Firstborn of/over all creation

[Anonymous]

Quote (csaliba @ April 21 2011,16:32)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 21 2011,13:33) Quote (csaliba @ April 20 2011,00:33) Jesus came to reveal the real God since in the old testament there are many gods. Hi Charles, There are many gods in both the OT and the NT.  But your own words that one person came to reveal another seems to indicate that the one person couldn't possibly BE the other he came to reveal. peace, mike Mike, No,The gospel is a proof that Jesus is the Son of God.The Truth. First the birth ,then the massacre of the innocents,then the three wise men,then the  presentation of Jesus in the temple, then John the Baptist,then Jesus baptism when He said suffer it now so it will be us to make all justice. By these words Jesus meant that through baptism He removed Satan's spirit for the first time from all souls and the world,then the reading of the scripture by Jesus in the synagogue,then John the baptist sending his disciples to ask Jesus if He is the one,then  he started eliminating the devils from souls,and raising the dead,and all those miracles as proof that He is within control of the situation.Then the most important display of the transfiguration with Moses and Elijah on mount Tabor. Jesus said that if one wants to steel a strong man's property he first must incarcerate the strong man then take his property,which means the souls.He said in John 9:5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.. Peace and love Charles

one more thing Mike,

What about all those prophecies in the old testament,which some of them were created by Satan himself without realizing that he himself is referring to Jesus Like Genesis 3 :5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. That means whoever eats from the fruit(Jesus) of the tree(Mary) becomes as God distinguish good from Evil. Jesus said you are gods.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Baker @ April 21 2011,11:39)

Charles!  What makes you think that the only begotten Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer.  i have never heard of that before. There is NO scripture that proves that.. 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Irene

Irene,
Tons of it.The incarnation within Lucifer is the most important concept that makes God, first as superior to Satan, second as the unique Love within Jesus Gospel to love your enemy,and do good to those who hate you,also since we were and still are Satan 's property, it is only through us, the only evidence that God is love,because we were dead and God gave us life within this planet through the sacrifice of His Son,first as spirit,than as a human.
God is even in Hell never mind in Satan. Everything is created by him,with him and for him,and everything is held by Him.

That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also be the opposite of God within the flesh.

This would decided through a test subject to mortality of which he as god of evil must be the tempter.Adam and Eve were the first two creatures who were tested and failed,so they became completely in every sense the opposite of God,and acquired Satan's dream flesh,not only,that but after the fall,humans became the worst,and the filthiest ever creatures ever existed,the main reason for god to flood again the world,with the excuse of justice,for the second time after trillions of years from the first flood caused also by Satan.That's why Jesus called him murderer from the beginning. I will explain why humans, through Satan's plan,became even more sinners and loved sin,in order for Satan,the accuser,the author of sin and death,to have justice as the main excuse and demanded death.

Rev:12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

I posted one to Kathi please do read it.

love

Charles

[Baker]

Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,01:51)

Quote (Baker @ April 21 2011,11:39) Charles!  What makes you think that the only begotten Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer.  i have never heard of that before. There is NO scripture that proves that.. 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Irene Irene, Tons of it.The incarnation within Lucifer is the most important concept that makes God, first as  superior to Satan, second as the unique Love within Jesus Gospel to love your enemy,and do good to those who hate you,also since we were and still are Satan 's property, it is  only through us, the only  evidence that God is love,because we were dead and God gave us life within this planet through the sacrifice of His Son,first as spirit,than as a human. God is even in Hell never mind in Satan. Everything is created by him,with him and for him,and everything is held by Him. That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh. This would decided through a test subject to mortality of which he as god of evil must be the tempter.Adam and Eve were the first two creatures who were tested and failed,so they became completely in every sense the opposite of  God,and acquired Satan's dream flesh,not only,that but after the fall,humans became the worst,and the filthiest ever creatures ever existed,the main reason for god to flood again  the world,with the excuse of justice,for the second time after trillions of years from the first flood caused also by Satan.That's why Jesus called him murderer from the beginning. I will explain why humans, through Satan's plan,became even more sinners and loved sin,in order for Satan,the accuser,the author of sin and death,to have justice as the main excuse and demanded death. Rev:12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.        I posted one to Kathi please do read it. love Charles

No my friend, Jesus was not incarnate within Lucifer, no way…..
Within Jesus was God's Holy Spirit full strength.  He never sinned.

Lucifer sinned and is never aloud to come close to Heavens gate.

