For Jammin

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ May 11 2012,21:44)

Loaded questions cannot be answered 1. or 2.
they must first be unloaded.

There is nothing “loaded” about jammin's question, Ed. The answer is #2.

May 13, 2012 at 9:00 am#297716

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,10:30)

Quote (Ed J @ May 11 2012,21:44)

Loaded questions cannot be answered 1. or 2.
they must first be unloaded.

There is nothing “loaded” about jammin's question, Ed. The answer is #2.

Hi Mike,

You 'think' there is nothing loaded in the questions you ask too,
but that simply is not the case; that is why I started this thread.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

May 13, 2012 at 9:01 am#297717

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,10:30)

Quote (Ed J @ May 11 2012,21:44)

Loaded questions cannot be answered 1. or 2.
they must first be unloaded.

There is nothing “loaded” about jammin's question, Ed. The answer is #2.

Hi Mike,

The loaded part is attempting to disassociate choice #1, but
I agree that choice #2 is the essence of what the verse says.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

May 13, 2012 at 2:46 pm#297755

Blocked

Okay Ed.

But now that you've directly answered jammin's question with “#2”, let's see where the discussion goes from here.

jammin, Ed answered #2, so now what was the point you were trying to make with that question?

May 13, 2012 at 3:25 pm#297758

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,01:47)

Quote (jammin @ May 10 2012,22:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2012,11:30)

I assume that you agree with scripture that there exists only ONE Omniscient Creator of All Things, right? And that One is called “God Most High”, right?

Do you think Jesus IS that One…………….or the Son OF that One? It has to be one of the two, not both.

Jesus can either BE God Almighty, or he can be the Son OF God Almighty, who also shares a divine, spirit nature WITH his Father, God Almighty.

Which choice do the scriptures bear out:
1. God Most High?
2. Son OF God Most High?

mike

you dont understand what you are saying

il give you an exmple,

you and your father have the same nature ,MAN

the nature of man is not eternal. man is created
the nature of man is not all powerful. man is limited
the nature of man is not all knowing. man is limited
etc

do you agree?

jammin,

I agree that you and your father share the same nature. But you can either BE the same being as your father, or you can be the son OF your father that shares a nature with your father. So which one are you:
1. The same being as your father?
2. The son OF your father?

Also, all powerful, all knowing, and from eternity are not a part of someone's “nature”. If they were, then Jesus couldn't be said to share God's nature, because Jesus is NOT all powerful, all knowing, or from eternity, as this scripture confirms:
Micah 5 NIV
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”

4 He will stand and shepherd his flock
in the strength of the LORD,
in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.

Jesus had an ORIGIN, jammin. And even after being exalted to the highest place, he still rules in the STRENGTH OF JEHOVAH, HIS GOD. So he is neither from eternity, nor all powerful. (This scripture brings up another point: Can God Almighty be the God OF God Almighty? Does God Almighty have a God of His own? Only in Bizarro World would that make any sense. )

Please give me a direct answer to my original question, jammin. You have been hounding Ed for weeks because he hasn't answered your question with one of your choices. I have now given you the only two choices there are, please pick one of them. According to the scriptures, is Jesus:
1. God Most High?
2. The Son OF God Most High?

im not my father mike.. but we have the same nature, MAN>

my father is not all powerful, not all knowing , not eternal and that is also my nature.

God is all powerful, eternal, all knowing.
Christ is also eternal, all knowing, all powerful etc etc.

ALL KNOWING
John 21:17

New Living Translation (NLT)

17 A third time he asked him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt that Jesus asked the question a third time. He said, “Lord, you know everything.

ALL POWERFUL AND ETERNAL
rev 1.8
Young's Literal Translation
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'

rev 1 (WE)
8 The Lord God says, `I am the First and the Last. I am the beginning and the ending. I live now. I always have lived, and I will come again.I have all power.'

Gills exposition of the entire bible
I am Alpha and Omega,…. These are the words of Christ himself, appearing at once, and confirming what John had said of him, concerning his person, offices, and future coming…

John 1:1
(WE)

1 The Word already was, way back before anything began to be. The Word and God were together. The Word was God.

Christ is eternal and all powerful (most high God by “nature”)

micah 5 talks about his human nature. remember that christ became flesh.

for your question, my answer is both

Christ is God by nature. and the nature of God is all powerful. Christ is almighty (rev 1.8)

he is the son of God the father. his father is God most high by “nature”.

God by nature means you are really GOD! you have all the attributes of GOD bec you are GOD by nature.

Christ is God by nature!he is really GOD!
Philippians 2:6

Amplified Bible (AMP)

6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God]

May 13, 2012 at 3:27 pm#297759

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,01:46)

Okay Ed.

