Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,745 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  t8 7 hours ago.

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  • #834139
     Dig4truth 
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    Here’s a nest visible test from 50 miles away!  (2 min.)

     

     

    There should be over 900 feet of missing sight due to curvature, but there isn’t.

    #834152
     mikeboll64 
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    D4T:  Mike, great capture of the fading moon! Musta gone behind a tree ; )

    Arghh… don’t remind me!  🙂  As D4T knows already, the moon fade video was my third attempt this past weekend.  I spent 6 hours filming on Saturday, just to have the moon go behind a house before it faded.  Then I changed locations and spent another 6 hours Sunday, just to have the moon sink behind a tree before it faded.  (I was sure it would fade before sinking that low in the skyline.)  The final attempt was Monday, and that 40 seconds of video amounts to 4 hours of work for me.  I am learning some tricks and getting better as I go, so once the weather gets below 100 in Phoenix, I have a lot of videos planned.  My P1000 should be in this month, and I’ll immediately send the P900 off for IR conversion.  I can’t wait to put them side by side to show how much of these distant objects are there, but being hidden atmosplanic haze… like the bottoms of the buildings in the Chicago skyline photo.

    D4T:  LU, I’ll see your 4 miles and raise you 20. The obvious problem with their test was that it was not level.

    I can’t top that answer, but I’ll add another one done by an old man and his wife…

    I have it queued to the results part, where his camera is on the ground and his wife is holding the laser on the ground 7.5 miles away.  So what then to make of the test Kathi linked?  Well, a little research tells you it was propaganda.

    1. First of all, these are claimed in the video to be three “regular” people, but both of the girls are scientists.  The black girl even says she’s not a scientist in the video, but in an earlier video of her, she claims multiple times to be a scientist – and she is.  The Asian girl works for the  science/media relations department at NASA.  So the entire setup is a deception.

    2. For every flat earther laser test (like the ones D4T and I linked and many, many others), the immediate claim is “Refraction!”   We’re told the laser light is refracting right along the curve of the earth, and showing up in the camera even though the laser itself is well behind the curve.  But wouldn’t you know it – Hawking and his crew of “regular everyday non-scientist people” got results that were perfectly in line with what they should get with the 8 inches per mile squared rule, thereby proving the globe.  At 3 miles out, the laser hit exactly at 6 feet.  At 6 miles out, the laser was exactly 24 feet above the ground.  So apparently “Refraction!” isn’t an issue after all – or they would have gotten the same skewed refracted results that they claim all of our tests get, right?  So by showing that the laser hit exactly where it should have at 3 and 6 miles distance, they destroyed the refraction excuse the globers use on our tests, while simultaneously confirming that 8 inches per mile squared is indeed the correct curvature formula for a ball 25,000 miles in circumference.

    3. They showed some footage and claimed the laser was 2′ 7″ off the water – but they never showed them leveling the laser.  So was it level?  Or aiming up at just the right angle to match the 8 inches per mile squared formula?  Well, look at this screenshot of the 1:33 mark of the video…

    Hawking says they are 500 feet from the laser at that point, but 500 feet gives a drop of like a 10th of an inch.  So if there is supposed to be no measurable drop at 500 feet, why does that laser beam look quite a bit higher than the 2′ 7″ off the water that it should be?  Looks to me like the laser beam is already at 4 feet off the water – which tells us the laser was tilted upwards instead of being level.

    4.  And finally, there is undeniable evidence that the helicopter was a CGI addition to the footage.  When showing the opposite shore before the helicopter arrives, there are three birds floating past in the water.  In the helicopter landing scene, the same three birds are in the exact same place, doing the exact same thing.  They overlaid the helicopter onto the original footage of the opposite shore line.  You can see this for yourself here…

    And if that’s not enough for you, feel free to watch the Globebusters episode from 3 weeks ago, where they dedicated most of the 3.75 hour show to debunking everything about that PBS special…

    In summary, what they did on that PBS program wasn’t science – it was deliberately deceptive propaganda designed to produce exactly the results they wanted it to produce, thereby pulling yet another fast one on their blind followers.