I wonder if you misunderstand what incarnate means, or if I do….
Jesus cannot be within Lucifer, since He is sinless, and full of Gods Holy Spirit. The only time Jesus took sin upon Him, all of our sins that is,  right before Jesus died on the cross.  That is the only time that God had to distend Himself from Jesus. That is also when Jesus said”:  My God, my God why have you a banded Me.”
God right now lets Satan go and test s all man kind.  In the millennium He will be chained, and only the truth will be taught by Jesus and His Saints.

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

After the 1000 years are up, Satan will be loosed and will deceive many…..When Jesus The Word of God will have made all subject to Him, Jesus will give theKijgdom back to His Father so God be all in all.
1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Peace Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (csaliba @ April 20 2011,15:27)

Means that God incarnated his son as a sacrifice within Lucifer to recreate a new world through His Son based on good and evil.

WOW! Jesus is in Lucifer now?  

Where do these people come from?

WJ

[Baker]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2011,02:53)

Quote (csaliba @ April 20 2011,15:27) Means that God incarnated his son as a sacrifice within Lucifer to recreate a new world through His Son based on good and evil. WOW! Jesus is in Lucifer now?   Where do these people come from? WJ

WJ I have no idea………Did you read Her first post He made? I still have no clue what He believes…..
Peace irene

[Anonymous]

Quote (Baker @ April 22 2011,02:31)

Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,01:51) Quote (Baker @ April 21 2011,11:39) Charles!  What makes you think that the only begotten Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer.  i have never heard of that before. There is NO scripture that proves that.. 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Irene Irene, Tons of it.The incarnation within Lucifer is the most important concept that makes God, first as  superior to Satan, second as the unique Love within Jesus Gospel to love your enemy,and do good to those who hate you,also since we were and still are Satan 's property, it is  only through us, the only  evidence that God is love,because we were dead and God gave us life within this planet through the sacrifice of His Son,first as spirit,than as a human. God is even in Hell never mind in Satan. Everything is created by him,with him and for him,and everything is held by Him. That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh. This would decided through a test subject to mortality of which he as god of evil must be the tempter.Adam and Eve were the first two creatures who were tested and failed,so they became completely in every sense the opposite of  God,and acquired Satan's dream flesh,not only,that but after the fall,humans became the worst,and the filthiest ever creatures ever existed,the main reason for god to flood again  the world,with the excuse of justice,for the second time after trillions of years from the first flood caused also by Satan.That's why Jesus called him murderer from the beginning. I will explain why humans, through Satan's plan,became even more sinners and loved sin,in order for Satan,the accuser,the author of sin and death,to have justice as the main excuse and demanded death. Rev:12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.        I posted one to Kathi please do read it. love Charles No my friend, Jesus was not incarnate within Lucifer, no way….. Within Jesus was God's Holy Spirit full strength.  He never sinned. Lucifer sinned and is never aloud to come close to Heavens gate. I wonder if you misunderstand what incarnate means, or if I do…. Jesus cannot be within Lucifer, since He is sinless, and full of Gods Holy Spirit. The only time Jesus took sin upon Him, all of our sins that is,  right before Jesus died on the cross.  That is the only time that God had to distend Himself from Jesus. That is also when Jesus said”:  My God, my God why have you a banded Me.” God right now lets Satan go and test s all man kind.  In the millennium He will be chained, and only the truth will be taught by Jesus and His Saints. Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   After the 1000 years are up, Satan will be loosed and will deceive many…..When Jesus The Word of God will have made all subject to Him, Jesus will give theKijgdom back to His Father so God be all in all. 1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Peace Irene

Irene,

Jesus is OMNIPOTENT.

That's why Jesus had to be baptised so he could remove Satan and lock him in hell,and his Father said: to day I have begotten you

psalm 18:11:He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him.
Got it He made darkness his covering.How on earth you can't see it.Since darkness is Satan and made him his covering where is Jesus? Isn't He inside the covering?

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” THE WIND BLOWS WHEREVER IT PLEASES there's nothing absolutely nothing where and what the spirit of God can't do.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

THE SPIRIT THAT QUICKEETH,IT MEANS THE SPIRIT THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING IN A TWINKLE OF AN EYE.

1 Corinthians: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

[Baker]

Charles!  Jesus is not Omnipotent.  Only Jehovah God is.  Jesus is seated at the right hand of His Father.  it is by Jehovah Gods Holy Spirit that He is Omnipotent.  No other Being is.  
Also there is no Hell.  Hell is a whole in the ground, or grave.  Jesus went to Hell and on the third day He rose again.  Jesus did not have to be baptized, either.  He did that as an example for us to follow….

