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Guys why not start up a GoFundMe page where Flat Earthers can donate to, to build a rocket. Then blast that thing into the firmament, and create another large crack in it. Then tell the Ball Earthers to explain how there are now two cracks in the firmament. Once they give a reasonable answer, then show them the video of how it happened.
T8: I’m sure heaps of people have done it. Just that you wouldn’t get famous for doing it because it is a mere extra step in an experiment that is famous.
What are you talking about? The “famous” experiment couldn’t determine the shape of the earth one way or the other. Don’t you think the third shadow experiment – the one that COULD actually prove a curved earth – would become the more famous of the two, since the former experiment was nonsensical and proved nothing?
T8: However, for me, this is something Flat Earthers should do. Most of the populace have no reason to perform this experiment because they have a wealth of other data that suggests a globe…
Dude, what is with you lately? I have to keep re-explaining stuff to you that should be very simple. Do you understand that if the sun is close, it doesn’t matter how many sticks we place in the ground?
Do you understand that nobody has ever done the “three stick” experiment for the sole reason that its results would be the same as the two stick experiment, ie: the sun is far and the earth is curved, or the sun is close and the earth is flat.
In order for any stick-shadow experiment to verify anything, we first have to know whether the sun is close or far away. If it is close, as we believe, then what purpose would we have in doing the multi-stick experiment, since the shadows will vary? Let me see if you can follow along here…
- Flat earthers do the experiment with 3 sticks. The shadows are all different, confirming exactly what we’d expect since the sun is close by and the earth is flat.
- Ball earthers do the experiment with 3 sticks. The shadows are all different, confirming exactly what they’d expect since the sun is far away and the earth is a ball.
Do you get it now? The two stick experiment was worthless, as Eratosthenes had no way of knowing the sun was far away. A 3 stick experiment would be just as useless, because the results would support EITHER a curved earth with a far away sun… OR a flat earth with a close by sun… just like the 2 stick experiment!
So the question is one of whether the sun is close or far, not one of how many different shadows we can produce on the ground – since both models would result in various sticks casting various shadows.
So can I please (for the love of God) get you to agree that since Eratosthenes had no way to actually determine that the sun was very far away, and since the various shadows work equally well for either model, this 2000 year old experiment was woefully insufficient to determine the shape of the earth one way or the other?
That is the only answer, T8. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said as much in the video I presented. There is no other way out of it. The bottom line is that the results Eratosthenes recorded would have worked on a flat earth with a close sun or a curved earth with a far away sun. The experiment was useless, and if it even happened at all, is only kept alive for false propaganda purposes… because it is absolutely useless for determining the shape of the earth.
Nick: “I believe what is written. But I am equally sure that your idea of a firmament is not what He meant.”
D4T: Great. Since you believe in a firmament also maybe you have an idea of the height and thickness.
I don’t recall giving any descriptions of the firmament so I’m not sure how you could have anything to base your opinion that I’m wrong. That seems a little presumptuous.
Lol. I’m just glad he’s bugging you for a while instead of me. 🙂
“Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for …days” <– day 4″
If the primeval earth’s atmosphere cleared up on day 4, then yes on day 4 you could see through to the stars and moon.
Amen. The sun, moon and all the stars on day four. The earth on day one.
Same again. The Earth was void and things started to happen like an atmosphere starting to form from gases being emitted from the earth. Scientists believe the surface was molten and when the earth cooled, an atmosphere formed mainly from gases spewed from volcanoes. When the the period of intense volcanic activity ended, the atmosphere cleared up allowing light to penetrate. That could easily have been around day / stage 4. Then notice life comes after this. And this is the view of scientists too. Life starts to flourish on earth once the atmosphere allows the light of the sun through. From there we have plants first, then sea life, followed by terrestrial dwellers, and finally man in the same order as scientists believe.
Remember, the Genesis account starts as saying, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So the beginning (day 1 / stage 1) has the heavens and earth already there. What is the heavens? Darkness or stars? In my view, it seems both science and the bible are essentially saying the same thing. The only differences are one view says it was made, the other says it just happened from nothing.
I believe that scientific data fits Genesis, but not the belief system of many scientists.
What did Enoch see and what were the pillars. They were apparently the 4 winds that are between heaven and earth.
Quick question that I hope you can answer. While I ask a lot of questions, I really do not expect and answer although they are appreciated of course. But this is something testable for me because I have travelled very close to the North Pole. While I was there, I observed sunlight till nearly 4am in the morning. And if I had been there earlier in the year, I could have seen the sun set and then rise immediately. The same phenomenon can be observed the further south you travel. Where I live, daylight is visible after 9.00pm. In winter it can get dark around 6.00pm I think. How is this variation explained in a Flat Earth? Of course the Globe Earth has a simple explanation.
