- This topic has 6,416 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by
.
- Posts
I watched both yesterday. Great videos! I can’t wait to see some of the IR photos. Exciting!
As far as the sun stopping, I believe that is what happened, just like the Scripture says.
Ecc 1:5 Also, the sun rises and the sun sets; And hastening to its place it rises there again.
Hey D, I did some preliminary comparisons between my visible spectrum (VS) P1000 and my IR P900. I’ll be making a quick YouTube video… maybe today. I also have one more crescent moon position vid to make. Man, the killer one was going to be Sunday morning… the last sliver of light on the moon. I was up at 4 am and in place when a huge storm blew in out of nowhere, blocking my view of everything. But you’ll like the photo I took early Saturday morning of the crescent rising above a mountain. 🙂
Also, please check out this page…
https://biblehub.com/text/ecclesiastes/1-5.htm
It has the Hebrew words that make up that Ecclesiastes verse you just posted. If you hover over the Strong’s numbers, you’ll see the verse actually says the sun comes out and the sun goes in, and hastens to the place from where it comes out again.
The only way scripture says the sun rises or sets is if the translator chooses to use “rise” or “set” for those Hebrew words. But since everybody who wrote scripture and all of their contemporaries knew that the sun and moon ran appointed circuits in a dome that covered the flat earth, they wouldn’t have used the meaning of “rise” or “set”. They all knew it was really coming out from and going back into its chambers. This sunrise and sunset thing is just a stubborn last vestige of our awakening. We’ve been so thoroughly indoctrinated into thinking the sun goes over a curved earth and comes back into view over that same curved earth that it’s hard to get it out of our heads. It’s kind of like the word “atmosphere” that we still use – despite knowing we don’t live on a sphere. It is really an atmosplane.
But to the ancient Hebrews who wrote scripture, the idea of a sun “rising” or “setting” would have been as odd as us seeing a plane disappear on the horizon and saying the plane had “set”. Or seeing clouds merge with the distant horizon and saying those clouds had “set”. We don’t say “set” or “rise” when it comes to planes and clouds, because even though they have the same appearance as the sun and moon disappearing at the horizon, we know that the plane and the clouds are still just as high off the earth as they were when they were directly over our heads. And notice I said “disappearing AT the horizon”, not “over” it. That is another one we’ll have to train ourselves on – since nothing is going “over” any horizon. It just disappears into the atmosplane AT our horizon.
So saying “the sun set” would be as absurd to the ancient cultures as saying “the plane set” is to us.
Peace
Pesky thing about words, they mean stuff. I think Elton John said it well, “don’t let the sun go down on you”. ; )
Another great video. The pics from the P1000 look like you will be taking some crazy good photos soon! And the IR photos will probably be incredible too! Can’t wait.
I want to continue with the scriptural view but that does take time. For now I would like to offer some lighthearted entertainment.
SSDD, T8. This has been your MO since I started the thread…
Mike or D4T: What do you think of this ONE SINGLE photo that anyone on earth can test, and that undeniably shows the earth can’t be the ball they’ve told us it is?
T8: I don’t have the time or the interest to look into that ONE SINGLE photo, but here’s a YouTube video mocking/debunking flat earthers.
Mike or D4T: Okay, surely you have time for scripture. How about this ONE SINGLE scripture that clearly says the sun stopped moving in the midst of the heavens?
T8: I’d love to discuss that ONE SINGLE scripture with you, but I just don’t have the time. So here’s a YouTube video mocking/debunking flat earthers.
They’re laughing at YOU, T8… not us. They know that we’ve already been awakened to the truth of their lies. They know that even die hard evolutionists are turning TO God and the Bible after just a cursory investigation into the globe deception. Videos like the ones you just posted are designed to keep willfully ignorant people willfully ignorant. For example, start at the 1:35 mark of the second one. He tells the truth spot on. At 3 miles – according to THEIR math, not ours – we should not be able to see the bottom 6 feet of any object. Go back and watch the Stephen Hawking PBS special that Kathi posted here. You’ll see that their “experiments” garnered exactly the results that a ball 25,000 miles in circumference should garner. At 3 miles, the laser was exactly 6 feet higher on the white board, because according to their model, 3 miles puts the boat exactly 6 feet behind the curve of the earth. At 6 miles, the helicopter was able to be seen at exactly 24 feet off the ground, because according to their model, 6 miles put the landed helicopter exactly 24 feet behind the curve of the earth. Do you understand this? Do you understand that this was Stephen Hawking and PBS running tests to prove the curve of the earth, and getting results that were exactly in line with THEIR formula of 8 inches per mile squared?