Psa 18:11   He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him [were] dark waters [and] thick clouds of the skies.  

This Scripture has nothing to do with either Satan or Jesus;
David who wrote the Psalms is simple saying that He is in stress because of all His enemies….

You asked where is Jesus?  Before Jesus became a Human man, He was with Jehovah God in Heaven.  In other words He preexisted His birth on earth.  
There are 50 Scripture that prove it.  i will give you some.  

Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:  

Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:  

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:  

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF GODS CREATION…

You quote

Jhn 6:62   [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?  

Jhn 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

look at verse 62, Jesus is explaining that He will be Spirit again, like He was before.  The Scriptures I gave you prove that. He also explains that the flesh profits nothing, in verse 63…….. Yes, the Saints and those that will be alive  when Jesus comes again,  will be changed in an twinkle of an eye…

.1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.  

Now look at this Scripture, because Adam sinned, Jesus who is called the second Adam was made a quickening Spirit……

To me when you say that Jesus is incarnate within Lucifer that is a shot in my Heart.  Jesus is our Savior who died for all of us, and you want to associate Jesus with Satan?   Jesus as a man was tested in the Desert by Stan, and Jesus would never sinned, He knew what was at stake if He did…..He was not incarnate within Satan….you gave no Scriptural prove……

Notice He is the beginning of Gods creation….

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
When all is said and done, and Jesus has put into submission all the enemies, Satan, His Demon, Ant-CXhrist and all wicked man, will get the Lake of Fire, which is called the second death.  Rev. check it out .  I think Rev. 20
Peace Irene

[Anonymous]

Quote (Baker @ April 22 2011,10:16)

Charles!  Jesus is not Omnipotent.  Only Jehovah God is.  Jesus is seated at the right hand of His Father.  it is by Jehovah Gods Holy Spirit that He is Omnipotent.  No other Being is.   Also there is no Hell.  Hell is a whole in the ground, or grave.  Jesus went to Hell and on the third day He rose again.  Jesus did not have to be baptized, either.  He did that as an example for us to follow…. Psa 18:11   He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him [were] dark waters [and] thick clouds of the skies.   This Scripture has nothing to do with either Satan or Jesus; David who wrote the Psalms is simple saying that He is in stress because of all His enemies…. You asked where is Jesus?  Before Jesus became a Human man, He was with Jehovah God in Heaven.  In other words He preexisted His birth on earth.   There are 50 Scripture that prove it.  i will give you some.   Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:   Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:   Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:   Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF GODS CREATION… You quote Jhn 6:62   [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?   Jhn 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. look at verse 62, Jesus is explaining that He will be Spirit again, like He was before.  The Scriptures I gave you prove that. He also explains that the flesh profits nothing, in verse 63…….. Yes, the Saints and those that will be alive  when Jesus comes again,  will be changed in an twinkle of an eye… .1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.   Now look at this Scripture, because Adam sinned, Jesus who is called the second Adam was made a quickening Spirit…… To me when you say that Jesus is incarnate within Lucifer that is a shot in my Heart.  Jesus is our Savior who died for all of us, and you want to associate Jesus with Satan?   Jesus as a man was tested in the Desert by Stan, and Jesus would never sinned, He knew what was at stake if He did…..He was not incarnate within Satan….you gave no Scriptural prove…… Notice He is the beginning of Gods creation…. Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. When all is said and done, and Jesus has put into submission all the enemies, Satan, His Demon, Ant-CXhrist and all wicked man, will get the Lake of Fire, which is called the second death.  Rev. check it out .  I think Rev. 20 Peace Irene

Irene,

This was a mystery even for Satan himself.He was convinced that God could never be born within that filthy flesh, which still is even now with the only exception of the elimination of Satan spirit by Jesus.
Jesus,couldn't be born it this filthiest ever planet if it was'n the omnipotence of God through the Holy Spirit in His Son.

Human's flesh in the world when it was the property of Satan was in a complete filth and only the Fathers,the genealogy of Mary and the Prophets were in the appropriate clean state of flesh through the Holy Spirit.that's why the genealogy of Mary took 4000 years to be established from Seth to Joachin.Then Jesus received a clean pure flesh from Mary and only then it was able for the Father's Spirit to enter within the womb of Mary for conception and to give birth to His Son.When Jesus came He eliminated Satan's Spirit both from Nature and from Humans,

John 4:36 Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. John:4:37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true.

Who are THE SOWER AND THE REAPER IF NOT Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God the Father.

