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D4T: Lightenup, I have to wonder once again when some are upholding Scripture that the sun has a circuit and that at one time the sun stood still which goes against what is commonly being taught now,
Mike, there are probably a number of explanations that could describe this. Pole Shift perhaps being one of them. Although I cannot be bothered visualising how this can happen exactly, I am just saying there are bound to be a number of ways to make the sun appear still from our perspective. Besides, God is sovereign and all powerful.
Translation: No Mike, I guess it couldn’t have been the Father speaking those words through Jesus after all. I was mistaken. And now that you mention it, it couldn’t have been the Spirit of the Son/anointing/Word either, since none of the crowd to whom Jesus was speaking had seen this Spirit. I guess it must have been Jesus speaking… just like the Apostle John said all along.
lol. You just said what everyone is thinking. lol.
T8: From our perspective Mike, the sun has a circuit and that is the point.
That is indeed the point. The people who spoke about its circuit were not only looking at things from their perspective, but were inspired by God to write what they did, right? Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of the law and the prophets would fade away, right? And Paul said that all scripture was inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, right?
T8: So from God’s point of view, does the sun have a circuit? I would say no.
But what are you basing that “no” on? Because it was God who told Moses the design of the world… about the two lights He placed in the firmament, right? And it was God who told Job that the earth has foundations and footings, right? And it was God who told David that He holds the pillars of the earth firm, right? And although we’re not explicitly told, I think it’s a fair assumption that David was speaking by Spirit when he spoke of the sun running its appointed circuit. So from God’s point of view, I would say yes. You say no based on things men have told you about the place we live. I say yes based on what God has told us about the place we live.
T8: Hey Mike.
I have read a number of times where you say we haven’t debunked some of your points.
Correct. We haven’t. That doesn’t mean you are correct of course, but that I do not have an answer or haven’t the time to research those points. But will get there eventually I imagine. Further, you say I bring up new points not raised by posting debunk videos. But you do the same thing. In supporting the hypothesis of a Flat Earth, you bring up new points. In debunking the Flat Earth, I bring up new points too. And why? Because I stumble across them and think they have a valid argument, so why not post them here. It is not about diverting away from points I have answered from you. Not at all.
Finally, debunk videos are the quickest and easiest way to address some points. Remember, we all do not have a lot of time on our hands to go full time on this.I am sure you agree with that.
This thread didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to. I thought I’d go through some evidence – one point at a time – and we’d actually discuss that evidence before moving on to more of mine, or some of yours. The last thing I wanted was to be all over the place talking about the ISS, the moon landings, Sandy Hook, and everything else under the sun. 🙂
It’s hard for me to not answer though, when someone brings up a, “Well, what about this then?” But I’m going to try to stay on point from now on, and stop responding to Gene’s posts about images from space, and yours about Antarctica. Kathi has schooled me about having a full moon in the daytime (which btw was my own argument – not representative of flat earthers in general as far as I know), but there are many other things. Right now, I want to finish our discussion about that Apollo image… since we already began it. I’m awaiting her response, and would like your input on it too.
Then, I definitely want to discuss the moon eclipsing from the top down next. I already have a screenshot ready to go, and I bought some foam balls for the video I’m heading off to make right now. But I know you guys are busy, and getting so spread out here isn’t any easier for you than it is for me. So let’s buckle down and focus in one only one thing at a time. Full moon in the daytime has been resolved. Working on the Apollo 17 image now. Next up from me, the top-down eclipse.
MIKE said: But what are you basing that “no” on? Because it was God who told Moses the design of the world…
Simply put, the sun doesn’t go around God. He is talking about it from our perspective. God is not only eternal, but is not a man living in the Earth. He is not subject to his own creation. He is not even a servant of time. The truth is what God sees. He sees everything. You know the story about the elephant. One person saw the tail and the other a trunk and they argued for the rest of the age over the description of this animal. God sees the whole elephant so to speak.
This thread didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to. I thought I’d go through some evidence – one point at a time – and we’d actually discuss that evidence before moving on to more of mine, or some of yours.
Yes I see your point. The thing is you cannot force structure in a topic, especially if it has lots of posts. What I tend to do with the time I have allocated here is to visit the last page and go through the points and try an answer what looks easy to answer. Then if I have time, I might tackle a question that requires more time and research. If I have more time, I will go back some pages which is exactly what I am doing now and answer. I realise this system sometimes means I miss whole pages, but sometimes I see posts quoted and it looks interesting, so I look for that page.
The debate section is all about format though. I personally like the Yes / No rule in a debate. You get one question the other person answers yes or no in a post. Then in a later post they can explain their position as to why they answered yes or no. However, I have found that people are generally not honest enough and do not comply. I did offer this option to you. We could go one question at a time. You setup the debate and I will join. And keep this thread as a general one that lacks certain structure.
Then, I definitely want to discuss the moon eclipsing from the top down next.