But now that you've directly answered jammin's question with “#2”, let's see where the discussion goes from here.

jammin, Ed answered #2, so now what was the point you were trying to make with that question?

thanks mike.

edj, now you answered number 2.
therefore you agree that you do not exist in the form of GOD or you are not GOD by nature BUT YOU MIGHT BE PARTAKERS BY DIVINE NATURE.. meaning, you can participate in the “LIFE OF GOD”

2 Peter 1:4

The Message (MSG)
Don't Put It Off
3-4Everything that goes into a life of pleasing God has been miraculously given to us by getting to know, personally and intimately, the One who invited us to God. The best invitation we ever received! We were also given absolutely terrific promises to pass on to you—your tickets to participation in the life of God after you turned your back on a world corrupted by lust.

thank you for that answer.

May 13, 2012 at 4:21 pm#297772

Participant

Quote (jammin @ May 14 2012,02:27)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,01:46)

Okay Ed.

But now that you've directly answered jammin's question with “#2”, let's see where the discussion goes from here.

jammin, Ed answered #2, so now what was the point you were trying to make with that question?

thanks mike.

thank you for that answer.

Hi Jammin,

How can you say I agree to something,
when I don't even know what you mean?
What does “GOD by Nature” even mean?

Since I've put on the “New Man”, the divine nature
which you may partake of someday reflects my being.

Your misconceptions do not serve you well.
here's what Phil 2:5-6 really says…

2:5 τουτο γαρ φρονεισθω εν υμιν ο και εν χριστω ιησου
2:6 ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω

(Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus:
2:6 In the form that God exists, think it not robbery to be considered equal.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

May 13, 2012 at 4:25 pm#297773

Blocked

Hi jammin,

Does it seem a necessary statement for one to say, “God exists with the nature of God” ? Of course not, because it is a given that God Himself would have the nature of God.

So when it is said that we might partake in God's nature, it is clear to all that the meaning is not that we will actually BE God Himself, right?

Why then can't you use that same common sense when it comes to Phil 2? If it is said that Jesus was existing in the form (or even “with the nature”) OF God, shouldn't it be clear from that very statement that Jesus was not the God in whose form he existed?

For example, if it was said that Jesus had the power OF God, then it would be clear that Jesus is NOT the God he had the power OF.

Or if it was said that Jesus knows all the things God knows, then it would be clear that Jesus is NOT the God he knows as much as.

Think about it.

May 13, 2012 at 4:33 pm#297776

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,03:25)

Hi jammin,

Does it seem a necessary statement for one to say, “God exists with the nature of God” ? Of course not, because it is a given that God Himself would have the nature of God.

So when it is said that we might partake in God's nature, it is clear to all that the meaning is not that we will actually BE God Himself, right?

For example, if it was said that Jesus had the power OF God, then it would be clear that Jesus is NOT the God he had the power OF.

Or if it was said that Jesus knows all the things God knows, then it would be clear that Jesus is NOT the God he knows as much as.

Think about it.

phil 2.6 is not the same as 2 pt 1.4

phil 2.6 talks about the attributes of GOD
Philippians 2:6

Amplified Bible (AMP)

6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God],

while
2 pet 1.4 talks about the participation in the life of GOD!
2 Peter 1:4

The Message (MSG)
Don't Put It Off
3-4Everything that goes into a life of pleasing God has been miraculously given to us by getting to know, personally and intimately, the One who invited us to God. The best invitation we ever received! We were also given absolutely terrific promises to pass on to you—your tickets to participation in the life of God after you turned your back on a world corrupted by lust.

meaning,

Geneva Study Bible

{4} Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the {e} divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

(4) An explanation of the former sentence, declaring the causes of so great benefits, that is, God and his free promise, from which all these benefits proceed, I say, these most excellent benefits, by which we are delivered from the corruption of this world, (that is, from the wicked lusts which we carry about in us) and are made like God himself.

(e) By the divine nature he means not the substance of the Godhead, but the partaking of those qualities, by which the image of God is restored in us.

May 13, 2012 at 4:34 pm#297777

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ May 14 2012,03:21)

Quote (jammin @ May 14 2012,02:27)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,01:46)

Okay Ed.

But now that you've directly answered jammin's question with “#2”, let's see where the discussion goes from here.

jammin, Ed answered #2, so now what was the point you were trying to make with that question?

thanks mike.

thank you for that answer.

Hi Jammin,

How can you say I agree to something,
when I don't even know what you mean?
What does “GOD by Nature” even mean?

Since I've put on the “New Man”, the divine nature
which you may partake of someday reflects my being.