    But Kathi, I’ve got to say that I’m pleased you’re at least still looking into it now and then.  I only wish you’d find a pro-flat earth video next time – and then compare what they show you (stuff you can see with your own eyes) with the flat earth debunking videos, and see which ones ring closer to observational and Biblical truth.  I suggest starting with the DITRH YouTube channel.  He was an angry atheistic evolutionist who wouldn’t even listen to anyone who brought up flat earth.  Then he finally got sick of hearing about it, and set out to debunk it once and for all.  Only he couldn’t.  And the more he tried, the more he started seeing through the world of lies they’ve been foisting on us for 3 centuries.  Now he is one of our most outspoken proponents, and a firm believer in creation.  He’s not 100% down with the God of the Bible yet, but he at least knows that we and our world were created.   Anyway, the vast majority of his videos are less than 3 minutes.  I made a 2 minute video of his testimonial, if you’re interested…

    His videos are humorous, and make good points very quickly.  Please give him an hour or two of your time.

    Another great one is The Potter’s Clay YouTube channel.  He is a strong Christian who also produces very short, humorous and entertaining videos.

    #834155
     mikeboll64 
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    D4T:  Here’s a nest visible test from 50 miles away!  (2 min.)

    There should be over 900 feet of missing sight due to curvature, but there isn’t.

    That’s from the same dude who did the IR LA photo I’ve been trying to get T8 to address.  Have you seen his latest?  He was flying from LA to Florida, and captured IR footage of some of the Rocky Mountains – from over 500 miles away!

    It’s a long video, but he shows you the punch line in the first minute.

    #834158
     Dig4truth 
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    Wow! Where to begin!?

    Mike, thanks for the research on the phony video! I didn’t know about that but my gut was telling me that something wasn’t right. How desperate do you have to be to fake a simple video like that, or a simple hole in a “space station”?

    By the way, I did watch the IR photography video. It was long but amazing!

    The guy that did the laser test with his wife was cool, no pun intended (it was on snow and ice). I have seen this before, perhaps several times. His testimony is sincere and heartfelt and very moving.

    I hope that LU can see the evidence that the video she posted was more propaganda than science and I hope she takes you up on viewing some pro-FE videos to see who is really telling the truth.

    You know it really strikes me that we must decide who we will believe. Either the ones who have been shown – and admitted to staging (a polite word for lying) their videos or the Word of God.

     

    Mike and I are providing evidence to support the Word of God. It would be nice to see others looking at it with an open mind and prayer. Some are comfortable in their “scientific” positions but as my father used to say; “If everything is coming your way, your in the wrong lane!”

    My best advice is to look at the Word of God. It is not a collection of ancient goat herders that simply could not understand the advances we have made in science, i.e. “scientism”. It is the inspired Words of the Creator. Think about that one!

    We all think that our time is all there is. It is not. There is eternity. And when you look back you will see that we don’t understand the past very well and we know that the future is only certain in God’s mind. That leaves us in a precarious position of thinking we have figured it all out in our present time. This, to me, is a risky proposition. We can rely on ourselves or other authorities but we know down deep that the buck stops at the Throne. Can we trust ourselves? Should we?

     

    Trust in the Lord with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him,
    And He will make your paths straight.

     

    Straight or curved seems a secondary issue. Whom do you trust is the key.

    He told Gideon that there were too many men for battle! Seems like a bad plan but it turned out right. He trusted in the Lord.

    He told Elijah who to confront hundreds of pagan priests. He told him to put water, lots of water on the firewood! It turned out good. But it was contrary to his understanding but he trusted.

    He told Peter to throw down the net on the other side of the boat after not catching anything. Sounds crazy but he trusted. It turned out wonderful.

    Whom will you trust? NASA, Sagan, Neil DeGrass or the Creator?

     

    Before Elijah confronted the pagan priests he asked the people, “how long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the Lord is God then follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people did not answer. How sad!

     

    #834220
     t8 
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    Sorry guys, I have been inundated with work in the last month. I’m hoping things calm down soon and I can return to post here.

    In the meantime, I watched the punchline in the video above.