This seems a sticking point for you. My quick answer is I don’t know, but I imagine the video is either fake or edited. If not, then there is a perfect explanation that could be demonstrated using a 3D model or simulation. The problem is no one seems to have done this yet and posted a video on the Net about it. Most simulations, animations, and models are 2D and address basic points. But the third dimension doesn’t address the fact that the Earth moon and sun are not always in the same plane, and we see little investigation into rare events or possibilities using 3D models. I guess there isn’t a lot of demand to investigate this to the nth degree. And to be honest with you it is too hard to imagine the whole thing myself. I don’t have the mind of Nikola Tesla, who needed no model to test his inventions. They appeared before his eyes as functioning realities that he could stop and start as though they were really there. When I see that video you posted, I do not come to the conclusion the Earth is flat or sphere.
Hi Mike,
Do you think that the listeners would have to have seen the Spirit to understand?
How odd.
I do not think any of them understood what they were told till their minds were enlightened at Pentecost and the Spirit brought back to their memories what had been spoken to them. That is how it works.
Do you not think it incredible that the writers of the 4 gospels recalled in such perfect detail, that every jot and tittle is honoured, when they were written some years later?
The words burned themselves into their memories as further proof of the power of the Spirit sent from God
Hi Mike,
Perhaps John can help you.
He understood what it meant to see and touch the Word.
1 Jn 1
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the WORD OF LIFE- and the LIFE was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the ETERNAL LIFE, which was with the Father and manifested to us- what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with a His Son, Jesus Christ.
At the start of his gospel he told us about Jesus that
’In him was LIFE, and the LIFE was the Light of men”
IN Christ Jesus was the SPIRIT OF LIFE , the Word that was with the Father and which manifested on earth so that men could fellowship with the Father and the Son in that SPIRIT.
T8: From our perspective Mike, the sun has a circuit and that is the point.
Mike said: That is indeed the point. The people who spoke about its circuit were not only looking at things from their perspective, but were inspired by God to write what they did, right?
Did you not realise that all believe from our perspective that the sun has a circuit and goes around the earth. No one is denying that. What science has discovered is that this perspective is caused by a globe earth orbiting the sun. This model explains everything and sorts out the problem with wandering stars too.
Then there is the proof of the globe model vs that it is all fake and part of a massive conspiracy so big it defies all common sense and reason. If the Earth was not a globe there would be too many people involved in the conspiracy and yet not even one person from the Globe Earth Conspiracy Group has come forth and told the truth. Not even one. And the lie is so big they still send fake satellites and rockets into space and fake people go to Antarctica on fake expeditions and yacht races in the Southern Ocean fake the time it takes to get from city to city in the Southern Hemisphere. Wow, surely there is an easier way to deceive people than this?
t8, Mike, D4t,
The Sun does have a circuit…around the Milky Way. The moon orbits the earth, the earth orbits the sun, the sun orbits the Milky Way.
The galactic year, also known as a cosmic year, is the duration of time required for the Sun to orbit once around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year
Did you guys know this?
Mike,
Thank you for your acknowledgement. Glad I could help. Now on to the Apollo image. Which one, the “wet flag” picture?
Mike,
I think the Apollo image you want to talk more about is the one of Astronaut Schmitt.
Astronaut Gene Cernan took that picture. They were on the moon in a valley, the Valley of Taurus Littrow which was surrounded by the Taurus Mountains, thus you can see the moon MOUNTAIN in the background of the picture as well as the earth overhead…you are not looking at a flat area of the moon behind the astronaut.
Read this:
Apollo 17 landing site is in a spectacular location called The Valley of Taurus-Littrow on the southeastern edge of the Sea of Serenity (Mare Serenitatis). Sometime about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago, a mountain-sized asteroid or comet hit the Moon and blasted out a basin nearly seven hundred kilometers in diameter. Around the rim of Serenitatis, great blocks of rock were pushed out and up, forming a ring of mountains. In places, the blocks quickly fell again, and left radial valleys among the mountains. Taurus-Littrow is one such valley, located just south of Littrow Crater in the southwestern Taurus Mountains ( 0.9 Mb ) that form the highlands east of Serenitatis.
So if I was standing in front of a mountain and the sun was overhead and you were laying on the ground with a camera, you could get me in the picture with the mountain top and the sun. Please acknowledge that you understand this or not.
So you know, I just spent a lot of time finding this information for you and it is 2:36 am here. I hope you appreciate this information.
Goodnight Phoenix 🙂
The Sun does have a circuit…around the Milky Way. The moon orbits the earth, the earth orbits the sun, the sun orbits the Milky Way.
Yeah, I realise that. I wonder if galaxies orbit too. Possibly around the Most High. Galaxies could be the heavens and where the throne is could be in the highest heaven.
However, I think the circuit is probably talking about the sun from our perspective. Scripture is written with our perspective in mind and I have noticed that God doesn’t reveal much about other things he does, just what pertains to us.