So now you post a video with an actor trying his best to represent flat earthers as pot smoking hippies with flowers in their hair and nothing but rocks in their heads. BUT HE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH! He flat out told you that if you planted a 2 foot tall flag 3 miles from an observer, the very top of that flag would still be 4 feet behind the curve of the earth. HE PAINSTAKINGLY DID THE CORRECT MATH RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES! He reported the exact results that Stephen Hawking, PBS, or any other mainstream scientist would also report… that 6 feet hidden minus the 2 feet height of the flag amounts to the top of the flag still being 4 feet below the horizon. AND THEN HE REPORTED WHAT THOUSANDS OF FLAT EARTHERS HAVE DOCUMENTED… that even though the very top of the flag would be hidden behind 4 feet of curve if we lived on a ball, WE CAN SEE THE ENTIRE FLAG! And so can you! And so can anyone on God’s green earth who has great eyes, a zoom camera, or a pair of binoculars.
Ah… but the actor told you the truth while acting like an effeminate, dim-witted, pot-smoking loser, didn’t he? And that’s all that you saw. You saw a skit conveying the idea that stupid pot heads with fried brains think the flag would still be 4 feet behind the curve, and so you jumped to the immediate conclusion that since you’re much smarter than any drug-addled loser, the data this actor conveyed – and the people who believe it – are to be ridiculed and shamed.
I mean, that is why you posted those particular videos, right? And it is why you chose to post one called “Bat Shit Crazy” or something to that effect, right? And it is why you keep making completely unfounded implications that I must also be some drug-addled, brain-fried loser, right?
Let’s get something straight… When I first joined your site 10 years ago, I had barely stepped off a 25 year alcohol and drug fueled path to destruction. I lost my million dollar business. I lost my friends, my family, my money. I sold a brand new $25,000 speed boat for $10,000, gave $100 (that’s one hundred) of it to my newborn son’s mother so she could get diapers, and spent every penny of the remainder on drugs and alcohol. I lied, cheated, stole, and did just about every other vile thing you could imagine. Finally came the night I was crashing in a sleeping bag on some drug dealer’s floor (I was homeless many times). I could see the demons clinging to the ceiling like upside-down gargoyles. They were stinging me like bees. I could physically hear them taunting and laughing as they pointed at me. And I physically felt the sleeping bag turn into quicksand, and hands wrapping me up from beneath and pulling me under. Drug-induced hallucination? Maybe. But it was real enough to me that I hit my knees and prayed with all my might to a God that I had never believed in. The demons fled and the quicksand was a sleeping bag again.
I prayed and God helped me. I’d love to say that was all there was to it, but I went back and forth from clean to messed up for the next few years. But along the way I read the Bible. I figured that if God would help a person who had slandered His good name for years, the least I could do was read His book. So I did. And then I read it again. And again. And again. I have since read 6 different versions of the Holy Scriptures from cover to cover. I think it was during the first reading that I joined your site. I wanted to know everything I could about this God who helped me after I had proudly disowned Him years earlier, so I joined Heaven Net. It was the first time I’d ever been on any kind of chat forum. And I learned from your members as I was learning from scripture. Not long after, you and I were brothers in arms – using scripture like we were scholars to battle the Trinity Doctrine and the Unitarian belief that Jesus began his existence as a human being.
And not long after that, you asked me to be a moderator. I still remember me asking you for the ability to delete those spam pornography posts that plagued us for a while, so you didn’t have to be bothered with it. Plus, you sometimes didn’t log on for many days at a time, and so the porn would sit there until you did. I remember you telling me that you had never given any moderator that power. I remember you telling me if you gave it to me, I would have the power to not only delete spam, but to delete years of your hard work and tens of thousands of posts from hundreds of people… all with the click of a button. Do you remember that, T8? Do you remember relinquishing that power to me, and trusting that I wouldn’t flip out some day and take down your entire site? Because I sure do.
