Mikeboll’s belief in a flat world

[Proclaimer]

So then King David was just confused about us living on a spinning ball, and assumed from his viewpoint that it was the sun moving around the earth?  Is that it?

He wasn’t confused because if the earth goes around the sun, this also means the sun is going round the earth from our vantage point. This is what he saw and what we see and that is obvious. But he didn’t have space and satellite technology or access to it, and he didn’t sail the circumference of the Southern Ocean, and  he didn’t see lots of other  things we can see today. He didn’t see the Internet, the inside of a volcanic crater, or the Mariana Trench.

King David didn’t see New Zealand in the known world he lived in. But I can testify that this country exists and I am not a paid shill either.

[mikeboll64]

Kathi:  Mike,

Regarding Astronaut Chris and his less than perfect wording, that’s all I believe it was. I still got the point and the context was that the ISS was in space talking to students in CA which was across the States from where the students were.

Fair enough.

Kathi: If you want to be literal, 24 hour days are always based on the orientation of the earth to the sun which didn’t exist for 3 of the “days.” Evening and morning also, literally speaking, are oriented to the sun. Now, to be clear, I am not opposed to there being seven 24 hour periods (God can do that) but I am open to there being a more general way of interpreting that to refer to a sequence of events. This happened first, then this, then this…etc.

Glad to hear that bolded part, because it is what the scriptures clearly teach.  And like I told Ed, I simply don’t know how God measured the evening/morning/days 3 times before creating the sun.  Maybe He held His hand over the flat disk earth and shaded it from the Jesus-light He created on day one to make 12 hours of darkness.  🙂

All I know is that He created the earth on day one, the firmament on day two, land and vegetation on day three, and the sun, moon and stars on day four.  I know this because it is the only honest way to read Genesis 1.  And I know this occurred a little over 6000 years ago.  I know this from the Bible and from the observational scientific evidence.  I swear to you that there is absolutely nothing in the entire realm of scientific knowledge that contradicts the scriptural account.  Nothing that says stars come first.  Nothing that says 4.5 billion years.  Nothing that says any kind of common descent evolution occurred on any scale whatever.  These are all lies we’ve been told by men trying to hide God from us.

[Proclaimer]

The $1 million dollar challenge to settle the Flat Earth debate

@dig4truth

T8: “Guys why not start up a GoFundMe page where Flat Earthers can donate to, to build a rocket. Then blast that thing into the firmament, and create another large crack in it. Then tell the Ball Earthers to explain how there are now two cracks in the firmament. Once they give a reasonable answer, then show them the video of how it happened.”

Dig4Truth: No reason to do that when there has been operation “Dominic” and operation “Fishbowl” already. It’s interesting to note that “Dominic” means “Of the Lord”. So we have high altitude nuclear missles being launched under the names “Fishbowl” “Of the Lord”. You can’t make this stuff up.

If you haven’t heard of these I would do a little research on them. These came after operation “Highjump” which I suppose is a fitting name for Antartica.

What about this for an idea. Start up  Gofundme page for a yacht and crew. That won’t cost as much as a rocket perhaps. The average team in the Volvo Ocean race spends about $20 million, but you could do it for 2 million or maybe 1 million because you are not trying to win a race and you are sailing the southern portion only. Once the money is donated by the many millions of Flat Earthers chipping in say $1 each, you first work out the exact route and how many km it will take from Auckland to Fremantle, to Punta del Esta, and back to Auckland. If you end up doing double or more km on that trip, then boom, you have your own proof of the Globe Earth. If you do the amount of km that the Flat Earth suggests you would do, then boooooom, you have evidence that can be tested and verified by others. Seriously, this or something like this needs to happen. One million dollars is cheap if it delivers millions of Flat Earthers from deception right. And it would especially good value if it delivered billions of Globe Earthers away from their belief. A win win because the truth would win and would only cost one million dollars or $1 each from every Flat Earther out there. Then Flat Earthers would have respect because they uncovered perhaps the biggest conspiracy out there. And Flat Earthers wouldn’t get called flattards anymore and would the respect they deserve. Plus if you organised it, you would be invited by the media for interviews and flown around the world at their expense and life would be pretty fun I would imagine.

https://www.gofundme.com/

[mikeboll64]

Kathi:  Also, Mike, I don’t know if you remember but I believe that day one of creation has to do in part by bringing forth the Son as the firstborn of all creation, begotten, not made…the Light of the world.

