because you do not believe Jesus was simply another human being, even though he said he was a son of man around eighty times.
You have fallen for what many here have, and that is to make the image of JESUS “DIFFERENT” from the rest of humanity. That is EXACTL WHAT SATAN WANT PEOPLE TO THINK, SO THEY WILL NOT IDENTIFY WITH JESUS AS A HUMAN BEING JUST AS THEY ARE. This DOCTRINE of “SEPERATION”, MAKING JESUS DIFFERENT FROM US WAS HIS PLAN right from the beginning, it moves JESUS TO A GOD LEVEL, and hides the effectiual working of the spirit of God in humanity. If your view of Jesus is as a GOD, and not an ordinary physical human being as we are , you simply miss the whole reason for his existence in the plan and will of God for all humanity.
If in your mind you view him as a GOD OF ANY KIND, YOU AS WELL AS ALL OTHERS HERE ARE FORMING AN “IMAGE” OF ANOTHER GOD. And are convicted of “IDOLATRY” and will be judged accordingly, you have all bought into the “LIE” SPOKEN of in 2ths2..and be ause of not “LOVING” THE TRUTH, THAT THERE IS “ONLY” “ONE” “TRUE” GOD. God has sent you a deluding spirit, in order to “believe that “LIE”.
GOD THE FATHER IS AGAINST ALL WHO MAKE OTHER GOD’S, big or little. No true christian, lead by the spirit of truth, can say they believe in any other God’s, but the “ONE” AND “ONLY” TRUE” GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
terarricca says:
BUT THE SON CANNOT BE MORE POWERFUL THAN HIS OWN FATHER ,THIS IS A FACT
What you miss is this:
The Son IS the power OF the Father. It is not a question of ‘if’ He is more powerful than the Father.Gene
Jesus IS the image of the invisible God. I didn’t have to invent Him as an image of God. Your problem is with scripture, not with me.Also, I believe that God, the Son, did become man so all your caring on about me not believing that He is a man is without merit. So, from now on, you cannot say that I don’t believe that Jesus became a man. If you keep saying that, it will show that you are not paying attention.
Also, you said:
Jesus is lord of lords (adoni, a judge or human rulers of human judes and rulers) like king David, and other “human” rulers,
Jesus said His kingdom was NOT of this world. All that is in heaven and on earth are under Jesus rule. He made all rulers.
Col 1:16…things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him</strong.>Time to rethink your position, Gene.
LU
terarricca says:
BUT THE SON CANNOT BE MORE POWERFUL THAN HIS OWN FATHER ,THIS IS A FACT
What you miss is this:
The Son IS the power OF the Father. It is not a question of ‘if’ He is more powerful than the Father.this view makes many writers of scriptures liars is it not ? yes and especially the son himself
MT 11:27 “ All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
MT 16:27 “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
LK 10:22 “ All things have been handed over to Me by My Father,
JN 3:13 “ No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man
JN 5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
like manner does not mean to be the originator of the works but the copier or imitator of it
terraricca,
Jesus is given the task because HE is the Father’s power to carry out the task. He always acts according to the Father’s will and the Father always carries out His will through His power-His own Son.The Father gives the vision, the Son carries it out. This is interdependence. The Father does not work apart from the Son, but instead, He works through the Son…hence the Son IS the power the Father works through. The Son IS the power of the Father.
Does the Father work apart from the Son’s cooperation? No.
Jesus said:
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.There is nothing that the Father does that is done without the Son. Jesus said whatever He sees the Father do, He is the one doing it. The Son carries out the vision of the Father. Once again, interdependence.
I am not speaking if gods in the sense that God is a god as I am well aware he is the one and only god. I am merely speaking of the word god. The word can has other definitions that do not god as God is god. The word god is not reserved to only mean god as God is god and some think it is. When you say so called gods then you make yourself to go by that misunderstanding.
It also makes it seem like you accusing God of wrongdoing since he is the one that calls both angels and certain human beings gods.
In summary, the word god is a word like any other and it is the context it is used in that tells which meaning is correct.
Kerwin, I don’t think we are disagreeing.
I understand that other beings even men are called gods and lords and they do exist, but i am merely speaking of what should be in the mind of a Christian as was in the mind of Lord Jesus Himself – there is only one true God, the Father.
I hear what you are saying and I understand the meaning of god to mean “mighty” and “rank” which is correct, just as “lords” exist such as landlords or royal lords. However, some emphasize that fact to make more than one true God exist which is not what Jesus taught. So, in that case Paul said:“we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, not all possess this knowledge.”
So, Paul is saying that there are two to a christian: First is the only true God YHWH the Father, and the second is the Lord Jesus Christ who is the mediator between the one true God and men (as a side note: a mediator is neither of the two parties he is mediating between).
I think we are agreeing, though I can Gene’s point also in a spiritual manner.
Gene
Jesus IS the image of the invisible God. I didn’t have to invent Him as an image of God. Your problem is with scripture, not with me.An image is not literally the thing that the image reflects. That is basic knowledge.
Jesus is the image of the invisible God. He is not God himself, that is clear.
You can’t have it both ways. He is either the image or God who is the original.
Where was it that you asked me if Jesus had power ‘over God’ and where was it that I said that Jesus didn’t have power over God implying that God had power over Him?
It went straight over your head then.
I will explain it to you. I quoted your post to Terr. Then requoted it but basically replaced it with God and Jesus (which was fitting) to see if what you implied correlated worked with your understanding of God and Jesus. There was a contradiction and I pointed it out. Read it again with your contradiction in view.
Here is the post for your convenience. Note how I use your point and apply it to God and Jesus. Notice how your point contradicts even your own view of God and Jesus, thus showing your contradictory teaching and lack of logic.
https://heavennet.net/forums/topic/for-the-lord-your-god-is-god-of-gods/page/6/#post-788597
If you still do not get my point, then leave it. It likely will not be lost on others who read it.
Does that make you feel better when you belittle those who understand Christ differently than you?
Have you considered this:
Matt 7 2For you will be treated as you treat others.a The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.
Perhaps you are new in the Lord, eh?
And no, it is not 1 Peter 1:1.
I wonder why you become defensive? I merely quoted as you did with proof to prove the point. I simply spoke like you spoke, but if you wish to pass condemnation, be my guest. However, you ll be doing it hypocritically.
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
There is nothing that the Father does that is done without the Son. Jesus said whatever He sees the Father do, He is the one doing it. The Son carries out the vision of the Father. Once again, interdependence.
With that logic then are we apart of God too? Because God would not be God without created subjects to call him God right? So hes dependent on us too right? Of course not. The Son carries out the Fathers orders, yes, but he is not dependant on him to create. The Son was brought forth for that very purpose (christ is wisdom according to Paul and wisdom was formed as said by Solomon in the proverbs)… you are using unmerited assumptions for your argument.
Also just as you said, whatever the Son sees the Father DO… The son cant copy what the Father is doing if the Son was always the one doing it… can he?
ANASTAS
god does not depend on his created things ;
Ge 6:5 The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
Ge 6:6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
Ge 6:7 So the LORD said, “””“I will wipe mankind, whom I have created,””” from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.we are here for Noah was a righteous man ;so get your ack together and start to learn the truth ,in scriptures not in your imagination ;
ANASTAS
god does not depend on his created things ;
Ge 6:5 The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
Ge 6:6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
Ge 6:7 So the LORD said, “””“I will wipe mankind, whom I have created,””” from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.we are here for Noah was a righteous man ;so get your act together and start to learn the truth ,in scriptures not in your imagination ;
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