Jesus never lost the divinity of GOD.Jesus was always God,Jesus was always omnipotent within and as the word of God.The first spiritual creation was created through the word of God and that is His Son Jesus.God the Father was always a mystery even to all of his angels for a time.His son revealed Him.

John 6:46 :No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

With every respect to you, but I don't know how on earth you cannot see this,and I'm not going to insist on it,I did my part and leave it at that ,I send love and peace within our Lord Jesus Christ

[Anonymous]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2011,06:30)

Quote (csaliba @ April 16 2011,09:03) Quote (Baker @ April 15 2011,03:08) Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,02:35) Hi All, I created so many questions and I don't know where I'm gonna start from.I'LL try to explain briefly on all points. First Baker I didn't thatr creation happened in a twinkle .Creation took trillions and trillions of years to create the spiritual creatures and also our world  but when the son was within the Father as the word (John 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.)Jesus said that he was in the Father and that He came from the Father. this world belonged and still belong to Lucifer(now Satan) as his responsibility to educate humans but then he rebbelled and flooded the world for the first time ever,because he felth that the only Just way for God to become man if He confront him as god of the world since it belonged to him and also to be a god of evil.Genesis 1:1 gap teory Read psalm 17.Genesis 1:2 Than God threw Lucifer and his angels as a punishment to create our world again with new principles of Good and Evil since there id a third of heavenly hosts as an opponent,that's why God said very good to tell us that he is refering to the new creation according to the new principles not very good as God wanted it,when God create something He creates it perfect and eccelent not very good. The void and dark place mean that the world was completely destroyed through Lucifer, that's why exactly afterwords there is (and the spirit of God moved over the waters)and then following it ( And God said: Be light made. And light was made.) Now this Light is the Son Jesus which God sent to the world as spirit using Him as a sacrifice buried within Luciifer's spirit to create the new world between Jesus as the righteous and Lucifer as the wicked without the awareness of Lucifer.which took trillions and trillions to create till Adam was created.sybolcally the tree of good and evil, and also us the flesh belong to Satan and the soul to God.I will continue later  it's time up for me.(parable of the hidden treasure) Hi again!   Let me ask you a question, I don't want to jump to a conclusion, what you mean. I have a problem understanding what you mean.  Did you say, that Lucifer (Satan) educated humans?  Please give a Scripture were it says that?? Also when you say that the Word of God, how do you understand that?  Because verse 14 says that The Word of God became flesh…. If I understand you right, you do believe in a gap theory do you?   Can I make a suggestion to you?  It would be easier for me to understand, if you would make Paragraphs…like I just did….no offense OK I don't believe the flesh is Sata's, the Spirit is from God and also the flesh.  God created us in His image, as there is a Spirit in man….The flesh will simply return to dust. Why do you believe that the flesh belongs to Satan? Peace and Love Irene Hi Baker, Ezekiel 28:13 :19 says it all if you reflect and meditate within the Holy Spirit.Lucifer was the archangel representing the Son that's why he  his name signify light as Jesus,and since Jesus was given everything by his Father to show his true entire Love,and Jesus did as he saw his Father did and gave everything to then Lucifer to be the sole proprietor of the world before the rebel,and also before Adam.trillions of trillions ago.Genesis 1: 2 is referring to the destruction of that world and a new world was recreate  within new principles of Good and Evil Psalm 18 not (17 sorry as I wrote in my first post).tells it all.18:4:19   Charles Hi the scriptures you quote Esi;18;4-19 is direct related to Christ and the nation of Israel. nothing to do with Lucifer Pierre

Pierre,

Your quote
the scriptures you quote Esi;18;4-19

is direct related to Christ and the nation of Israel.

nothing to do with Lucifer

For your information Israel are the souls which belong to Lucifer.

Since Lucifer rebelled God through the Incarnation of His Son transformed the spiritual body, since he was created,of Lucifer into souls. That's why the Jews never recognized and will never recognize Jesus as the Son of God.And that's why Jesus wanted to become a Jew to proof that He is superior to him(Satan)

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I want to write something completely different.

I recently met a piece of mystical writing while browsing within various mystical writings and I feel that I should post in order to be aware the Love in the wisdom of God the Father for us knowing that we are lovers of sin.

God the father explaining to St Catherine of Siena

How worldly people render glory and praise to GOD, whether they will or no.