Yeah, I commented on your first post about that.  I said that the words “Let there be” in Genesis always refer to God bringing something into existence that didn’t already exist.  So I don’t think Jesus could be the “Let there be light”, because I believe he and the other sons of God existed a long time before God created the world.  If you consider Jesus as the wisdom in Proverbs 8 – as you know I do – then it seems clear to me that this wisdom existed way before God brought forth the earth.

Kathi:  The Light that sustained the upcoming creation was/is the Son and the Father…ultimately, no need for the sun to exist in order to sustain life, see the light that is given when there is no sun in Revelation. At that time there will be no more night, only day.

I hear ya, but in this case we already have the light.  We’re trying to figure out what caused the evening 3 times before the sun and moon were placed in the firmament and set on their appointed circuits.  🙂

[mikeboll64]

Nick:  Hi Mike,

Is THE DAY OF THE LORD one 24 hr day?

I already addressed that in a post earlier today… using that very phrase. Go back and find it.

[Proclaimer]

I hear ya, but in this case we already have the light.  We’re trying to figure out what caused the evening 3 times before the sun and moon were placed in the firmament and set on their appointed circuits.

If the sun is part of the heavens, then day 1. And if the sun appeared on day 4, then an atmosphere that light can penetrate allowing life to flourish.

Vantage points, context, and perspective. Remember, Rome crushed the whole Earth when in reality it was the Middle East and Europe, the known world. China still existed on the planet, but Rome never conquered them.

So when the sun rises, it rises even if the Earth is a globe and spins around the sun. It rises in that model and it sets.

Surely creation is designed for the sons of God, his children. So that is the perspective. The physical creation is not as important as those who dwell in creation. Written for us Mike. Written for them Mike, those in the Middle East at that time.

Remember Jesus said the Earth was like a wheat field. Try to see the language for what it is.

[mikeboll64]

Mike:  …only God knows the true heart of a person.

Nick:  Are you really offering yourself as…fit to judge the hearts of others?

 

[mikeboll64]

David: Hey mike,

don want to throw your conversation off.  Haven’t thought about any of his at all, but have a couple questions which perhaps you already addressed.

What is the purpose of this deception—with NASA and scientists and others deceiving others into thinking the earth is spherical?

And, what do we think of the other planets, and stars.  Are they flat as well?

can anyone buy a good telescope and see the space station?

Hey David, the purpose behind it is to hide God.  And not everyone proclaiming a ball earth is being deceptive.  The vast majority are just like I was, and simply believed and parroted the same information over and over.  Think about it, Neil DeGrasse Tyson hasn’t done any experiment to verify the existence of gravity. He’s never been to space, and he’s only seen the heavenly luminaries as we do: naked eye, magnifying lens, NASA CGI.  He only knows what he’s been taught about so-called stellar evolution, and even admits in one of his books that if stars weren’t up there in the sky, cutting edge science would have plenty of reasons that they can’t exist at all.  So does he know the earth is flat and is lying to the masses?  Not sure.  He might just be caught up in the same indoctrination we all received growing up.

There are no planets, in the sense of terrestrial objects people can land and walk on.  There are luminaries in the firmament that God created to separate the waters above from the waters below.  Whether any of these lights are spherical, I don’t know.  But they are all small and close, and Jesus said many of them will fall from the sky to the earth.

There is no space station as it has been described to us… nor could there be in the thermosphere where they say it’s more than hot enough to melt aluminum.  There are satellites, but they are attached to balloons and float over the earth on wind currents.  They can remain aloft for up to six months, and then they are retrieved.  Sometimes they crash to the earth, and are found with the balloons still attached to them.  Oh, and they have nothing to do with GPS or telecommunications.  Those are ground based systems, and were in use for years before they started saying they were putting metal devices in orbit around the earth.

