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Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.
SFyou mean i have assumed all things,
so if one believes in the trinity and someone else in the resurrection and some who do not do not ,
and so a little understanding between them would bring the truth of God ??
like the Pharisees and the sadducees ?
why is it Christ never taught about that one?
(there would have been less truth but more millionaires)Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,00:24) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.
SFyou mean i have assumed all things,
so if one believes in the trinity and someone else in the resurrection and some who do not do not ,
and so a little understanding between them would bring the truth of God ??
like the Pharisees and the sadducees ?
why is it Christ never taught about that one?
(there would have been less truth but more millionaires)Pierre
most people who believe in the Trinity dont even know what it truely means.and most who are against it, dont even know what it means.
its all assumptions.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,22:04) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,00:24) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.
SFyou mean i have assumed all things,
so if one believes in the trinity and someone else in the resurrection and some who do not do not ,
and so a little understanding between them would bring the truth of God ??
like the Pharisees and the sadducees ?
why is it Christ never taught about that one?
(there would have been less truth but more millionaires)Pierre
most people who believe in the Trinity dont even know what it truely means.and most who are against it, dont even know what it means.
its all assumptions.
SFhow many times someone has to speak falselly about the truth of God before we can call him a liar according to the word of God.
you talk many time about words and meanings of words somes even go to say that God is male and female.you may accept this kind of discussion ,I do not ,i do not waste time to talk about words and meaning of them beside what it means normaly in a dictionary.
and it is not because of my age difference ,it is because of my perseption of truth seems different than yoursSF; wen you talk or rwight you are making taughts who are desires,feelings and by them you create a spirit of meanings,
those meanings become your mark ,i am sure you know that it is the angel who are separating the sheep from the rest of the waste,and it is also them who mark and seal the righteous ones who have the same spirit than Christ.so if you believe in truth and in the word of God why is it that the truth is not the most importante thing in your live,
it is in mine.in scriptures, the word of God there are no maybees,it is for or against Christ
what you think?
Pierre
Here is a quote from Athenagoras and you certainly won't find the idea of three 'persons' here:
Quote CHAPTER X.—THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIP THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY GHOST.
That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable, by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being—I have sufficiently demonstrated. , for we acknowledge also a Son of God. Nor let any one think it ridiculous that God should have a Son. For though the poets, in their fictions, represent the gods as no better than men, our mode of thinking is not the same as theirs, concerning either God the Father or the Son. But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him727727 “Or, by Him and through Him.” [Kaye, pp. 155, 175.] were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence,728728 [Kaye, p. 166.] it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. “The Lord,” it says, “made me, the beginning of His ways to His works.”729729 Prov. viii. 22. The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,730730 [Compare Theophilus, supra, p. 101, and Kaye’s note, p. 156.] and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? Nor is our teaching in what relates to the divine nature confined to these points; but we recognise also a multitude of angels and ministers,731731 [Heb. i. 14, the express doctrine of St. Paul. They are ministers to men, not objects of any sort of worship. “Let no man beguile you,” etc. Col. ii. 4, 18.] whom God the Maker and Framer of the world distributed and appointed
134
to their several posts by His Logos, to occupy themselves about the elements, and the heavens, and the world, and the things in it, and the goodly ordering of them all.Kathy
CHAP. XII.–CONSEQUENT ABSURDITY OF THE CHARGE OF ATHEISM.
Should we, then, unless we believed that a God presides over the human race, thus purge ourselves from evil? Most certainly not. But, because we are persuaded that we shall give an account of everything in the present life to God, who made us and the world, we adopt a temperate and benovolent and generally despised method of life, believing that we shall suffer no such great evil here, even should our lives be taken from us, compared with what we shall there receive for our meek and benevolent and moderate life from the great Judge. Plato indeed has said that Minos and Rhadamanthus will judge and punish the wicked; but we say that, even if a man be Minos or Rhadamanthus himself, or their father, even he will not escape the judgment of God. Are, then, those who consider life. to be comprised in this, “Let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die,” and who regard death as a deep sleep and forgetfulness (“sleep and death, twin-brothers” ), to be accounted pious; while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity; and who know that the life for which we look is far better than can be described in words, provided we arrive at it pure from all wrong-doing; who, moreover, carry our benevolence to such an extent, that we not only love our friends (“for if ye love them,” He says, “that love you, and lend to them that lend to you, what reward will ye have?” ),–shall we, I say, when such is our character, and when we live such a life as this, that we may escape condemnation at last, not be accounted pious? These, however, are only small matters taken from great, and a few things from many, that we may not further trespass on your patience; for those who test honey and whey, judge by a small quantity whether the whole is good.did you read this part ??
