- This topic has 6,414 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by
.
- Posts
Btw, how was the ISS built? Where can I see some footage of the construction process?
Yes, we know this is impossible in your world Mike.
But God divided our languages because if he didn’t do that, we would work together and nothing would be impossible.
You totally underestimate what man is capable of. We may be fallen, but we are still made in the image of God after all.
But your small mind blocks all this out. The Earth is flat. ISS impossible. We can’t travel to Antarctica. In fact you cannot even grasp the fact that eclipses are predicted in advance using the math of the heliocentric model.
Seriously Mike, how can you with a straight face even pretend this is an actual debate. You are so far behind here that it is embarrassing that you do not even see this.
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
Guess what? Language is not the barrier it use to be. My wife’s family speak Spanish and live in NZ. They use their phones to scan text on food labels for example and can see it in Spanish on their phone. Little minds are ignorant and say impossible. Some people dare to dream and create that which was once impossible.
I’m willing to bet that the iPhone was harder to make than putting a man on the moon. Yet you just say impossible all the while use this forum and the Internet and smart phone which use satellites. It is ironic that some smart people created the Internet and devices that access the Internet allowing ignoramuses a platform to debunk science.
Some seriously wacky shit bro, lol.
Wow! Every honest scholar in the history of the world (most of them Christians themselves) will tell you point blank what the writers of scripture believed about our world
Wow, have you not figured it out yet. Writers of scripture were revealed things by God. Some of it they did not themselves understand. John said that he saw locusts with men’s heads that have a tail that sting mankind. They just wrote down stuff that was given to them. If they understood everything, then you would have to say that they could have written it themselves. Then scholars try to understand it using their current knowledge, language, culture, and opinions. Also remember that many Jewish scholars while knowledgeable do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.
Some do not know the true damage their ignorance has done to fuel the Atheist agenda. But stumbling blocks are inevitable and if you lay a stumbling block against Dig4Truth for example, then you will have to pay for that Mike. It seems your lie is more important to you than Dig having the chance at truth and walking in all truth. The same truth that sets people free.
And He said to His disciples, “It is impossible for the stumbling blocks not to come, but woe to him by whom they come!
Imagine all the Atheists that are convinced the Bible is an ignorant book because of those Christians they met that were ignorant? Seriously, if a Christian is preaching lies to the lost, then what hope do the lost have. Do you even care for their souls?
The Bible does not teach your model of the Earth and universe. Stop pretending it does. That is a lie,
When you read about the heavens and the firmament, people imagined the Flat Earth because that was the taught knowledge of the time. We can still believe in the firmament and heavens, given the knowledge we have today. We both believe and read the scripture, the only difference is, you are applying an old debunked idea to it. God never told us the Earth is flat, nor does the Bible teach that.
Stop lying about that Mike. Nothing good can come from a lie. All lies have a Father. He is the one who deceives the world.
T8: The heavens declare His glory and since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, are clearly seen.
You left this part out…
Psalm 19
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
What do we know from scripture about this firmament that sheweth God’s handywork?
- It divides the waters above from the waters below. (Gen 1)
- God called it “heaven”. (Gen 1)
- God placed two great lights IN this firmament – one to govern the day and one to govern the night. (Gen 1)
- God placed ALL the stars IN this firmament. (Gen 1)
- It is strong, like cast metal. (Job 37:18)
- It has windows in it that God can open and close – through which flowed the waters above to flood the earth in Noah’s day. (Gen 7)
- It is a vaulted dome that God built over the earth. (Amos 9:6)
- The stars in this firmament will fall to earth, like figs shaken from a tree. (Revelation 6:13)
What do we know from secular sources about it?
In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere of Earth, conceived as a vast solid dome.[1] According to the Genesis creation narrative, God created the firmament to separate the “waters above” the earth from the “waters below” the earth.
Like most ancient peoples, the Hebrews believed that the sky was a solid dome with the Sun, Moon, planets and stars embedded in it.[7] According to The Jewish Encyclopedia:
The Hebrews regarded the earth as a plain or a hill figured like a hemisphere, swimming on water. Over this is arched the solid vault of heaven. To this vault are fastened the lights, the stars.
Of course I could list even more scriptures, and dozens of other scholarly articles about Hebrew cosmology that will teach you the same thing. But I’m really curious, since you didn’t answer my last post…
If you took these scriptural teachings about the firmament as literal truth, would you still say there is no contradiction between scripture and your heliocentric model? YES or NO?
It’s very telling that you won’t answer the question, T8.