[mikeboll64]

T8:  Where is your photo or video of the Flat Earth…

You took it, remember?  Game, set, match right there.  Don’t worry, there’s plenty more evidence to come.

[mikeboll64]

T8:  He wasn’t confused because if the earth goes around the sun, this also means the sun is going round the earth from our vantage point.

Then that is in fact your claim… that King David was in error because he didn’t have a space ship?  So where’s the answer to the last question?  (I knew I should have put the Yes/No/I Don’t Know at the end of those two posts!)  Let me ask again:

Is there anything IN THE SCRIPTURES that would indicate that David had it wrong?  Or does your evidence of this come from scientism?

[mikeboll64]

T8:  If the sun is part of the heavens, then day 1.And if the sun appeared on day 4…

It’s not, so day 4.  And we’re not told it “appeared” on day 4, but that God “made it” on day 4 and “placed it in the firmament” on day 4.

And thanks for reminding me… I almost forgot about your Rome analogy.  The fourth beast is different from the rest in that this one is not a military power, but a religio-political one.  And this power still exists, and has indeed covered every square inch of the earth.

[mikeboll64]

Let me know when the debate thread is up and running.

[Ed J]

Obviously if the word “day” is used with “evening and morning” it is in a literal sense. If it includes “day 1, 2, 3”, etc. it also is in a literal sense. If ANYONE has a problem with this reasoning please speak up.

Hi DigforTruth,

You need the sun and rotation of the Earth
for a Day and Night – according to the Heliocentric model of course

That means the first 3 DAYS

…and what is said in DAY 1 seems to fit the bill

[Ed J]

Hi Dig4,

And if the day can be 1000 years long what of your personal interpretation of morning and evening?

Hi Nick,

The 1,000 year reference could be a ref to in the day you eateth it you shall surly die…

Methuselah lived the longest – 969 years

[Ed J]

Ed: How do you boys explain the first three days with no sun?

Surely not by correcting God about which day He made the sun. 🙂 I can’t answer that, Eddy. I can only go by what we’ve been told in God’s written word. There was somehow light and 3 evenings and mornings before He created the sun. How that could be, I couldn’t say.

Hi Mike,

You are dismissing that God may be reiterating what Happened on Day 1, The sun and earth’s rotation

Look carefully again at Day 4 – THE FOCUS is the night time

…never lose sight of the focus of the verse

____________
God bless
Ed J

[AndrewAD]

Mike,

I’ve read on the net that the ISS can be seen with a telescope and the astronaut with Ham in the vid I do believe to be sincere. I don’t doubt that men have been to space/earth’s orbit or that the earth is round, but for various reasons I do have doubts about the moon landing. If the video you put up with the man from NASA is for real, saying that we’ve lost the technology to go through the Van Allen belt and the other claiming that they are still working on and hoping to go beyond earth’s orbit-as if they-NASA have never done this-forgetting the Apollo missions; this is very fishy indeed. It’s like how could technology like that be lost? it’s not like losing a two dollar bill or instructions to your crockpot!!  That seems as far fetched as dinosaurs aboard Noah’s ark!

Also the Apollo astronauts at the press conference-Armstrong, Aldrin and the other do seem rather lost and unprepared in their answers to the media. They certainly weren’t very convincing “devil’s masquerading as angels of light”. They certainly didn’t have their stories straight which seems good evidence of fiction, and their body language as pointed out just didn’t speak well.

I was surprised to see you say you didn’t think anyone under 65 still believed in the moon landing since everyone I’ve ever talked to about it, young or old does believe it and most have never heard anything to the contrary.  I also noticed someone on the thread brought up the private company that is planning to do trips to the moon which I heard about also. I really wonder and am curious to see if anything or what comes of this in my lifetime.

But regardless of what I or any of us believe I find this thread and conspiracy theories in general to be interesting. But what do you say to seeing the space station with a telescope if it’s not really up there? apparently people say they can.