    My immediate response is this must be possible to see at 30,000 feet. There is a mistake somewhere, but I have no time to figure it all out. The thing is a video like this and a photo like that, is not enough to outweigh the huge body of evidence for a globe earth. These are just misunderstandings. The only people who really care to search out things on this subject are Flat Earthers and they are simply not going to try and prove the globe earth where there is evidence. Globe Earthers or just most people have little to no reason to believe otherwise and so cannot be bothered checking this out and just trust that a mistake has been made. I suppose you could look at this like the Hollow Earth theory. Most people couldn’t care less about that theory because a photo here and testimony there is not enough to sway people to really look into it compared to the body of evidence they have seen in their lifetime.

    In saying this, I can see that more mainstream articles are now addressing the Flat Earth theory because of all the noise the Flat Earth community is making. I just hope that people do not blame all this on the Bible because that will inevitably cost souls for the Kingdom. Here is an article that appeared the other day.
    https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/10/heres-how-people-start-believing-the-earth-is-flat-according-to-science-7929546/

    Notice that the way people get involved according to the article is exactly the way you guys got involved, i.e.,

    Senior author Celeste Kidd said, ‘If you use a crazy theory to make a correct prediction a couple of times, you can get stuck in that belief and may not be as interested in gathering more information.’

    Marti said, ‘What we found interesting is that they could get the first 19 guesses in a row wrong, but if they got the last five right, they felt very confident. ‘It’s not that they weren’t paying attention, they were learning what a Daxxy was, but they weren’t using most of what they learned to inform their certainty.’

    #834239
     Dig4truth 
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    It’s funny that the facts are secondary but the people and their motives are questioned as a primary concern.

    Yes, the Bible does have a lot to say about the creation and as Dr Michael Heiser has explained it does teach a plane earth with pillars and a firmament. Unless one is assuming that their credentials and understanding of the ancient Hebrew texts are superior to his the least one should do is take it under advisement.

    Then there are the plethora of testimonies, many of which have been repeated on this thread, that point to the positive aspects of this biblical position. Unlike the claimed harming effect of a more biblical position it can be demonstrated that just the opposite is actually occurring.

    Then there is the appeal to authority and the appeal to the masses. Concerning the latter, simply because a majority of the population believes something does not mean it’s correct (the path to life is narrow and FEW will follow it). And concerning the appeal to authority, unless one is unwilling to listen to the authorities in a particular subject like Dr Heiser, then you would be guilty of picking and choosing which information, i.e. “evidence” you listen to. In an ironic twist that is usually the claim that is made against us.

     

    #834269
     t8 
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    The facts are this. The globe earth has a ton of evidence. But flat Earthers simply write it all off as fake with no proof. Of course everyone can see this and simply laugh at the Flat Earthers for their lack of science methodology. And the little proof they rethink they have is simply based on misunderstanding. This is how it is.

    I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands. It is arrogant to say it is this big when people like me who have lived in both cities can confirm that it is not 3 times the distance as you assume.

    But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong. It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years. Atheists do it. Evolutionists do it. Tritararians do it. Flat Earthers do it. They love not the truth, so delusion is sent their way as punishment.

    #834286
     mikeboll64 
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    D4T, thanks for that beautiful post – second from the bottom on the previous page!  🙂

    T8:  The thing is a video like this and a photo like that, is not enough to outweigh the huge body of evidence for a globe earth.

    But it’s now a hundred videos like this, and a thousand photos like that, T8.  And virtually every bit of “the huge body of evidence for a globe earth has been thoroughly debunked, and the rest has been shown to be nothing more than story telling and special effects.

    You and Kathi couldn’t grasp the impossible top-down eclipse concept, but maybe you’ll be able to grasp this one…

    Notice that the moon is directly opposite the earth from the sun when it’s full.  Notice that the day side of the earth is the one facing the sun.  Consider that we can only see 180 degrees from where we are standing on earth.  Now tell me how on God’s flat earth can we see a full moon in the daytime?  Let me add some artwork…

    As you can see from the diagram above, I wouldn’t be able to see the full moon even if I was looking level across the horizon (not up in the sky) at the first sign of daybreak.  Yet I took this photo of a full moon one hour and 36 minutes after sunrise…

     

    (To be continued, due to data limits…)

     

    #834290
     mikeboll64 
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    Here is my meta data from that photo, so you know I’m not lying…

    And this is what that would look like in the heliocentric model…

    Can you see from the diagram that I wouldn’t be able to see even a gibbous moon an hour and a half after sunrise in the helical model… let alone a full moon like you see in the photo I took?  Or is this just another case of flat earthers being the only ones willing to take the time to wrap their heads around this stuff?