“And so perfect is her vision that she sees the glory and praise of My Name, not so
much in the angelic nature as in the human, for, whether worldly people will or no,
they render glory and praise to My Name, not that they do so in the way they
should, loving Me above everything, but that My mercy shines in them, in that, in
the abundance of My charity, I give them time, and do not order the earth to open
and swallow them up on account of their sins. I even wait for them, and command
the earth to give them of her fruits, the sun to give them light and warmth, and the
sky to move above them. And in all things created and made for them, I use My
charity and mercy, withdrawing neither on account of their sins. I even give equally
to the sinner and the righteous man, and often more to the sinner than to the
righteous man, because the righteous man is able to endure privation, and I take
from him the goods of the world that he may the more abundantly enjoy the goods of heaven. So that in worldly men My mercy and charity shine, and they render
praise and glory to My Name, even when they persecute My servants; for they prove
in them the virtues of patience and charity, causing them to suffer humbly and offer
to Me their persecutions and injuries, thus turning them into My praise and glory.
“So that, whether they will or no, worldly people render to My Name praise and
glory, even when they intend to do Me infamy and wrong.”

[Wispring]

Hi csaliba,
What country do you currently reside in? I live in the U.S.A.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 21 2011,04:20)

Hi Ted, Thanks.  Can you show me where it says that the planets existed before the stars which were created on day four? Kathi

Kathi…. The Planets are stars of various proportions,asteroids are parts of planetary stars that exploded …..When David said….Who am I….that you are mindfull of me when I look at the majesty that is the heavens and the firmament that is the earth, he was acknowledgeing the entire creation and its complexity…It is still a complexity of which there is much conjecture and very little knowledge…For the sake of the six days of creation just as the earth was toho and bohu so was the rest of the universe….When the creation of the first day involved the seperation of the light from the darkness the sun was the giver of that light through the power of the eternal and the moon lite up the night…all indications are that these heavenly bodies were already existing…Gods plan to reproduce himself came into play after the fall…the likelyhood that the angels inhabited the entire universe is very feasable,because,as a result of the fall they ,meaning the planets, were also void and without light…..Our carbon dating of planetary rocks from the moon speaks to an existance in the millions of years…I have found that the scriptures sometimes suggest without being specific and if one employs logic in conjunction with God given understanding they can arrive at a conclusion that perhaps at latter date can be proven as God sees fit…IMHO God allowed man through the blessing of his creation of science to experience space travel first hand in order to show us what is to come when his kingdom and government is set up on this earht…

[Anonymous]

Quote (Wispring @ April 22 2011,20:36)

Hi csaliba,   What country do you currently reside in? I live in the U.S.A.                                        With Love and Respect,                                                Wispring

Hi Wispring,

I live in the region of the Mediterranean.

Is it sufficient?

love and peace
Charles

[Anonymous]

Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,17:37)

Quote (Baker @ April 22 2011,10:16) Charles!  Jesus is not Omnipotent.  Only Jehovah God is.  Jesus is seated at the right hand of His Father.  it is by Jehovah Gods Holy Spirit that He is Omnipotent.  No other Being is.   Also there is no Hell.  Hell is a whole in the ground, or grave.  Jesus went to Hell and on the third day He rose again.  Jesus did not have to be baptized, either.  He did that as an example for us to follow…. Psa 18:11   He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him [were] dark waters [and] thick clouds of the skies.   This Scripture has nothing to do with either Satan or Jesus; David who wrote the Psalms is simple saying that He is in stress because of all His enemies…. You asked where is Jesus?  Before Jesus became a Human man, He was with Jehovah God in Heaven.  In other words He preexisted His birth on earth.   There are 50 Scripture that prove it.  i will give you some.   Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:   Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:   Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:   Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF GODS CREATION… You quote Jhn 6:62   [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?   Jhn 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. look at verse 62, Jesus is explaining that He will be Spirit again, like He was before.  The Scriptures I gave you prove that. He also explains that the flesh profits nothing, in verse 63…….. Yes, the Saints and those that will be alive  when Jesus comes again,  will be changed in an twinkle of an eye… .1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.   Now look at this Scripture, because Adam sinned, Jesus who is called the second Adam was made a quickening Spirit…… To me when you say that Jesus is incarnate within Lucifer that is a shot in my Heart.  Jesus is our Savior who died for all of us, and you want to associate Jesus with Satan?   Jesus as a man was tested in the Desert by Stan, and Jesus would never sinned, He knew what was at stake if He did…..He was not incarnate within Satan….you gave no Scriptural prove…… Notice He is the beginning of Gods creation…. Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. When all is said and done, and Jesus has put into submission all the enemies, Satan, His Demon, Ant-CXhrist and all wicked man, will get the Lake of Fire, which is called the second death.  Rev. check it out .  I think Rev. 20 Peace Irene Irene, This was a mystery even for Satan himself.He was convinced that God could never be born within that filthy flesh, which still is even now with the only exception of the elimination of Satan spirit by Jesus. Jesus,couldn't be born it this filthiest ever planet if it was'n the omnipotence of God through the Holy Spirit in His Son. Human's flesh in the world when it was the property of Satan was in a complete filth and only the Fathers,the genealogy of Mary and the Prophets were in the appropriate clean state of flesh through the Holy Spirit.that's why the genealogy of Mary took 4000 years to be established from Seth to Joachin.Then Jesus received a clean pure flesh from Mary and only then it was able for the Father's Spirit to enter within the womb of Mary for conception and to give birth to His Son.When Jesus came He eliminated Satan's Spirit both from  Nature and from Humans,   John 4:36 Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. John:4:37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. Who are THE SOWER AND THE REAPER IF NOT Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God the Father. Jesus never lost the divinity of GOD.Jesus was always God,Jesus was always omnipotent within and as the word of  God.The first spiritual creation was created through the word of God and that is His Son Jesus.God the Father was always a mystery even to all of  his angels for a time.His son revealed Him. John 6:46 :No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.   With every respect to you, but  I don't know how on earth you cannot see this,and I'm not going to insist on it,I did my part and leave it at that ,I send love and peace within our Lord Jesus Christ