Well guess what? One major difference between me now and me then is that I have quite a few more years of clean and sober under my belt. I wouldn’t touch drugs or alcohol today if you paid me a million dollars to do so. Another difference is that I know a lot more now than I did back then. I haven’t stopped studying everything I can as it relates to my Creator, and His adversary who is currently the god of this earth. I spent years boning up on the Big Bang>Abiogenesis>Evolution story – and learned that it is all, without a shred of doubt, a huge deception intended to lead people from God. So what’s really the difference between the guy who has a thread here about how Cain took his wife from the less-evolved cavemen and the guy who laughs at that guy for being such an idiot? I’ve studied and learned more… that’s all. I now know that the idea of ignorant, less evolved cavemen is laughable. I now know that the idea of billions of years is a joke. I now know that the idea that nothing blew up into a precisely tuned universe for no particular reason at all is nonsense at the highest level.
As for flat earth, I’m just a newbie. But in less than a year, I’ve learned more about the heliocentric model than I was ever taught in many years of school. And that’s what you need to keep in mind, T8. I used to be you. You and I were both taught the same things in school, and by science programs. (It’s called a “program” for a reason, you know.) There is absolutely nothing you know about the Copernican model that I and D4T weren’t also taught. The difference between us is that we chose to not only go way beyond what they taught us in school, but actually question many of the things they did teach us. You know… the things we already believed on nothing but blind faith for decades.
Is gravity legit? Well, why doesn’t it work on helium and smoke from a fire? Both of those things have mass, right? And the “law” of gravity says ALL things with mass attract ALL OTHER things with mass, right? So why are helium, nitrogen and smoke exempt from this law of gravity? And we’re told gravity is a constant force, but how can the same amount of gravitational pull between the moon and earth be little enough that the moon doesn’t crash into the earth at its closest proximity, yet great enough that the moon doesn’t fly away at its greatest proximity?
How about light? Surely you can spout off the measured and confirmed speed of light without even thinking, right? After all, you, D4T and I were all taught this stuff at school, right? We were taught that it’s settled science, right? And of course you’ve heard of Newton’s 1st Law, right? If you’ll recall, it states that an object at rest tends to remain at rest, and an object in motion tends to remain in motion with a constant velocity unless it is acted upon by another force. And surely you know that light slows down when it enters a denser medium like glass or water, right? But here’s the rub… How is it that light jumps right back up to its original constant speed upon exiting that denser medium? You see? If it enters the water at X, and exits the water at Y, then Y is the speed at which it MUST remain until acted upon by another force. Their “settled science” has one law, the constant speed of light, breaking another of their laws, the law of constant velocity.
I could go on and on, but this is how our “settled science” really is, T8. We all learned to regurgitate words that we were told in order to get A’s on our report cards. And trust me, I got straight A’s, brother. But we were never taught to think critically, or to question whether these thing we were taught even make a lick of sense. They don’t want critical thinkers, T8. They want a bunch of hopeless souls, who know there is no God, doing whatever they want as long as they put in a good day’s work to keep the rich at the top getting richer.
I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers. – John D. Rockefeller
Anyway, it saddens me to know that you post videos like the above, thinking you are poking fun at me, but are so deeply indoctrinated that you can’t even recognize they are really poking fun at you. It’s like they’re saying, “Check out these globers, man. We’ve got them so heavily brainwashed that we can put evidence for the flat earth right in their faces, but present it in such a way that they walk away laughing at those who know the truth, all the while imagining that they are the intelligent ones. I mean, we’ve even showed them CGI of 50 ton cylinders landing backwards on barges that are bouncing all over the place on choppy seas – and they believe it’s real! Stupid goyim! Is there anything they won’t blindly believe?”
Here’s hoping that it won’t be too long before you find the time to address that ONE SINGLE question I asked about ONE SINGLE scripture. Or that ONE SINGLE diagram. Or that ONE SINGLE photo of LA from 120 miles away. And here’s double hoping that you won’t continue to embarrass yourself by posting videos of things you so poorly understand that you can’t even recognize they are laughing at you… not us.