     

    #834300
     Dig4truth 
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    T8: “But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong. It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years. Atheists do it. Evolutionists do it. Tritararians do it. Flat Earthers do it. They love not the truth, so delusion is sent their way as punishment.”

     

    Wow, that would put you in a very small minority of people. Such an exclusive group that holds the lock and key to truth. I’m impressed.

    I would like to know more about this exclusive group that alone knows the truth. Is it the position of this group that says they believe the Bible but is willing to allow scientific “discoveries” to overwrite some of the biblical teachings that gives the edge on truth? Is it this flexibility that is unique to this group and thereby claims truth as a solitary prize?

    I’m curious because I want to see how much of the Word of God must be compromised for membership. You know, that old biblical thing about counting the cost.

    Thanks for your response in advance.

    #834302
     mikeboll64 
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    T8:  The facts are this. The globe earth has a ton of evidence.

    No it doesn’t.

    T8:  I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands.

    No you can’t.

    T8:  But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong.

    Unfortunately, that is true of the majority.

    T8:  It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years.

    Now you’re getting there.  The world is indeed full of lies and fantasies concocted by godless men.

    T8:  Atheists do it.

    But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that we really have no need for the God hypothesis, right?  Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?

    T8:  Evolutionists do it.

    But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that common descent evolution is proven science, right?  Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?

    T8:  Trinitarians do it.

    But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that our Creator is a 3-person Godhead, right?  Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?

    Are you starting to see a pattern here?

    T8:  Flat Earthers do it. 

    But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that we live on a ball that’s rotating at 1000 miles per hour, right?  And that water doesn’t seek its own level, but trillions of tons of it form a curve – half of it upside down, right?  And that rivers run uphill for thousands of miles, right?  And that our layer of breathable air is somehow velcroed to this ball, and constitutes the only occasion known to science where a pressurized body of gas exists adjacent to a powerful vacuum with no barrier, right? Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are RIGHT?

    It’s like the old kid’s song… “One of these things is not like the others.  One of these things just doesn’t belong…”  🙂

    Now what would make a person buck against the authority of experts when it comes to atheism, evolutionism, and Trinitarianism – but vehemently defend those same experts when it comes to the shape of the earth?  Ah… somebody has done a little research into the former three subjects, and found the expert evidence to be lacking – especially in light of what the scriptures teach, right?  I wonder what that person would find if he took the time to do a little open-minded research into the latter subject – especially in light of what the scriptures teach.  Hmm…

    And as a side note, surely the overwhelming consensus of experts and their “ton of evidence” for the former three subjects must be correct – or it would constitute a worldwide conspiracy involving billions of people, right?  Yet you say the experts are wrong on the former three subjects, right?  How did they get billions of people around the world to join this conspiracy of deception?

    #834303
     mikeboll64 
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    Hey D, glad to see you’re still among the living in the midst of the hurricane.  I believe Kathi is also from that general area.  I pray you guys and your families stay safe and sound.

    #834309
     Dig4truth 
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    Mike, excellent way to make your point to t8.

    Yep, we survived what turned out to be really a non-event. A lot of rain and some moderate winds that did no damage around here from what I can tell. I do feel for the people who took the brunt of it.

    #834327
     Dig4truth 
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    I know some need a little help here. This may do the trick.

     

     

     

    #834362
     t8 
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    T8: I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands.

    Mike: No you can’t.

    Love it Mike. I have seen the ISS and your response is no you haven’t.
    I have traveled from NZ to Perth and can testify that the distance is but a fraction of what a Flat Earth map says. And your response is again, “No you can’t”.

    Thank you for demonstrating clearly that evidence you disagree with is not tested, but only has your biased opinion applied to it.

    lol.