Irene,

 Jesus is not Omnipotent.  Only Jehovah God is.

Jesus is God in flesh.Son of God and Son of man

Even the Father is omnipotent through the Holy Spirit never mind His Son.
The Father acquired human body through Jesus.
The Father is within the Son, and the Son is within the Father and always have been like that from eternity to eternity,but through Jesus ,God became in human flesh, and also the Father will possess the human flesh on the last day when Jesus will give everything to the Father to be all in Him.

One more thing,all of the existing universes no matter how many are the fruit of Jesus' Spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father,so when we admire generally our world we admire Jesus spiritual fruit within the material,when Jesus died on the cross He first purified our world in order for him to be buried in a virgin womb of the earth and also in a brand new tomb.So Jesus was both born through womb and buried in a virgin womb
John6:51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The world and humanity were dead within the spirit,because Satan (darkness)was the proprietor .

Hereunder is a the oldest discovery of a Christian church in Israel,which proves that Jesus was always believed to be God.

The discovery is a third century Christian church with a tile floor inlaid with inscriptions. One of the inscriptions was a tribute to Jesus, “Akeptous, the God-loving, offered this table for (the) god Jesus Christ, as a remembrance.” Obviously, the discovery of a third century inscription calling Jesus God discredits the idea that Jesus was not worshipped until the fourth century (see Early (3rd Century A.D.) Christian Church at Megiddo, Israel for more information).

love and peace

Charles

[Baker]

Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,06:52)

Quote (Baker @ April 22 2011,02:31) Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,01:51) Quote (Baker @ April 21 2011,11:39) Charles!  What makes you think that the only begotten Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer.  i have never heard of that before. There is NO scripture that proves that.. 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Irene Irene, Tons of it.The incarnation within Lucifer is the most important concept that makes God, first as  superior to Satan, second as the unique Love within Jesus Gospel to love your enemy,and do good to those who hate you,also since we were and still are Satan 's property, it is  only through us, the only  evidence that God is love,because we were dead and God gave us life within this planet through the sacrifice of His Son,first as spirit,than as a human. God is even in Hell never mind in Satan. Everything is created by him,with him and for him,and everything is held by Him. That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh. This would decided through a test subject to mortality of which he as god of evil must be the tempter.Adam and Eve were the first two creatures who were tested and failed,so they became completely in every sense the opposite of  God,and acquired Satan's dream flesh,not only,that but after the fall,humans became the worst,and the filthiest ever creatures ever existed,the main reason for god to flood again  the world,with the excuse of justice,for the second time after trillions of years from the first flood caused also by Satan.That's why Jesus called him murderer from the beginning. I will explain why humans, through Satan's plan,became even more sinners and loved sin,in order for Satan,the accuser,the author of sin and death,to have justice as the main excuse and demanded death. Rev:12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.        I posted one to Kathi please do read it. love Charles No my friend, Jesus was not incarnate within Lucifer, no way….. Within Jesus was God's Holy Spirit full strength.  He never sinned. Lucifer sinned and is never aloud to come close to Heavens gate. I wonder if you misunderstand what incarnate means, or if I do…. Jesus cannot be within Lucifer, since He is sinless, and full of Gods Holy Spirit. The only time Jesus took sin upon Him, all of our sins that is,  right before Jesus died on the cross.  That is the only time that God had to distend Himself from Jesus. That is also when Jesus said”:  My God, my God why have you a banded Me.” God right now lets Satan go and test s all man kind.  In the millennium He will be chained, and only the truth will be taught by Jesus and His Saints. Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   After the 1000 years are up, Satan will be loosed and will deceive many…..When Jesus The Word of God will have made all subject to Him, Jesus will give theKijgdom back to His Father so God be all in all. 1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Peace Irene Irene, Jesus is OMNIPOTENT. That's why Jesus had to be baptised so he could remove Satan and lock him in hell,and his Father said: to day I have begotten you psalm 18:11:He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him. Got it He made darkness his covering.How on earth you can't see it.Since darkness is Satan and made him his covering where is Jesus? Isn't He inside the covering? John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” THE WIND BLOWS WHEREVER IT PLEASES there's nothing absolutely nothing where and what the spirit of God can't do. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. THE SPIRIT THAT QUICKEETH,IT MEANS THE SPIRIT THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING IN A TWINKLE OF AN EYE. 1 Corinthians: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Charles, did you change your mind, here you say Jesus is Omnipotent, and now you say God is, which is the truth……Peace Irene,