CHAP. XII.–CONSEQUENT ABSURDITY OF THE CHARGE OF ATHEISM.
Should we, then, unless we believed that a God presides over the human race, thus purge ourselves from evil? Most certainly not. But, because we are persuaded that we shall give an account of everything in the present life to God, who made us and the world, we adopt a temperate and benovolent and generally despised method of life, believing that we shall suffer no such great evil here, even should our lives be taken from us, compared with what we shall there receive for our meek and benevolent and moderate life from the great Judge. Plato indeed has said that Minos and Rhadamanthus will judge and punish the wicked; but we say that, even if a man be Minos or Rhadamanthus himself, or their father, even he will not escape the judgment of God. Are, then, those who consider life. to be comprised in this, “Let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die,” and who regard death as a deep sleep and forgetfulness (“sleep and death, twin-brothers” ), to be accounted pious; while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity; and who know that the life for which we look is far better than can be described in words, provided we arrive at it pure from all wrong-doing; who, moreover, carry our benevolence to such an extent, that we not only love our friends (“for if ye love them,” He says, “that love you, and lend to them that lend to you, what reward will ye have?” ),–shall we, I say, when such is our character, and when we live such a life as this, that we may escape condemnation at last, not be accounted pious? These, however, are only small matters taken from great, and a few things from many, that we may not further trespass on your patience; for those who test honey and whey, judge by a small quantity whether the whole is good..
[/QUOTE]
Pierre
Pierre,
You are really having trouble with this quote box feature. When you are going to begin your quote, push the quote button, then paste your quote after that, then push your quote button again to end the quote and then your box will appear in your post.I am not sure what you were wanting me to look at in the above quote. Was it the word 'atheism.' Apparently the non-christians of the day, the idol worshippers thought that those who did not worship idols were atheists because in their minds, unless one was worshipping the idols, they had no gods.
They really had it backwards. This writer was showing whoever that the Christians really did believe in God or why else would they seek to live a temporate, benevolent, and generally despised method of life. Their faith in God is what compelled them to live in such a way and so obviously, they were a people that worshipped God. So, therefore the charge of atheism was ridiculous, they absolutely believed in God (just not the gods of the day that others worshipped).
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2010,14:40) Pierre,
You are really having trouble with this quote box feature. When you are going to begin your quote, push the quote button, then paste your quote after that, then push your quote button again to end the quote and then your box will appear in your post.I am not sure what you were wanting me to look at in the above quote. Was it the word 'atheism.' Apparently the non-christians of the day, the idol worshippers thought that those who did not worship idols were atheists because in their minds, unless one was worshipping the idols, they had no gods.
They really had it backwards. This writer was showing whoever that the Christians really did believe in God or why else would they seek to live a temporate, benevolent, and generally despised method of life. Their faith in God is what compelled them to live in such a way and so obviously, they were a people that worshipped God. So, therefore the charge of atheism was ridiculous, they absolutely believed in God (just not the gods of the day that others worshipped).
[did you read this part ??CHAP. XII.–CONSEQUENT ABSURDITY OF THE CHARGE OF ATHEISM.