Your misconceptions do not serve you well.
here's what Phil 2:5-6 really says…

(Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus:
2:6 In the form that God exists, think it not robbery to be considered equal.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

you chose number 2 and that is enough for me edj.

i do not need your further explanation LOL

May 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm#297779

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,09:25)

micah 5 talks about his human nature. remember that christ became flesh.

How can it be talking about his human nature when, from Micah's time on earth, his origins were from the distant PAST? Jesus didn't become flesh until 2000 years AFTER Micah said his origins were from “days of antiquity”. Your answer doesn't add up to what the scriptures says.

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,09:25)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Which choice do the scriptures bear out:
1. God Most High?
2. Son OF God Most High?

for your question, my answer is both

So Jesus IS the very God he is the Son OF? Surely you must be joking.

Mark 5:7
He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won’t torture me!”

Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.

Here are two scriptures that teach Jesus is the Son of the Most High God. Where is the scripture that says Jesus IS the Most High God?

(Also, do you suppose the demon in Mark 5:7 was asking Jesus to swear to HIMSELF that he wouldn't torture him? )

May 13, 2012 at 4:45 pm#297784

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:33)

phil 2.6 talks about the attributes of GOD
Philippians 2:6

Amplified Bible (AMP)

6 Who, although being essentially one with God ………….

If any person is “one with God”, then he cannot possibly BE the God he is “one with“.

John 17:11
Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—those you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Surely Jesus is not PRAYING TO HIS OWN GOD for us to actually BECOME God Almighty Himself, right?

So apparently, being “one with God” doesn't mean that you are God Himself, right?

May 13, 2012 at 4:46 pm#297785

Participant

let me post again the verse

Micah 5:2

The Message (MSG)

2But you, Bethlehem, David's country,
the runt of the litter—
From you will come the leader
who will shepherd-rule Israel.
He'll be no upstart, no pretender.
His family tree is ancient and distinguished.

Scofield Reference Notes

[1] everlasting

Cf. Isa 7:13,14 9:6,7. The “child” was born in Bethlehem, but the “Son” was “from everlasting.”

do you believe that christ became flesh mike?

May 13, 2012 at 4:50 pm#297788

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,03:45)

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:33)

phil 2.6 talks about the attributes of GOD
Philippians 2:6

Amplified Bible (AMP)

6 Who, although being essentially one with God ………….

If any person is “one with God”, then he cannot possibly BE the God he is “one with“.

John 17:11
Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—those you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Surely Jesus is not PRAYING TO HIS OWN GOD for us to actually BECOME God Almighty Himself, right?

So apparently, being “one with God” doesn't mean that you are God Himself, right?

how many time have i told you that Christ is not the father. the father is not the son.

but THEY HAVE THE SAME NATURE, GOD!

exmple. you and your father are two persons but you are one in nature, MAN!

the nature of man is limited. you are not all powerful, not all knowing, not eternal etc etc.
that is the nature of man mike.

you and your father have these attributes as man!

but about the nature of GOD – all knowing, all poweful, eternal etc etc

the father is God by nature.

the son is also God by nature.

May 13, 2012 at 4:50 pm#297789

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:34)

you chose number 2 and that is enough for me edj.

Really? That's it?

Ed chose the scriptural answer to your question. I was expecting that you were somehow going to use his answer as “proof” that Jesus is the very God he is the Son of.

What a let down.

May 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm#297792

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:50)

you are not all powerful………..

Nor is Jesus:

Micah 5:4
He will stand and shepherd his flock
in the strength of………….the LORD his God.

If Jesus was all-powerful, he would not be ruling in the strength of his God, but in his OWN strength.

Nor does God Most High have a God of his own.

jammin, your unscriptural doctrine seems to be based in nonsense.

May 13, 2012 at 4:59 pm#297797

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:46)

His family tree is ancient and distinguished.

Lord have mercy, jammin.

Are faulty, man-made, butcherings of scripture truly what you base your scriptural understandings upon?

Micah 5:2 says NOTHING about any “family tree”; and to base your understanding upon such frivolous, doctored translations is to cheat yourself of a true understanding of God's word. I feel sorry for you that you miss so much of God's truth by following the words of men who have ALTERED the scriptures.

May 13, 2012 at 5:02 pm#297799

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2012,03:59)

Quote (jammin @ May 13 2012,10:46)

His family tree is ancient and distinguished.

Lord have mercy, jammin.

Are faulty, man-made, butcherings of scripture truly what you base your scriptural understandings upon?

bec you do not understand what the bible says mike.

answer my question.

do you believe that christ became flesh?

May 13, 2012 at 5:04 pm#297800

Blocked

Absolutely I believe that Jesus Christ became flesh and dwelled among mankind with the glory of the only begotten Son of God that he was.

Will you now address my “Micah 5:4” post?

May 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm#297801