Anyway, it saddens me to know that you post videos like the above, thinking you are poking fun at me.
Mike, I try to be honest about stuff even if it might offend. That is how much I love the truth. I love it to the point that it makes me unpopular with some people. So let me reiterate. Many see the Flat Earth argument as being as silly as those videos. I am not joking about that. As for the indoctrination comment, that is the problem. You are like that guy who believes in the Trinity. You believe it so much that the guy that doesn’t believe it is indoctrinated. But the reality is the Earth as a globe has so much proof that saying those who believe the proof as being indoctrinated is really disingenuous.
Earthshine
The brightly lit portion of the moon is illuminated directly by the sun. The rest of the moon is still visible because of earthshine or sunshine reflecting off Earth.
‘Joshua stopped the sun’ 3,224 years ago today, scientists say
Researchers claim epic Biblical story is earliest account of annular eclipse that occurred on October 30, 1207 BCE; also helps pinpoint reigns of Pharaohs Ramesses and Merneptah.
Cambridge researchers announced Monday that they have pinpointed the date of the biblical account of Joshua stopping the sun — which they claim is the day of the oldest eclipse ever recorded — to October 30, 1207 BCE, exactly 3,224 years ago.In a paper published in the “Royal Astronomical Society journal Astronomy & Geophysics,” researchers explained that they were consequently also able to refine the dates of the reigns of two Egyptian pharaohs of that era, Ramesses the Great and his son Merneptah.
The paper reinforces research published earlier this year by Israeli scientists, which also interpreted the biblical story as referring to an eclipse on the same date.
The researchers rejected earlier Chinese and Ugaritic records of eclipses as unreliable, concluding that the Bible contains the only record of a solar eclipse prior to 1000 BCE.
Chapter 10 of the Book of Joshua relates that soon after Joshua and the Israelites entered the Promised Land, they waged battle against five armies which laid siege to the Gibeonites. Joshua had promised to protect the Gibeonites, so he led an army and defeated the five kings. Joshua prayed that God help the Israelites in their battle by stopping the sun:
“Then Joshua spoke to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered the Amorites before the children of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel: ‘Sun, stand still [dom] upon Gibeon; and you, Moon, in the valley of Ayalon.’” (Joshua 10:12).
“If these words are describing a real observation, then a major astronomical event was taking place — the question for us to figure out is what the text actually means,” said paper co-author Colin Humphreys from the University of Cambridge’s Department of Materials Science & Metallurgy.
“Modern English translations, which follow the King James translation of 1611, usually interpret this text to mean that the sun and moon stopped moving,” Humphreys explained. “But going back to the original Hebrew text, we determined that an alternative meaning could be that the sun and moon just stopped doing what they normally do: they stopped shining.”
Humphreys said that if the biblical account means that the light from the sun appeared to stop shining, it may refer to an eclipse.
“This interpretation is supported by the fact that the Hebrew word translated ‘stand still’ has the same root as a Babylonian word used in ancient astronomical texts to describe eclipses,” he said.
Anyway, it saddens me to know that you post videos like the above, thinking you are poking fun at me.
Mike, I try to be honest about stuff even if it might offend. That is truly how many see the Flat Earth argument. I am not joking about that. As for the indoctrination comment, that is the problem. You are like that guy who believes in the Trinity. You believe it so much that the guy that doesn’t believe it is indoctrinated. But the reality is the Earth as a globe has so much proof that saying those who believe the proof as being indoctrinated is really disingenuous.
Globe cannot be represented correctly on a flat plane
I’m no rocket scientist, but I would have thought that your confusion is resulting from relying on 2D to fully explain 3D.
I have also noticed other 2D reliance to explain 3D. While Globe Earthers (as you call them) often use 2D graphics, they do so to make something easier to understand. They are not really using 2D to prove the Earth as much as say Flat Earthers do to prove a Flat Earth.
Same thing with that Alaska flight. The error is a globe earth being represented in 2D.
Finally, the boat that is brought back from being over the horizon was never over the horizon in the first place. It was just too small to see.