Should we, then, unless we believed that a God presides over the human race, thus purge ourselves from evil? Most certainly not. But, because we are persuaded that we shall give an account of everything in the present life to God, who made us and the world, we adopt a temperate and benovolent and generally despised method of life, believing that we shall suffer no such great evil here, even should our lives be taken from us, compared with what we shall there receive for our meek and benevolent and moderate life from the great Judge. Plato indeed has said that Minos and Rhadamanthus will judge and punish the wicked; but we say that, even if a man be Minos or Rhadamanthus himself, or their father, even he will not escape the judgment of God. Are, then, those who consider life. to be comprised in this, “Let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die,” and who regard death as a deep sleep and forgetfulness (“sleep and death, twin-brothers” ), to be accounted pious; while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity; and who know that the life for which we look is far better than can be described in words, provided we arrive at it pure from all wrong-doing; who, moreover, carry our benevolence to such an extent, that we not only love our friends (“for if ye love them,” He says, “that love you, and lend to them that lend to you, what reward will ye have?” ),–shall we, I say, when such is our character, and when we live such a life as this, that we may escape condemnation at last, not be accounted pious? These, however, are only small matters taken from great, and a few things from many, that we may not further trespass on your patience; for those who test honey and whey, judge by a small quantity whether the whole is good.read the text and see were Athenagoras talks about 3 persons QUOTE]
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2010,12:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2010,08:08) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 02 2010,15:47) Hello! This is going to be a very short post. If the Holy Spirit is a person, would He then not be His Father? 
I have asked this before and got no answer. Hope you WJ answer me this time….
Peace Irene
IreneI have answered you many times.
So let me take another approach.
If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say but an “it”, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary, then according to you an “it” is the Father of Jesus, is that right?
WJ
I hope you two don't mind if I butt in.If the holy spirit is a person, then that person, NOT THE FATHER, is the father of Jesus Christ, right?
I think that is what Irene is asking Keith.
mike
Mike Yes that is what I mean, and that is wrong, because Jehovah God is Jesus's Father….IreneQuote (JustAskin @ Aug. 29 2010,16:29) t8,
Your post was spot on.Terra,
WJ does see the truth but is afraid to accept it because it would mean alienation from his peers. Simple as!LU,
As can be seen from the numerous quotes: Many people had many ideas about 'Jesus' but yet there is only one answer, one true answer.Start by asking, 'What is [a] God?'
Then ask, 'Is it possible for there to be more than one God?'
Also ask, 'Can [a] God become 'not' [a] God?'
Try, 'What is the name of God?'
More, 'What is the name of the Father?',
And, What is the name of the Son?,
And, What is the name of the Holy Spirit?'And also ask, 'Why is the Son called 'the word' of God if he IS God?'
And finally, but not final, 'How, can God [as the Son] die, and be raised up again to a MORE glorious position, IF he were already God before he emptied himself and became flesh. To what 'more glorious' position could he have been raised to….and yet….still be subordinate to the Father, as God…and in what relation to the Holy Spirit?'
Good post, I could not have asked better….IreneQuote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,00:42) Here is a quote from Athenagoras and you certainly won't find the idea of three 'persons' here: Quote CHAPTER X.—THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIP THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY GHOST.
That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable, by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being—I have sufficiently demonstrated. , for we acknowledge also a Son of God. Nor let any one think it ridiculous that God should have a Son. For though the poets, in their fictions, represent the gods as no better than men, our mode of thinking is not the same as theirs, concerning either God the Father or the Son. But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him727727 “Or, by Him and through Him.” [Kaye, pp. 155, 175.] were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence,728728 [Kaye, p. 166.] it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. “The Lord,” it says, “made me, the beginning of His ways to His works.”729729 Prov. viii. 22. The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,730730 [Compare Theophilus, supra, p. 101, and Kaye’s note, p. 156.] and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? Nor is our teaching in what relates to the divine nature confined to these points; but we recognise also a multitude of angels and ministers,731731 [Heb. i. 14, the express doctrine of St. Paul. They are ministers to men, not objects of any sort of worship. “Let no man beguile you,” etc. Col. ii. 4, 18.] whom God the Maker and Framer of the world distributed and appointed
134
to their several posts by His Logos, to occupy themselves about the elements, and the heavens, and the world, and the things in it, and the goodly ordering of them all.
Pierre,
The Spirit is considered an effluence not a person. Look up the word effluence.And your welcome (about the other)
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,10:47) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,22:04) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,00:24) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.
SFyou mean i have assumed all things,
so if one believes in the trinity and someone else in the resurrection and some who do not do not ,
and so a little understanding between them would bring the truth of God ??
like the Pharisees and the sadducees ?
why is it Christ never taught about that one?
(there would have been less truth but more millionaires)Pierre
most people who believe in the Trinity dont even know what it truely means.and most who are against it, dont even know what it means.
its all assumptions.