    #834363
     t8 
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    Seen as how this discussion is more on the funny side, I decided to post this.

    Actually someone is doing what I said Flat Earthers needed to do for themselves so that they realise what most of us already know. Perhaps you wanna hit this guy up and get involved?

    #834364
     t8 
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    lol, Dig. That video you posted doesn’t do the trick. So much refuted points that I can’t be bothered to answer them all.

    There are plenty of videos that show the globe earth, but like Mike, you just apply bias and say they are all fake with no proof.

    WHen scripture says knowledge shall increase, I guess it also doesn’t say that all would understand it.

    #834369
     mikeboll64 
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    T8:  Love it Mike. I have seen the ISS and your response is no you haven’t.
    I have traveled from NZ to Perth and can testify that the distance is but a fraction of what a Flat Earth map says. And your response is again, “No you can’t”.

    Thank you for demonstrating clearly that evidence you disagree with is not tested, but only has your biased opinion applied to it.

    lol.

    I saw the ISS last night…

    I tried a video, but couldn’t get my new P1000 to focus properly on such a fast moving zoomed in object.  So then I tried a couple photos, but shooting into the dark night sky calls for a long exposure, and I was hand holding the camera.  So the apparent movement in the image above is just my unsteady hands over the course of a full second of exposure.  But the point is that I saw a light moving across the sky – right where they said the ISS would be travelling at that time.  Do you understand what I’m saying now?  Did I actually see a space craft moving 17,500 miles per hour while orbiting a ball earth at 250 miles up?  How could I possibly know such a thing by observing a light skit across the sky?

    Likewise, you saw a light skit across the sky.  How were you able to verify that it was an aluminum (melts at 1600 degrees) space craft orbiting in the thermosphere (temperature 4000 degrees)?

    Same with travelling from NZ to Perth… how exactly did you verify the distance?

    I await your response to the 3rd, 4th, and 6th post on this page.  I’ve given up waiting for answers in the debate thread.

    #834390
     Dig4truth 
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    t8: “lol, Dig. That video you posted doesn’t do the trick. So much refuted points that I can’t be bothered to answer them all. There are plenty of videos that show the globe earth, but like Mike, you just apply bias and say they are all fake with no proof. WHen scripture says knowledge shall increase, I guess it also doesn’t say that all would understand it.”

     

    I would suspect that you cannot provide any refutation of the points in the video and that is the reason you fain apathy.

    It is always interesting when someone says something like, “there’s so much proof I can’t be bothered to respond”, etc.

    If the motive behind such a response is not patently obvious then let me state my view on it. Everybody loves to make a great point or counterpoint. To state the best evidence either for or against a position is why we are here. So, in order for someone to claim that the abundance of evidence is too great to even be bothered by a response is well, rather suspicious to say the least. Is it the inability to choose the best of a long list of support for your position or is it simply a smokescreen to deflect the damage that the counter position has leveled? I’m thinking – smokescreen, because like I said; we are all here to make brilliant points either for or against a position.

    Really, does the position that you know so much that you can’t be bothered to make a counterpoint seem valid? On a debate forum? Or does it rather sound like tuck tail and run? You be the judge.

    #834396
     mikeboll64 
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    Well said, D!  I would also point out that T8 is going out of his way to point out that people laugh at us.  He seems to be using “lol” quite frequently.  I wonder if he’s ever considered that his hero scientists laugh at him the same way for his belief in a Creator.  Of course, them laughing at him for his belief in God doesn’t affect him in any way, since he knows he has the real truth and real evidence on his side, and he who laughs last laughs the loudest, right?  So he just brushes it off as their ignorance and their loss, right?

    I wonder if he’s ever considered that we do the same with his ridicule, since we know we have the real truth and the real evidence on our side.  Hey T8, your “lols” don’t affect us in any way.  They only make you look too weak to actually address the points we bring to your attention.  Because after all, that’s all we’re doing here… bringing stuff to your attention in the hope that it will prompt you to think for yourself and do a little of your own research.  Because everybody knows you can lead a sheep to water, but you can’t make him drink.

    We’re only here to lead sheep to the water.

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