I did watch the video with the hippie discussing the FE about a week or two ago. I too was impressed that he had most of the facts correct. This made me wonder if he isn’t a closet FE guy. I have watched several of his videos in the past and for the most part they are funny. But he nailed most of the facts in the FE video.
As Mike pointed out the math he used is spot-on according to the scientists. So then where is the curve? Don’t you get tired of us pointing out the fact that the curve is missing and substantiating it with documented evidence? Maybe it’s just a blind spot out on the highly distorted waves of the water to you, I don’t know.
I was impressed by Mike’s brief testimony. What an awesome God to reach down and rescue someone like me, I mean Mike. : ) I was a little curious as to why no one had commended him on this miracle of faith. Everything else aside, isn’t that what really matters? But not a word, just more pseudo science.
I especially liked the way t8 went to the “pros” of science to remove any hint of a miracle from Joshua’s long day. I wonder if he buys into the humanistic explanations for the plagues of Egypt during the Exodus? Or a local flood instead of Noah’s flood? I mean why stop when you’re on a roll? Shoot, I bet Yeshua walking on water has a totally secular explanation.
When science, falsely called, is your god then you must bow down to whatever it says.
Everything has an explanation whether it is natural or supernatural. Otherwise it didn’t happen right. Think about it.
Dig. You’re not thinking straight. If Joshua’s long day happened and there is physical evidence of such, then that is not against the event but for it. I’m surprised I need to point this out as it is common sense.
While I’m on the topic of choosing scientism over the Word of God, why not mull over this in depth video about the acuracy of the Scriptures.
“This interpretation is supported by the fact that the Hebrew word translated ‘stand still’ has the same root as a Babylonian word used in ancient astronomical texts to describe eclipses,” he said.
Makes you think right? If not, then the real problem here is the lack of thinking right?
D4T: I did watch the video with the hippie discussing the FE about a week or two ago. I too was impressed that he had most of the facts correct. This made me wonder if he isn’t a closet FE guy. I have watched several of his videos in the past and for the most part they are funny. But he nailed most of the facts in the FE video.
He was spot on with his fake moon landing video, too. So I’m also wondering the same thing about him being a closet flat earther. Either way works, since the deceivers have been hiding the truth in plain sight for centuries. If he’s not a closet flat earther, this would just be another example of that.
D4T: I was impressed by Mike’s brief testimony. What an awesome God to reach down and rescue someone like me, I mean Mike. : )
You too, huh? 🙂 How great and awesome is our God?
D4T: I especially liked the way t8 went to the “pros” of science to remove any hint of a miracle from Joshua’s long day.
More like amateurs.
T8: Dig. You’re not thinking straight. If Joshua’s long day happened and there is physical evidence of such, then that is not against the event but for it. I’m surprised I need to point this out as it is common sense.
In what world does a solar eclipse cause the daylight to last longer? I’m surprised I need to point this out as it is common sense, but Joshua wanted MORE daylight in order to continue defeating the enemy armies. A solar eclipse SHORTENS the hours of daylight! T8’s source says…
“But going back to the original Hebrew text, we determined that an alternative meaning could be that the sun and moon just stopped doing what they normally do: they stopped shining.”
Really? Joshua wanted more daylight so “the nation could take vengeance upon its enemies”, and God acted on his command by making the sun and moon STOP shining? Also, in what world has anyone ever seen a moon shining during the day of a solar eclipse? So in his effort to “gather around him a great number of teachers to say what his itching ears want to hear” (2 Tim 4:3), T8 apparently lost track of his common sense.
T8: …the real problem here is the lack of thinking right?
Yes… on your part. Let us reason together starting from scripture, okay?
Joshua 10
12 At that time Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,
“Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”So right away we see that the sun and moon were in different locations, right? In order for it to be a solar eclipse (according to the helical model), the sun and moon must be in the SAME location as viewed from earth. Which, btw, makes it impossible to see the moon shining, per your source.
13a And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.
Here we see that both the sun and the moon (in different locations) stopped until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Surely the idea isn’t that the sun and moon stopped in total eclipse position, making it dark until the nation took vengeance, right?
13b The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to come in for about a whole day.