SFhow many times someone has to speak falselly about the truth of God before we can call him a liar according to the word of God.
you talk many time about words and meanings of words somes even go to say that God is male and female.you may accept this kind of discussion ,I do not ,i do not waste time to talk about words and meaning of them beside what it means normaly in a dictionary.
and it is not because of my age difference ,it is because of my perseption of truth seems different than yoursSF; wen you talk or rwight you are making taughts who are desires,feelings and by them you create a spirit of meanings,
those meanings become your mark ,i am sure you know that it is the angel who are separating the sheep from the rest of the waste,and it is also them who mark and seal the righteous ones who have the same spirit than Christ.so if you believe in truth and in the word of God why is it that the truth is not the most importante thing in your live,
it is in mine.in scriptures, the word of God there are no maybees,it is for or against Christ
what you think?
Pierre
Terrarica,
The problem is its unnessary to call someone a liar if they truely believe a lie?
You see a REAL Liar is a person who DECIDES not to tell the truth.
If a person believes they are telling the truth, is it really lying? or being confused or decieved?You see you have to know the correct usage of terms to minister to people accordingly.
ITs very important to know the meaning of words,
BECUASE we know that THE WORD created this world.
So i find WORDS very important.
and ENGLISH words change meanings ALL the time.
For example
KJV- Replenish, presently means to “fill again”
look up Replenish in the time the KJV was created
it doesnt mean to “fill again”
at that time it only meant “to fill”You see?
ACtualy i dont believe God is male and female, but why not discuss it?
The Truth is in Hebrew the word for Spirit is feminine, the hebrew language, is it wrong to state fact?The Dictionary is more flawed than the KJV, so your putting your trust and faith on the dictionary?
No its because of your age and wherever your from is why we cant understand eachother.
Most of the time we agree, but we argue because i cant understand what your saying at times for your language barrier, and you cant understand me at times either, because i speak MODERN AMERICAN English.
No when i write in this forum, all you do is INTERPRET, whether you truely understand what i mean depends of you have the power to Discern the spiritual connection.
How can you say the truth is not the most imporant thing in my life?
based on what?
Are you bold enough to say that your never wrong Pierre?The Word of God is revealed by God, and through your relationship with Him.
ITs always for him, and mostly against us, beacuse it breaks us down and molds us into the way he wants us to be.I think you assume to much,
You THINK you know about what other people are saying,
but you really havent taken the time to understand, and actually “discern” what they mean, feel, and love about.Excerise your Faith and ask God to give you the ability to discern.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,13:29)
[SFthanks for your answer,
all what you have said was said to me 40 years ago by some of the elders in the church i was going at that time,
this is a men view of explaining that he does not have the spirit of truth,
he a spirit but he is full of men's view,why ?see your explanation God s spirit has no place in it .it is all intellect ,learned material,
as for calling a product lies ,you right we all do mistakes but ,look at what Jesus said to the Pharisees and Sadducee,
and they were the leaders of there people,just see it this way ,we can say thats alright no one is perfect,but then why change and try to become holy like Christ,or see it in the way of Christ if it is found that you have made a mistake face the the truth knowing God is watching,and sees our hearth.be found truthful in all your actions.the fact that you believe a lie that's not save you in anyway;
Eze 2:5 And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them.
Eze 2:6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house.
Eze 2:7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious.
Eze 2:8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”we know he talks about Christ.
Eze 2:5 And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them.
Eze 2:6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house.
Eze 2:7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious.
Eze 2:8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”Eze 3:10 And he said to me, “Son of man, listen carefully and take to heart all the words I speak to you
many of us place them self as judges of the word of God ,trying to find what is not there or without importance,
some have purchase a strong computer bible program and want to show how good they do toward all the others.
and so think that the knowledge they so disclose would bring glory to them,they believe in there hearths that they bring light to scriptures,what a deceit way.
the Word of God is more than words it is more than people it is all about GOD Glory and truth.
and the hands of the people of the land will tremble. I will deal with them according to their conduct, and by their own standards I will judge them. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
Pierre
Terrarica,Long ago,
when you were condemning me left and right,
I asked you to First Go to God and ask him about Me,What i Said was very spiritual but you didnt understand it,
It didnt get to you.What you see is intellect, see beyond that.