You can visit Antarctica anytime
Two million dollars?!? Uh, T8… remember when I said I’d pay? Yeah, about that… 🙂
Guess what? After 80+ years of ongoing scientific exploration, we’ve just discovered new mountain ranges and canyons on that icy continent. And it turns out they’re right next to the south pole for heavens sake!
Scroll down half way through the article, and you’ll see a graphic that shows a “GPS dead zone” in the middle of the continent. Really? I thought there were 13,000 satellites orbiting the earth right now. Why do we still have “dead zones” in the southern oceans and in Antarctica? Why does Google Earth show us pastel paintings instead of what Antarctica really looks like?
What a tangled web we weave…
Think logically about this Mike. If the FE was true, the area could never be logistically surveilled due to its immense size. First, look at this quote I scraped off the Web:
Some like to assert that everybody on Earth could be fit into the State of Texas, using logic as follows. The area of Texas is about 262,000 mi2. Dividing this figure by the current human population of 7 billion leaves each person with less than 100 square meters, a small plot the size of a big room about 10 m x 10 m.
Okay, if this is true, then the human race could fit into Texas. For the sake of the argument, let’s ignore roads schools etc. Now compare Texas to the ice wall on a Flat Earth. Here is a map to remind us. Conclusion, there are not enough human beings to stop people from going there. Seriously, you can go there. Boats sail our southern shores for fishing all the time. No one will stop you from going to Antarctica and even if there are laws against it to preserve the environment and stop oil extraction etc, no one will stop you because they will not know you are going there. What will stop you is the climate. So you need to be the kinda guy who climbs in the Himalayas like Sir Edmund Hillary.
As for satellites, not all are equipped to scan under the ice sheet. Come on, that is a given. As for you not being able to afford 2 million bucks. What? Alright, I will donate $250 toward the bill.
Could we all agree that “you shall not murder”?
Could we all agree that our children deserves the same or better protection than our politicians?
Why then do we send them to places where protection is prohibited?
And why then is the force of the Federal Government brought against the people to exert money to pay for the murder of millions of babies!
Something is indeed wrong here.God is being gracious to the US. You have Mr Trump. I’m serious.
Full moon and sun in the same moment
When I get your response to the full moon in daylight video I debunked, we can move on to another point.
Lost track of this. So many posts here, would take ages to find it.
I will start from scratch with a little story. I went to Auckland in NZ when 1999 clocked over to 2000 AD. I think we were the first to see the new millenium although I think 2001 is technically that. Anyway, I took a photo of a full moon over the city skyline and I know the sun was behind me. The photo is clearly taken in daylight with the moon visible. I took the shot using slide film and scanned the slide myself, so it is not the best quality.
Now, I know I read somewhere or watched a video where this does happen, but only briefly and yes, that was the case with my photo. The moon was fricken huge because it just came up from the horizon and was rising fast at the same moment the sun was dipping down into the opposite horizon behind me. You can see this from the reddish colour in the photo and the fact that it is not night. But why is this impossible on a Globe Earth again? This doesn’t spell doom to me for the Globe Earth.
Again, I am not Nikola Tesla and cannot play the animation accurately in my head, the 3D model that is. The 2D is easy to imagine, but is not totally accurate because of the missing dimension and the knowledge that all 3 bodies are not always in the same plane. When I try to imagine it, I see it as the sun not being directly behind me, but is perhaps behind me to my right, thus allowing light to shine on the full moon or on the near full moon. Maybe if the Earth was flat my right horizon would be too high and block the sun, but the earth is curved, so it could be lower and thus the sun can let light shine toward the moon face. I don’t really know, but I cannot see how a globe earth is debunked exactly. Don’t give me 2D videos or simulations please. Just 3D that accurately takes into account the curvature in the missing dimension.
The galactic year, also known as a cosmic year, is the duration of time required for the Sun to orbit once around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year
Did you guys know this?I was aware that the sun rotated around the galaxy. Wasn’t clued up on how long it took though. Because of this, the North Star would not be the north star anymore at some point if I remembered correctly.
When speaking about the Scripture that says the sun has a circuit wouldn’t that be false or a lie if the earth really had the circuit around the sun? Regardless of our perspective shouldn’t the truth be represented?
In other words, do the scriptures tell the truth or tell us what we perceive?
We can have our perception in the scriptures, I believe, but not at the expense of truth. There can be dual meanings of words as in; to “have eyes but not see”. Where the meaning of “see” is obviously “understand” and not just sight. This is an established literary device. The two are intimately related.
What duality of meaning would there be in the sun having a circuit? Was it written just to deceive us or comfort us in our deception? I think not.
Ecc 1:4-6 A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. 5 Also, the sun rises and the sun sets;
And hastening to its place it rises there again. 6 Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns.Once again it is the sun that is said to have movement and the the winds move on a “circular” course. Remember, at this time the trade winds were not known except to those who understood Scripture. Why would this truth be mixed with the supposed lie that the sun moves around? If it was not just a perception issue about the winds, why with the sun?
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