[Wispring]

Hi Charles,

Quote

That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh.

  What scripture are you using to base this assertion from?

                                        With Love and Respect,
                                                 Wispring

[Anonymous]

Quote (Wispring @ April 23 2011,14:41)

Hi Charles, Quote That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh.   What scripture are you using to base this assertion from?                                         With Love and Respect,                                                  Wispring

Wispring,

All scriptures confirm what I said ,but it is hidden within the writhing.Scripture is not to be understood literally.Scripture has four interpretations one Literal,one Spiritual,one spiritual land and material,and one cosmical.I am interested in the Spiritual(God)and Material(Satan) which represents ourselves.
Within us we feel that we are both negative and positive.The positive is our souls and the negative is our flesh,not body flesh only because the body is the image of God

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God, in the face of Christ Jesus

The you understand :For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, this means that the Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer through the power of the Holy Spirit in order to become man,because the world belonged to Lucifer.

:hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God, in the face of Christ Jesus this means that now the spirit of God is within us.

Love and peace

Charles

[Anonymous]

Quote (Baker @ April 23 2011,10:52)

Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,06:52) Quote (Baker @ April 22 2011,02:31) Quote (csaliba @ April 22 2011,01:51) Quote (Baker @ April 21 2011,11:39) Charles!  What makes you think that the only begotten Son of God was incarnated within Lucifer.  i have never heard of that before. There is NO scripture that proves that.. 1Th 5:21   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.   Irene Irene, Tons of it.The incarnation within Lucifer is the most important concept that makes God, first as  superior to Satan, second as the unique Love within Jesus Gospel to love your enemy,and do good to those who hate you,also since we were and still are Satan 's property, it is  only through us, the only  evidence that God is love,because we were dead and God gave us life within this planet through the sacrifice of His Son,first as spirit,than as a human. God is even in Hell never mind in Satan. Everything is created by him,with him and for him,and everything is held by Him. That's what it means two became one,the incarnation of the Son of God within Satan is fundamental. I explain.God wanted to become a visible carnal creature completely the opposite of God, and Lucifer insisted that since God is immortal, humans must also  be the opposite of God within the flesh. This would decided through a test subject to mortality of which he as god of evil must be the tempter.Adam and Eve were the first two creatures who were tested and failed,so they became completely in every sense the opposite of  God,and acquired Satan's dream flesh,not only,that but after the fall,humans became the worst,and the filthiest ever creatures ever existed,the main reason for god to flood again  the world,with the excuse of justice,for the second time after trillions of years from the first flood caused also by Satan.That's why Jesus called him murderer from the beginning. I will explain why humans, through Satan's plan,became even more sinners and loved sin,in order for Satan,the accuser,the author of sin and death,to have justice as the main excuse and demanded death. Rev:12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.        I posted one to Kathi please do read it. love Charles No my friend, Jesus was not incarnate within Lucifer, no way….. Within Jesus was God's Holy Spirit full strength.  He never sinned. Lucifer sinned and is never aloud to come close to Heavens gate. I wonder if you misunderstand what incarnate means, or if I do…. Jesus cannot be within Lucifer, since He is sinless, and full of Gods Holy Spirit. The only time Jesus took sin upon Him, all of our sins that is,  right before Jesus died on the cross.  That is the only time that God had to distend Himself from Jesus. That is also when Jesus said”:  My God, my God why have you a banded Me.” God right now lets Satan go and test s all man kind.  In the millennium He will be chained, and only the truth will be taught by Jesus and His Saints. Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   After the 1000 years are up, Satan will be loosed and will deceive many…..When Jesus The Word of God will have made all subject to Him, Jesus will give theKijgdom back to His Father so God be all in all. 1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Peace Irene Irene, Jesus is OMNIPOTENT. That's why Jesus had to be baptised so he could remove Satan and lock him in hell,and his Father said: to day I have begotten you psalm 18:11:He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him. Got it He made darkness his covering.How on earth you can't see it.Since darkness is Satan and made him his covering where is Jesus? Isn't He inside the covering? John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” THE WIND BLOWS WHEREVER IT PLEASES there's nothing absolutely nothing where and what the spirit of God can't do. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. THE SPIRIT THAT QUICKEETH,IT MEANS THE SPIRIT THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING IN A TWINKLE OF AN EYE. 1 Corinthians: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. Charles, did you change your mind, here you say Jesus is Omnipotent, and now you say God is, which is the truth……Peace Irene,