And correction i told you not to put your trust in the dictionary.
Here was the True message is sent you that you did not grasp in a very short sentence “Though they believe a lie, the Truth shall sent them free”
I believe that the Word of God is beyond just mere words.
But i guess you didnt understand,
=)Much love,
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 27 2010,21:58) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,13:29) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 26 2010,23:09) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,10:47) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,22:04) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,00:24) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,19:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,23:06) its funny how Lu and WJ agree the whole time in many apects in the beginning of this thread,
and only bc the silly trinitarian beliefs that things get all messed up.Trinitarians and Anti trinitarians… their all messed up
SFHOW??
Pierre
Because you based everything in assumptions,
and misunderstandings is your case.IF we were to simply understand eachother,
than we would be able to understand what we believe,
and in turn speak truth.
SFyou mean i have assumed all things,
so if one believes in the trinity and someone else in the resurrection and some who do not do not ,
and so a little understanding between them would bring the truth of God ??
like the Pharisees and the sadducees ?
why is it Christ never taught about that one?
(there would have been less truth but more millionaires)Pierre
most people who believe in the Trinity dont even know what it truely means.and most who are against it, dont even know what it means.
its all assumptions.
SFhow many times someone has to speak falselly about the truth of God before we can call him a liar according to the word of God.
you talk many time about words and meanings of words somes even go to say that God is male and female.you may accept this kind of discussion ,I do not ,i do not waste time to talk about words and meaning of them beside what it means normaly in a dictionary.
and it is not because of my age difference ,it is because of my perseption of truth seems different than yoursSF; wen you talk or rwight you are making taughts who are desires,feelings and by them you create a spirit of meanings,
those meanings become your mark ,i am sure you know that it is the angel who are separating the sheep from the rest of the waste,and it is also them who mark and seal the righteous ones who have the same spirit than Christ.so if you believe in truth and in the word of God why is it that the truth is not the most importante thing in your live,
it is in mine.in scriptures, the word of God there are no maybees,it is for or against Christ
what you think?
Pierre
Terrarica,
The problem is its unnessary to call someone a liar if they truely believe a lie?
You see a REAL Liar is a person who DECIDES not to tell the truth.
If a person believes they are telling the truth, is it really lying? or being confused or decieved?You see you have to know the correct usage of terms to minister to people accordingly.
ITs very important to know the meaning of words,
BECUASE we know that THE WORD created this world.
So i find WORDS very important.
and ENGLISH words change meanings ALL the time.
For example
KJV- Replenish, presently means to “fill again”
look up Replenish in the time the KJV was created
it doesnt mean to “fill again”
at that time it only meant “to fill”You see?
ACtualy i dont believe God is male and female, but why not discuss it?
The Truth is in Hebrew the word for Spirit is feminine, the hebrew language, is it wrong to state fact?The Dictionary is more flawed than the KJV, so your putting your trust and faith on the dictionary?
No its because of your age and wherever your from is why we cant understand eachother.
Most of the time we agree, but we argue because i cant understand what your saying at times for your language barrier, and you cant understand me at times either, because i speak MODERN AMERICAN English.
No when i write in this forum, all you do is INTERPRET, whether you truely understand what i mean depends of you have the power to Discern the spiritual connection.
How can you say the truth is not the most imporant thing in my life?
based on what?
Are you bold enough to say that your never wrong Pierre?The Word of God is revealed by God, and through your relationship with Him.
ITs always for him, and mostly against us, beacuse it breaks us down and molds us into the way he wants us to be.I think you assume to much,
You THINK you know about what other people are saying,
but you really havent taken the time to understand, and actually “discern” what they mean, feel, and love about.Excerise your Faith and ask God to give you the ability to discern.
SFthanks for your answer,
all what you have said was said to me 40 years ago by some of the elders in the church i was going at that time,
this is a men view of explaining that he does not have the spirit of truth,
he a spirit but he is full of men's view,why ?see your explanation God s spirit has no place in it .it is all intellect ,learned material,
as for calling a product lies ,you right we all do mistakes but ,look at what Jesus said to the Pharisees and Sadducee,
and they were the leaders of there people,just see it this way ,we can say thats alright no one is perfect,but then why change and try to become holy like Christ,or see it in the way of Christ if it is found that you have made a mistake face the the truth knowing God is watching,and sees our hearth.be found truthful in all your actions.the fact that you believe a lie that's not save you in anyway;
Eze 2:5 And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them.