And here we see that the sun STOPPED – IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN. How does an already stationary sun STOP in the midst of heaven, T8? Surely a straightforward reading of the scripture conveys the idea that the sun, which normally moves across the heaven, stopped in its tracks and stayed there in the middle of the sky for about a whole day, right? Same with the moon, right? And surely the addition of the word “whole” conveys a 24 hour day, as opposed to the 12 normal hours of daylight, right? Otherwise what would be the point? (I guess Joshua might have given the command at noon or something, and the sun remained out another 12 hours instead of the normal 6 hours that would usually be left to the day. But either way, a solar eclipse is out of the question.)
Do you understand the question I keep asking you? I realize you have a list of how it could mean this or it could be referring to that. I’m asking you why it can’t mean that the sun, which normally moves across the sky, stopped in place for a whole day.
Understand? In other words, I don’t want your next comment to be: Well, it appears the solar eclipse thing doesn’t work… but maybe God stopped the earth from spinning. Or: Maybe the writer was just recording what he saw from his own perspective.
Instead, I want an HONEST and DIRECT answer to WHY it CAN’T be EXACTLY as the scripture clearly describes it.
T8: The brightly lit portion of the moon is illuminated directly by the sun. The rest of the moon is still visible because of earthshine or sunshine reflecting off Earth.
Okay, that’s the “parroting what other people have told you” answer. Have you looked into this earthshine claim? I have. Let me give you the short version…
Notice it happens on a clear NIGHT with CRESCENT moons. But does the diagram show the observer on the night part of the earth? Nope. You know why that and a dozen other diagrams of the same thing all show the observer on the day side of the earth? Because that’s the only way they can sell the idea that sunlight is bouncing off the day side of the earth and reflecting back to the moon – which also has to be on the day side of the earth to catch the reflection. Check it out for yourself. Google “earthshine diagrams”.
If you search long enough, you will eventually be able to find a couple that have the observer on the night side of the earth, like this one…
But look at the impossible angles of the reflection. How can light bounce off the front of the front ball and hit the back of the back ball? Dude should have drew his reflection pattern like this…
Also, remember that the first image (by a science teacher) says it only happens with CRESCENT moons. That’s because anything from 1st quarter all the way to 3rd quarter requires the moon to even with or well beyond the day side of the earth…
See what I mean? Only waxing and waning crescents are in a position to capture sunlight reflected from the earth. So what then do we make of this waxing gibbous earthshine I captured?
Look again at the moon phase diagram. Look at where a waxing gibbous moon is in relation to the earth and sun. Now tell me how light from the sun could have reflected off the day side of the earth and hit the back side of this waxing gibbous moon. And not only a tiny portion of the back side of the moon… but enough to light the entire half that is visible from earth.
T8, you need to dig deeper. Become more of an independent thinker/researcher and less of a person who just blindly parrots things he’s been told. You know… more of the honest and open truth seeker you claim to be. Oh, and remember that each one of these “proofs” I and D4T shoot down is one less in your bag of “overwhelming” heliocentric proofs. That bag’s got to be feeling a little light these days, huh? I think you’re down to:
- I, T8, have personally verified with my own eyes that Antarctic is a continent.
- I, T8, have personally verified with my own measurements all distances between land masses in the southern hemisphere.
- I, T8, saw a light in the sky and have personally verified that it was a space craft travelling in the vacuum of space at 17,500 mph – in geosynchronous orbit around the earth. Oh, and that it was in the thermosphere where it’s 4000 degrees, and that it’s made mostly of aluminum, which melts at 1600 degrees.
Earthshine claim? All objects reflect light. Even black objects reflect light even though they mostly absorb it. Otherwise you wouldn’t see them. BTW, the earth is not black, so it reflects light back onto the moon. Pretty obvious then that sunlight can light up the moon and the earth with reflected light from earth lighting up the part of the moon that the sun is not directly shining on. Look at the pic again and use your imagination. It is logical. Light travels round corners when it is reflected.
And what do you mean by parroting? Obviously I do not work everything out on my own. Shocking I know. I don’t even own the videos I share. But this matters not to me because searching for truth means standing on other peoples shoulders. I guess everything you write was thought up by you and you alone. Congratulations on that. You are a better man than me in that respect.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