Irene,

You quoted (Jesus is not Omnipotent. Only Jehovah God is.)
all I did I simply wrote it so you could follow me.

[Wispring]

Hi csaliba,
What church do you attend that gives you this framework for scriptural understanding?

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[Anonymous]

Quote (Wispring @ April 23 2011,18:59)

Hi csaliba,  What church do you attend that gives you this framework for scriptural understanding?                                                            With Love and Respect,                                                               Wispring

wispring,
The Church of Jesus Christ.
If Jesus said: love your enemy,and do good to those who hates you.So Jesus loves Satan.He so loves Satan that He gave him,first everything when they were in harmony,and then He accepted all the principles which Lucifer introduced in order for God to become man within His planet for our salvation.

Lucifer insisted that since God is Love and omnipotent,there's only one just way to become man through a battle within his planet and under his new principles of good and evil,where he will be the evil god of the earth(as Saint Paul said) and he will be represented in whatever God creates in this new world,
after the destruction of the already existed one.He insisted that if both this man God, and His mother will eventually become above all creation,and he as god of the earth must become subject to them,first both the man and the woman should be subject to his test as proof that they are superior to him on earth since they are humans and he is god of the earth. So God as meek,omnipotent and love accepted and obeyed god of the earth in order to respect his plan based on the main new principle of good and evil. God sacrificed His Son through the incarnation and sent him back to earth to be able to recreate and save all creation.That was the only way out for us humans to be saved,no man was capable of achieving this.There 's nothing which exists in this world which is not based on negative and positive ,even our blood,body,and also between the soul which belong to God and the flesh ,which belong to Satan,even our Church has st. Peter who represents the carnal body of the church,and St. Paul who represents the soul of the church, St John represents the Spirit of the church,that's why Peter is weak,and Paul is strong,also John's gospel has nothing to do with the other three Gospels because it is spiritual and nalso mysteriously written,that'why also Peter received the Gospel through Jesus when he was alive,while Paul received it through a vision, and that's why Paul and Peter quarrelled to represent the conflict there is between the soul and the body within us,and Peter was a sinner fisherman while Paul was a Pharisee,always within a conflict to represent Jesus and Satan, and Jesus came to maintain that conflict between God's kingdom of heaven and god's kingdom of earth.

I came to make war not peace in the world.

love and peace in Jesus Christ

All this is within scriptures.Which I will indicate some of them.These things started trillions and trillions of years ago,and will remain yet for trillions and trillions more, and in our world which existed before Adam and Eve.

The story of the birth of Jakob and Esau,the parable of the treasure,the parable of the precious pearl, is the figurative story to this,and when you rely onto the Holy Spirit through your hearth it will be visible in front of your eyes,you have to stop practically on every word and meditate.

Genesis 1:1:4,1:6,1:1:14:18,Genesis 2:4,2:7,2:9,2:21:24
Genesis 3:12,3:15,Genesis 4:1:2 Genesis 25:22:25,All genesis 27,Psalm18:4:19,Iaiah 14:12:14,Ezekiel 28:12:18,Luke 10:18,10:22,Matthew 13:44:45,John6:63,and more and more and more.

[Author]

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