Eze 2:6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified
by them, though they are a rebellious house.
Eze 2:7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious.
Eze 2:8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”we know he talks about Christ.
Eze 2:5 And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them.
Eze 2:6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house.
Eze 2:7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious.
Eze 2:8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”Eze 3:10 And he said to me, “Son of man, listen carefully and take to heart all the words I speak to you
many of us place them self as judges of the word of God ,trying to find what is not there or without importance,
some have purchase a strong computer bible program and want to show how good they do toward all the others.
and so think that the knowledge they so disclose would bring glory to them,they believe in there hearths that they bring light to scriptures,what a deceit way.
the Word of God is more than words it is more than people it is all about GOD Glory and truth.
and the hands of the people of the land will tremble. I will deal with them according to their conduct, and by their own standards I will judge them. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
Pierre
Terrarica,Long ago,
when you were condemning me left and right,
I asked you to First Go to God and ask him about Me,What i Said was very spiritual but you didnt understand it,
It didnt get to you.What you see is intellect, see beyond that.
And correction i told you not to put your trust in the dictionary.
Here was the True message is sent you that you did not grasp in a very short sentence “Though they believe a lie, the Truth shall sent them free”
I believe that the Word of God is beyond just mere words.
But i guess you didnt understand,
=)Much love,
SFyou think i do not understand what you are saying ,ho well ,
you also rearrange Scriptures;Jn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.you say;(Here was the True message is sent you that you did not grasp in a very short sentence “Though they believe a lie, the Truth shall sent them free”)
do you think the word you say have the same meaning ,than wen Jesus say them??
i believe that more you take from scriptures and separate scripture to analyze it and take new direction to interpretation you surely end up further away from the truth of God not closer
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,09:36)
SFyou think i do not understand what you are saying ,ho well ,
you also rearrange Scriptures;Jn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.you say;(Here was the True message is sent you that you did not grasp in a very short sentence “Though they believe a lie, the Truth shall sent them free”)
do you think the word you say have the same meaning ,than wen Jesus say them??
i believe that more you take from scriptures and separate scripture to analyze it and take new direction to interpretation you surely end up further away from the truth of God not closer
Pierre
Terra,
Who says i was trying to say someting OVER what Jesus said.ITs a very simple message and it means the same thing,
Your the over analyzer, over everything that i say and what others say.
be very careful of your judgemental nature,
The Truth is, i said that people can be freed by knowing the Truth,
EVEN THOUGH THEY BLIEVE A LIE, By telling them the truth, they can be freed.Telling them the truth about what they believe as the same affect.
This is what Paul did in Romans 1.
Pierre, stop harrassing people, and “act” like you know them, you are not working by the spirit, if you did than you would have understood and not judged so “critically” and understood my “intention” because the spirit knows my intentions.
There are times where you have good points, but when it comes to people, and who they are your way off base.
You come to spread violence and not truth, because truth brings conviction to the believer.
Its very simple, tell the people what they truely believe and they will see they believed a lie all this time.
This is what Jesus did, he exposed the false nature and than showed them truth.
You need to start praying for every single one of us, and if you dont than you should stop your judgments.
Interceed and keep your mouth closed,
LU,
I see that you can find no response to the questions and suggestion posted at the top of this page.Any reason why?
Terra and SF,
Please can you say why it is necessary to block quote every post from each other in every post , on the same page.
Is it 'aggressive posting', 'kneejerk responding' that causes this behaviour?
T8, Can quotes be made to be 'collapsible' ('yes', can you write it in: Style='height:10px' onclick='this.style.height='auto', simple, and neat!)
Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,11:48) LU,
I see that you can find no response to the questions and suggestion posted at the top of this page.Any reason why?
JA,
The purpose of this thread is to post writings of the early ante- nicene church father's in regards to the title “firstborn of all creation.”Read through the thread and notice what the different church fathers do generally agree on…seek unity and not in stirring up division.
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