T8: Satellites, rockets, video, photos, mathematics, 100% eclipse predictions based on heliocentric model, Antarctic travel, Southern Hemisphere distances, sunsets, sunrises, Auroras, air travel, etc.
- Satellites: Yes, we know there are thousands of satellites hovering over the earth – hanging from balloons that are steered by tethers that can raise and lower them into different jet streams to place them where we want them to be. But how do YOU know that there are satellites orbiting in “outer space”? Doesn’t the fact that they’re launching thousands of balloon satellites tell you that the “outer space” ones don’t exist? Because if they did, the balloon satellites would be 100% unnecessary. Can you allow yourself to reason this out?
- Rockets: Yes, rockets are launched by NASA, other governments, and private individuals… including millions of kids in science classes. But how do YOU know that any of them go into “outer space”? How will you and I confirm that they do?
- Videos/Photos: Yes, there is no shortage of videos and photos of “outer space”. In fact, I once watched a video called “Gravity” in which the actress Sandra Bullock was in outer space for a long time… floating around in zero gravity and trying to get back to earth. How will you and I confirm that Sandra – or any other person in the history of the world – actually WAS in “outer space”?
- Mathematics: Yes, the entire heliocentric model is a very intricate mathematical construct – and has been continuously tweaked for centuries to accommodate new observations not aligning with the previous version. May I remind you that esteemed cosmologist George Ellis said in 1985 that he could construct a mathematical universe with the earth at it’s center, and it could not be disproved by observation? So yes, a thousand different mathematicians can construct a thousand different mathematical models of the universe that align with the observations – and none of them could be disproved by men who stand on the earth and gaze at lights in the sky. Btw, did you know that EVERY SINGLE observation we’ve ever made also works EXACTLY THE SAME on an un-moving globe earth where the entire universe orbits around us? Both Newton and Einstein acknowledged that whether the earth is doing the moving or the heavens are doing the moving is only a matter of how you choose to see it. So maybe you could start with a geocentric motionless GLOBE model first… with the entire universe moving around us. That way you can still have many of the scriptures on your side, the mathematics and predictions would work exactly the same, and you could keep on believing in your Antarctica and your southern distances. What do you say to that?
- For the hundredth time, the same predictions can (AND ARE!) be made on a flat and stationary earth. Do you understand that I can make the same “predictions” all by myself? Or will that once again fall on deaf ears that itch to hear only what they want to hear? Would you like me to show you some of my predictions again? When will you understand that the heavens are an intricate clock – and they operate exactly like a clock. It’s not really a “prediction” for me to notice that the minute hand is on the 7, and “predict” that it will be on the 8 in five minutes, right? That’s EXACTLY how heavenly signs and seasons are “predicted”, T8. And no, a spinning ball orbiting the sun is not required for those predictions. Let me know if you want me to “predict” an upcoming eclipse for you, okay?
- Antarctic travel, Southern Hemisphere distances, sunsets, sunrises, Auroras, air travel: The first two cannot be confirmed by you, and work equally well in a geocentric stationary GLOBE model. So if you’re willing to accept that the earth is stationary and the heavens orbit around us, then we can debate whether that stationary earth is a ball or not. Let me know. As for the last 4, there is NOTHING about them that say anything one way or the other about the shape or movement of the earth.
So, after all that, I’m still waiting for your overwhelming VERIFIABLE proof that we live on a spinning water ball orbiting the sun in a vast vacuum filled with bazillions of stars and trillions of galaxies.
T8: But God divided our languages because if he didn’t do that, we would work together and nothing would be impossible.
Does that help you to see how ridiculous your argument is? God was so against them building a TOWER to reach the heavens… but He’s suddenly okay with us traveling millions and billions of miles from our home? Come on man… THINK!
Btw, this is how the skies in Arizona have looked for months…
The first was from 8-3-19, the second from this morning… 10-26-19.
Compare with what we were experiencing every single day for the past couple of years…
Where have all the chemtrails gone? And this is being reported all over the world! Did the “normal contrails” just start dissipating faster all on their own? Has the entire world been experiencing the perfect humidity conditions that prohibit contrails from lingering on for hours and forming milky white clouds that cover the entire sky? What do you think T8 and Gene? All I know is that I’m ecstatic to see blue skies and normal puffy clouds again. I seriously thought I’d never see them again. Praise Jah!
