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T8: I do not know anyone personally that has performed this and neither do I know of anyone in the world who has done this.
So in 2000 years, a third shadow has been the only thing needed to prove beyond a doubt that our world is curved, and yet the general public knows of no such famous experiment done by any scientist? There are no textbooks touting the great accomplishment of “Professor X”, whose famous “Three Shadow Experiment” confirmed the rotundity of the place we live? Doesn’t that seem a little strange to you?
Anyway, it is a moot point because it assumes the sun is millions of miles away from the earth – something that has yet to this day to be verified. Right now, we’re just dealing with the first claim made by your video and Anthony’s article – that intelligent people have known for 2000 years that the earth is round. Even if we found out it was round in the 70’s by way of NASA images, the 2000 years claim is a bald face lie. In fact, the heliocentric model didn’t even begin to take hold until Copernicus in the 16th century, and it took hold very slowly, with a lot of debate that still rages today.
So can we all at least agree that the 2000 years claim is false, and move on to the next “proof” offered in Anthony’s article?
T8: …isn’t the point that the third well proves the sphere earth and thus Sagan was right about the sphere earth?
If a third well could prove a sphere (it can’t), then why in 2000 years has nobody done it?
Hi Mike,
One well two wells three wells all the same.
The sunlight coming through the clouds at different angles suggests a much closer sun
____________
God bless
Ed JT8: Also, in ancient times, did they believe sun is a rotating 32 miles sphere located about 3000 miles above the surface of the earth?
They believed the sun, the moon, and the stars were lights in a very close firmament… not millions of miles away.
T8: Thanks for the video on those Christian astronauts. Interesting thing is, you never really hear about Christian Evolutionists, although knowing how crazy this world is there are probably a few.
Seriously? You haven’t heard of Theistic Evolution? Or BioLogos? There are millions of self-professed Christians that think God used the big bang to to create the universe, and evolution to get the earth to the point it was ready for Him to create man. In fact, I’d venture a guess that Gene and Ed (perhaps Nick?) fall into this camp, judging by their recent responses.
T8: Mike, why are there Christian astronauts who concur with the current scientific view? They have a testimony and it is not very polite to write them all off as liars and workers of deceit surely.
See above. The whole of the Catholic Church professes to be Christian, T8, yet all of us know that their doctrines are far removed from any Biblical teachings, right? There are people who believe the universe itself is the consciousness who created us, yet they profess to be Christian. I could go on for hours, but let’s suffice it to say…
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord… Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
People who actually profess Jesus as their Lord and think they have served him well will be called evildoers and told to scram. Let that sink in.
Hey all. I’ve been gone for a year or so. I was on the international space station, helping canadarm2 to get up and running. What have I missed?
Hi Mike,
So scientists get stuff wrong and somehow this destroys their hope of salvation?
You offer your own ideas about creation and this saves you?
Oh wow, mike is back too. Who are the current moderators? Man, my legs are still acting weird. Really really need to rebuild some muscles.
Nick: Hi Mike,
Scripture offers several possible spiritual meanings for the tree of life and the pillars.
But you are stuck in literalism and you have built your dogma around this unspiritual approach.
Can you really not see how arrogant and condescending your comments are? If I understand the tree of life in the Garden of Eden to have been a real tree, I’m “stuck in literalism”? And have built myself a “dogma”? And my approach – ie: reading there was a tree and believing it – is an “unspiritual approach”? Do you think God would approve of your constant “holier than thou” tactics? This is what I said:
No doubt there are countless spiritual meanings behind much that is said in the scriptures. But take the tree of life, for instance. Is there any valid reason to think it wasn’t a real tree in the Garden of Eden? I mean, it could be a spiritual metaphor instead of a real tree – if someone had a desire to consider it as such. But is there any valid reason to do so? I find none. Likewise, I find no valid reason to consider the pillars of the earth, upon which God set the world, to have anything other than the normal everyday meaning of pillars. If you have a valid reason to consider the tree of life or the pillars God set the world upon spiritual metaphors, let’s hear that reason.