[Dig4truth]

Ed: “You need the sun and rotation of the Earth for a Day and Night – according to the Heliocentric model of course That means the first 3 DAYS …and what is said in DAY 1 seems to fit the bill”

 

 

Hi Ed, you don’t need the rotation of the earth for a day if the sun is revolving over a stationary earth. You also don’t need the sun for a day if there is another light source.

Clearly God created (made) the sun on day 4 and placed it in the firmament. That is what the plain reading of the text says. That however is not what scientism says. So the question is who are you going to believe?

[Proclaimer]

Explaining the supposed Flat Earth photo

T8:  Where is your photo or video of the Flat Earth…
Mike: You took it, remember? Game, set, match right there. Don’t worry, there’s plenty more evidence to come.

As much as I would love to be the guy that took a photo of the Flat Earth and receive instant fame and perhaps a bit of fortune, what I most likely took was aided by atmospheric lensing and if not that, then by the following explanation:

1. The base of the mountains shape starts at 600 m, so the bottom 600 m doesn’t matter if it is hidden beyond the curvature;
2. The vantage point was 248 m high and 200 km away from the subject;
3. The subject mountain is 2,797 m high;
4. At 248 m high, the horizon if no distortion took place is 56 km;
5. The obscured part of the object is a whopping 1,622.32 m;
6. But 600 m needs to be taken away from the 1622 of obscured mountain shape  leaving around a nice tidy 1000 m of obscurity;
7. So, the 2797 m high mountain – 1000 m of shape obscurity = 1797 m of visible mountain which is also reflecting lots of light with the aid of surface snow;
8. This 1787 of visible mountain is most of the shape, but yes there is still the missing the bottom 1000 m of mountain shape to explain in this theory;
9. The missing 1000 m that does appear to be in the photo could actually be 1000 m of other hills that have been blended into the mountain because of the zoom lense effect. The zoom lense distorted the water and all the distance between me and the mountain squashing everything closer together, thus the 1000 m of extra data in the bottom of the photo could easily be on my side of the horizon and is overriding the missing 1000 m of the actual mountain. In other words, the bottom 1000 metres of the mountain and the top part of the mountain could actually have a distance of 150 km between them. Both the bottom part and top part could be blended into the mountain by the zoom effect, thereby becoming one shape that looks like the whole mountain. We do have snow to prove which part is the mountain itself and yes it usually doesn’t go all the way down, but I do not know on this particular day because I wasn’t at the base of the mountain that day. Regardless of where the snow line began, the effect would work on either.

   If the snow line was actually right down to the base of the mountain (Ohakune) that day, then I would know for sure that the bottom part of the mountain shape is not actually part of the mountain itself.

These are my two explanations for the photo. Perhaps both factors played a part, so that atmospheric lensing wasn’t so intense, thus requiring even less than 1000 m of the actual mountain shape missing. I can’t prove it either way, but suffice to say that I have seen distortions when looking at the peninsula in the photo from the coast to the point of low height constructions on there looking like highrise constructions. So the area has had strange atmospheric effects before and experienced by myself.

Now obviously the third option is the Earth is flat. Agreed, this explanation is valid if we ignore the context of living in the space age and Antarctic exploration and tourism etc. So let’s entertain that option for a moment. If true, now for a question:

If the Earth is flat and my photo was only possible because of that, then why is it that every other day you go up there when the conditions are clear, you cannot see the mountain?

I mean, even the Flat Earth model has to explain the photo. Why are there only two photos in existence on the Internet of Ruapehu from Paekakariki Hill when this is a very popular place to take photos from, when every winter it has snow, and the fact that photos from this vantage point are all over the Internet. So both models need to explain this regardless. I need to explain why I can see the mountain and you need to explain why people can’t see the mountain on most clear days in winter.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Paekakariki+Hill+View&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWqa_ElYTbAhUEyrwKHaZsDg0Q_AUoAXoECAAQAw&biw=1920&bih=974

[AndrewAD]

Hey Mike I just saw your answer to David about the space station but what of the people who say they can see it with a telescope? Just what is it they are really seeing if it’s not that?

[Proclaimer]

Could be a fly on the lense?

[Author]

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