Btw, you can see the curvature of the earth in that second photo! Look at the trees and houses tilting towards each other at the top. Oh crap… that must mean the earth is concave – not convex after all! Of course it could just mean I used a wide angle lens that gives the appearance of curvature that doesn’t actually exist in reality, right? Case in point…
A still shot from T8’s “proof” video…
And now, from a high altitude balloon that’s NOT using a fisheye lens to fool people…
Notice any difference? 😁
T8: Writers of scripture were revealed things by God… Some do not know the true damage their ignorance has done to fuel the Atheist agenda… Imagine all the Atheists that are convinced the Bible is an ignorant book because of those Christians they met that were ignorant? The Bible does not teach your model of the Earth and universe. Stop pretending it does. That is a lie,
I seriously cannot believe what you wrote here. So GOD revealed to Moses how He opened the windows of the firmament to flood the earth with the waters above it… and I’M the liar for believing this?
Listen man… you can allow yourself to say the Biblical descriptions of our world are allegorical. You can allow yourself to say that God was talking to ignorant people, and describing His world in a simplified way that they would understand. You can allow yourself to say that God was only worried about theology and salvation, and so the Bible was never intended to be a scientifically accurate depiction of our world. But nobody – and I mean NOBODY – can honestly say that the Bible doesn’t teach “my” model of the earth and universe. Because it most definitely DOES explicitly teach of an un-movable earth set on foundational pillars, surrounded by a hard and solid vaulted dome, above which lie waters, and in which run the sun, moon and stars on God-appointed circuits. And in which also are windows that can be opened to let waters above fall to the earth, and closed to stop those waters from flowing through. It most assuredly DOES teach that it is the sun that moves around the stationary earth, and God is able to stop that sun’s movement and keep it still in the sky if He wants to. And it most certainly DOES teach that our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ of God explicitly said that the stars will fall from that firmament to the earth in the end days.
So for you to say that I, Wikipedia, and every scholarly source in the history of the world are LYING by simply telling what the scriptures clearly and explicitly teach is itself a HUGE LIE!
Now, I’ve asked you for two things in the past week. They are simple things that shouldn’t take more than a couple minutes of your time. The first is a YES or NO answer to this question…
IF you took Jesus’ pronouncement that the stars will fall from the firmament to the earth as LITERAL – would you still say that there is no contradiction between the Biblical model and the heliocentric model? YES or NO?
Can you produce a single scholarly article that claims what you do – that the Bible DOESN’T teach of a stationary earth set on foundational pillars, and surrounded by a vaulted dome in which are the sun, moon, and stars running appointed circuits over the earth, and above which are waters that can be let through windows of the vaulted dome to flood the earth?
Please address these two points clearly and succinctly. (We know why you haven’t addressed them already. So let’s see if you keep hiding from them and posting a bunch of philosophical meanderings and lies, or if you’ll address them this time.)
What do we know from scripture about this firmament that sheweth God’s handywork?
It divides the waters above from the waters below. (Gen 1)
God called it “heaven”. (Gen 1)
God placed two great lights IN this firmament – one to govern the day and one to govern the night. (Gen 1)
God placed ALL the stars IN this firmament. (Gen 1)
It is strong, like cast metal. (Job 37:18)
It has windows in it that God can open and close – through which flowed the waters above to flood the earth in Noah’s day. (Gen 7)
It is a vaulted dome that God built over the earth. (Amos 9:6)
The stars in this firmament will fall to earth, like figs shaken from a tree. (Revelation 6:13)Nothing here decides if the earth is flat or a globe. It can apply to an earth of any shape.
In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere of Earth, conceived as a vast solid dome.
What the ancients believed about the universe and science is not the same as scripture which was inspired by God. Men read the Bible through their cultural lens just as we do today.
How many so-called experts and scholars have interpreted the AntiChrist as this person or that person?
Putting your trust in man is for fools. God speaks the truth and we will see his truth come to pass.
Simple as that.
Your argument on this point is seriously flawed because you are relying on expert men who have opinions about things in an age of much less technology and knowledge.
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
Notice how many things are revealed in the end times, but your argument is things were revealed way before then are more reliable. Not so Mike.
And now, from a high altitude balloon that’s NOT using a fisheye lens to fool people…
Of course lenses can distort (refraction lol), but regardless of the lens used, a trip around the world is only possible in a globe. You would argue that going around the world is following the grooves on a record, but satellites are imaging earth 24/7, so do you not find it strange that not one of them has a photo or video of the edge of the disk or the dome wall?
Isn’t that the real damning evidence of satellite photography for the Flat Earthers? Not one pic or video of a disc, an edge, or a wall. Surely there would be hundreds of videos or photos? But yeah, I know your answer. It is all CGI. Millions of lizard people are working to keep the conspiracy under wraps. You can only reveal these reptiles if you happen to video one of them and slow down the footage of them when they are blinking. Yes, this is your level of science.
lol.