Do you understand how an adult discussion works? I am awaiting a reason to believe that the tree of life wasn’t a real tree, and the pillars upon which God set the world are not real pillars. Do you have a valid reason to offer? If not, then what reason could I possibly have to stop thinking it was a real tree in the garden, and real pillars supporting the earth?
Hi David,
It will be great to hear your down to earth approach.
But be careful about what you say as you are likely to be labelled as part of a huge conspiracy.
Nick: “A close firmament? How close is the firmament and how thick is it?”
I can’t answer those questions. But the way you phrase them it almost sounds like you don’t believe there is a firmament. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth but that is the way it comes across. Am I wrong?
D4T: I’m sure most here have heard of *Wernher von Braun who was a German SS (Nazis) that developed the V2 rocket. And most probably know that at his death he had Psalm 19:1 referenced on his grave marker. This is interesting because Psalm 19:1 mentions the heavens declaring the glory of God and the firmament! Let’s take a look.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2 Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6 Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.NASB
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KJB
Certainly inspirational and informative. Notice that there is a firmament and that the sun has a circuit that it runs! There is no mention that the earth spins or rotates. Rather it is the sun that conveys the idea of motion. It is like a bridegroom coming out of its chamber.. It rejoices to run a race… It has a circuit.
Clearly it is the sun in motion and not the earth according to God’s Word. Any thoughts?
* In 1960, his (Wernher von Braun) rocket development center transferred from the Army to the newly established NASA and received a mandate to build the giant Saturn rockets. Accordingly, von Braun became director of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle..
That’s a good start about Mr. Von Braun. Here is 1:42 clip that might interest you… especially the “and all of it is a lie” part.
Or perhaps this quote from Von Braun’s book “Voyage to the Moon” will shed some light…
“It is commonly (and falsely) believed that men will fly directly from the Earth to the moon, but to do this we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. Calculations have been carefully worked out on the type of vehicle we would need for the nonstop flight from the Earth to the moon and to return.
The figure speak for themselves: Three rockets would be necessary, each rocket ship would (need to) be TALLER THAN THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING (1250 FEET) and weigh about TEN TIMES the tonnage of the Queen Mary (or some 800,000 TONS).”
But the most important part of the post was the scripture. Here’s how the NIV words it…
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun. It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is deprived of its warmth.
I can’t imagine anyone reading this and coming to the conclusion that the sun stays put while the earth runs a circuit around it.
Hi Dig4,
I believe what is written.
But I am equally sure that your idea of a firmament is not what He meant.
Anthony: …we should read Genesis as the straightforward history that it appears to be… It does not tell us whether the stars existed before verse 16, or whether they simply became visible.
Your red words don’t align with your blue ones. God “made” the stars on day four… not “caused already existing stars to become visible” on day four.
Anthony, maybe you’ll answer what some others here won’t… What valid reason do you have to interpret “he made the stars” as “the stars had already existed”? In other words, why would you assume from verses that say the earth was created on day one and the stars on day four that the stars had existed before God made the earth? I’m looking for the reason this thought would come into your head or Gene’s head or Ed’s head or Nick’s head, etc. Can you help me out here?
Hi Dig4,
I am sure that God did not reveal the full glory of His creation to man because of His priorities.
He knew of man’s propensity for distraction and He wants him focussed on salvation.
Sure enough as soon as men found more detail they forgot God and His Son.
So busy and vainglorious about their discoveries they doubted Him.
There is only one thing that is important.
So in 2000 years, a third shadow has been the only thing needed to prove beyond a doubt that our world is curved, and yet the general public knows of no such famous experiment done by any scientist? There are no textbooks touting the great accomplishment of “Professor X”, whose famous “Three Shadow Experiment” confirmed the rotundity of the place we live? Doesn’t that seem a little strange to you?
I’m sure heaps of people have done it. Just that you wouldn’t get famous for doing it because it is a mere extra step in an experiment that is famous. If I can find a website that explains the steps, then hard to believe that no one in history has ever done this. However, for me, this is something Flat Earthers should do. Most of the populace have no reason to perform this experiment because they have a wealth of other data that suggests a globe, but this is something you you could do right? The US is big enough for three people to perform the experiment before hitting ocean.