T8: If people stubbornly refuse science by stating that the Bible doesn’t agree, then all that will happen is people will abandon the Bible or science. …I do not see any discrepancies with actual scientific data vs the Bible…
Fantastic, because science hasn’t ever once conflicted with scripture. Certain flawed men’s interpretations of scientific evidence often conflicts, but the evidence itself never has and never will. I am a big believer in science, because it continually uncovers more and more about God’s awesome creation. So the question this thread hopes to answer is: Is there any verifiable and observational scientific evidence for the heliocentric model?
So far we’ve been presented with a fantastical tale of a well, a stick, and two shadows. So as of now, the answer is a definite “NO”. We’ll have to wait and see what else Anthony’s debunker has to offer. Coming soon…
T8: “when you think about it technically, the sun and moon are in your brain.”
Umm, no they’re not. My brain allows me to interpret the reality of the sun and moon but they do not reside there. Although I have been told that my head was in the clouds.
D4T: Not off topic at all, since the subject of flat earth encompasses centuries of deceptions all linked together, including big bang, accretion theory, abiogenesis, common descent, and fossils that are supposedly millions and billions of years old. And yes, original soft biological tissue being found in fossils that are claimed to be up to 550 million years old surely puts a damper on the deception… as does clearly seeing Chicago from Michigan. 🙂
942767: 21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Hey Marty, long time. Hope things are good with you.
Spreads the heavens out like a tent, huh?
Psalm 19:4
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
T8: I once saw Saturn and her rings through a decent telescope…
Cool. Could you tell it was a spherical planet? Or did it just look like a circular light – like my video of Jupiter? Because I know for a fact it didn’t look anything like NASA’s paintings of Saturn. 🙂
D4T: Mike, nice shot of Jupiter! I had my telescope out a week ago and saw a great shot of it as well! It’s amazing what you can do with the P-900!
Thanks. Are you able to record photos and images from your telescope? If so please share some of them. Yeah, I’m very happy with the P900. I’ve been having fun, and have some experiments planned. I have a Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer EQ base and multi-function mount coming this week, so I can follow the stars more easily, without all the jerky motions to get them back into frame.
Flat Earthers, this video explains a lot of your questions about why we can’t easily see the whole Earth and explains the view the ISS gets.
T8: “Guys why not start up a GoFundMe page where Flat Earthers can donate to, to build a rocket. Then blast that thing into the firmament, and create another large crack in it. Then tell the Ball Earthers to explain how there are now two cracks in the firmament. Once they give a reasonable answer, then show them the video of how it happened.”
No reason to do that when there has been operation “Dominic” and operation “Fishbowl” already. It’s interesting to note that “Dominic” means “Of the Lord”. So we have high altitude nuclear missles being launched under the names “Fishbowl” “Of the Lord”. You can’t make this stuff up.
If you haven’t heard of these I would do a little research on them. These came after operation “Highjump” which I suppose is a fitting name for Antartica.
T8: I guess you should equally deny that because we do not have powerful enough instruments to see atoms and electrons. Are these all fake too?
Is that really what you think I’ve done, T8? Do you seriously think my understanding is based on, “I can’t see a planet up close, therefore the whole heliocentric model is false and the earth is flat”?
T8, thanks for the video but I already had a grasp of why I can’t see the whole earth. I did enjoy his exposure of the ISS and their fisheye cameras. I have to ask, why would NASA want to give the illusion of a curved earth? Why wouldn’t they want to show the actual look of earth? Just wondering out loud.
Mike. To say the Earth is flat is to deny all the evidence that the earth is a globe.
Just saying that that would be an even bigger conspiracy than denying there are atoms and that all ideas about atoms are wrong and all models a fake.
I noticed that you were slightly offended, but how do you think people are when they are told the Earth is flat. The offence to their intellect and understanding would be worse. The problem is none of us have the money or technology to see these things for ourselves. But the sheer amount of things that point to a globe earth make it almost seem ridiculous to believe otherwise. Further, there are satisfying answers to all the points Flat Earthers raise IMO.
T8, thanks for the video but I already had a grasp of why I can’t see the whole earth. I did enjoy his exposure of the ISS and their fisheye cameras. I have to ask, why would NASA want to give the illusion of a curved earth? Why wouldn’t they want to show the actual look of earth? Just wondering out loud.
Exactly. So maybe the curve shown is the curve that exists. That is the easiest explanation right.
No reason to do that when there has been operation “Dominic” and operation “Fishbowl” already. It’s interesting to note that “Dominic” means “Of the Lord”. So we have high altitude nuclear missles being launched under the names “Fishbowl” “Of the Lord”. You can’t make this stuff up.
If you haven’t heard of these I would do a little research on them. These came after operation “Highjump” which I suppose is a fitting name for Antarctica.
Good, because if these are done right they should point to a curved earth. What if they do that?
And as long as there isn’t one called Operation Wormwood, then I am all for experimentation.
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