T8, please address…
- IF you took Jesus’ pronouncement that the stars will fall from the firmament to the earth as LITERAL – would you still say that there is no contradiction between the Biblical model and the heliocentric model? YES or NO?
- Can you produce a single scholarly article that claims what you do – that the Bible DOESN’T teach of a stationary earth set on foundational pillars, and surrounded by a vaulted dome in which are the sun, moon, and stars running appointed circuits over the earth, and above which are waters that can be let through windows of the vaulted dome to flood the earth? YES or NO?
Thanks in advance for your prompt, courteous, and succinct answers.
IF you took Jesus’ pronouncement that the stars will fall from the firmament to the earth as LITERAL – would you still say that there is no contradiction between the Biblical model and the heliocentric model? YES or NO?
Yes. No contradiction. Stars fall to earth all the time. I have seen too many to count. They are usually rocks burning up in the atmosphere. Jesus is obviously talking about a significant event however where lots of stars fall or bright objects either fall to earth or appear to come toward earth from our perspective in the case of the earth moving differently. Could be a meteor shower, comets, asteroid, or the earth moving like a drunkard. Could even be speaking about angels falling to earth.
We actually have photos of a comet smashing into Jupiter a much bigger planet than earth.
If that comet hit earth instead it would have been devastating.
Can you produce a single scholarly article that claims what you do – that the Bible DOESN’T teach of a stationary earth set on foundational pillars, and surrounded by a vaulted dome in which are the sun, moon, and stars running appointed circuits over the earth, and above which are waters that can be let through windows of the vaulted dome to flood the earth? YES or NO?
No.
I cannot point you to an article that teaches the earth is flat or curved. Maybe you can but scholarly articles are often wrong and if they say the ancients believed this or that, you need to factor in their culture and science which is not infallible. The beautiful thing here is that it doesn’t matter what shape the earth is from a scriptural point of view. What is written in scripture neither stands or falls if the earth is flat or a globe. The shape is irrelevant.
The earth can hang on nothing or over nothing whether it is a globe ore flat. Certainly we have pictures of the globe that do not show ropes holding the planet up. lol. The circumference of the earth works on a pizza and a globe. And the pillars of the earth do not speak of the earth’s shape. ‘Pillars’ like the word ‘cornerstone’ and ‘salt’ if taken literally would be silly. So Jesus would be a stone and Believers are literal salt. You can even refer to a person as a pillar of strength for example.
You left this part out…
Psalm 19
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Well yes, the sky or atmosphere, outer space certainly shows his handiwork. Obviously we cannot see the other galaxies which could be the heavens.
Well we can actually see Andromeda as a star in the firmament.
T8: Maybe you can but scholarly articles are often wrong and if they say the ancients believed this or that, you need to factor in their culture and science which is not infallible.
Agreed, scientists and their conclusions are not infallible but what about the Word of God?
T8: And the pillars of the earth do not speak of the earth’s shape. ‘Pillars’ like the word ‘cornerstone’ and ‘salt’ if taken literally would be silly. So Jesus would be a stone and Believers are literal salt. You can even refer to a person as a pillar of strength for example.
Job 9:5-7 It is God who removes the mountains, they know not how, When He overturns them in His anger;
6 Who shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble; 7 Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars;Psalm 75:3 The earth and all who dwell in it melt; It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
Either God is lying to us, which He cannot do, or the pillars are not just a figment of your imagination. They are spoken of as a real entity. They are something that exists in our space and time and not just a metaphor. Unless you wish to contend that God simply tells us lies because we are too dumb to comprehend. Which one are you going to go with t8?
How to spot a metaphor or analogy:
Rev 10:1 I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire;
Did you notice any of the same language in the above verses? Does the earth, sun and stars actually exist? Then why would you cherry pick out one word in the middle and assume that it and it alone was a metaphor or analogy?
Job 9:5-7 It is God who removes the mountains, they know not how, When He overturns them in His anger;
6 Who shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble; 7 Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars;Dig, the moon will become blood too. The Bible is written so the wicked will not understand. You cannot take everything literally, otherwise the wicked would understand.
It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
Not all foundations are as you think. The foundation of our faith are not a literal concrete pillars or a stone platform right, but the Earth is rock right? Jesus is the cornerstone, but he is not made of rock. Believers are not made of salt? Lot’s wife who turned back was not sprinkled on someone meal. The moon is not going to bleed out.
It was written in a way that the wicked will not understand. Not judging you, just saying that it is not written literally in a way that anyone can understand scripture.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