Nick: “I believe what is written. But I am equally sure that your idea of a firmament is not what He meant.”
Great. Since you believe in a firmament also maybe you have an idea of the height and thickness.
I don’t recall giving any descriptions of the firmament so I’m not sure how you could have anything to base your opinion that I’m wrong. That seems a little presumptuous.
Gene: To all…..Here is a literial Hebrew translation of Gen1:1-5, by a Hedrew scholar (Jeff Benner)
Gen 1:1–in the summit “Elohiym (powers) fattened the sky (heavens)and the land
Gen 1:2–and the land had existed in confusion and was unfilled and darkness was upon the face of the deep sea and the wind of “Elohiym (powers) was much fluttering upon the face of the waters.
3….and “Elohiym (powers)” said, light exist and light existed.
4….and “Elohiym (powers)” saw the light given that it was functional and “Elohim (powers)” made a seperation between the light and the darkness.
5….and “Elohiym (powers)” called out to the light day and to the darkness he called out night and the evening existed and morining existed one day.While that is a rather nonsensical rendering, what with powers fattening the land in the summit and all, the word “and” that begins each verse indicates it is an ongoing statement, with no room for a deep time break in between. Besides, even in your version, powers fattened both the sky and the land in the summit – long before he fattened the stars. There is simply no way you can have stars before the earth if the Bible is your authority. Which is why I keep asking by whose authority you’ve come to believe that the stars were first and the earth afterwards. Why don’t you answer, Gene?
Gene: …there are fossil that show a preexisting earth… We have many kinds and types of fossilized animals that seem to show that.
There indeed exist many fossils all over the earth. But would it surprise you to know that things can become fossilized in mere weeks? The old thinking – brought on by a man named Charles Lyell, whose main goal was, in his own words, “to free the science of geology from Moses” – was that the fossilization process takes thousands or millions of years. We now know better. I’m trying to show you that you don’t have to believe in the stories these flawed men have been telling us, because the truth keeps outing itself. We don’t have to believe that fossils mean millions of years anymore. We don’t have to believe that the stars must have existed first. We don’t have to believe that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. None of this is true, and PhD scientists who have become Christians due to their own observational scientific evidence are the ones who have for years been setting these lies straight with hard core verifiable evidence.
Gene: In fat if anything it proves the earth is round like the billions of other planets out in space are.
Have you ever seen a planet? Or outer space for that matter? How then can you speak of billions of planets in space? Here is Jupiter and her “moons”. I took this video last week…
Looks a little different in our cameras and telescopes than in NASA’s…
Of course in NASA’s telescopes, the cloud formations on Jupiter remain exactly the same for two years. 🙂
They believed the sun, the moon, and the stars were lights in a very close firmament… not millions of miles away.
Believed is the key word here. Mankind has believed in many things that turned out to be different than expected.
Fire and brimstone the destruction suffered by Sodom and Gomorrah was from heaven right? But is that just a meteor or a volcanic eruption where debri and ash rain down from the sky? If so, it doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong because the biblical language is from our perspective because it is written for us. The tops of volcanoes are not in outer space, but only thousands of metres high, yet the heavens here just means from above. How high is not the question, rather that it came from the direction of our atmosphere. Or what about people being turned into pillars of salt, it seems to be the consensus that this is a volcanic event. Just because the Bible didn’t say volcanic event or meteor, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t either right?
It is written that knowledge shall increase and this is all that is happening here. We once believed the world to be exactly as we saw it from our perspective, but increase of knowledge because of accumulation of data over time and because of advanced technology that we have not possessed before, we are learning many more things.
If people stubbornly refuse science by stating that the Bible doesn’t agree, then all that will happen is people will abandon the Bible or science. But I believe it doesn’t have to be that way. That is a foolish thing to make happen. So far, I do not see any discrepancies with actual scientific data vs the Bible, even though I have a problem with the belief systems of many scientists.
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