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Yes, Jesus is inheriting the fulfillment of a Man not of God. He will have the throne of David because he is not God, God sits on the throne of Heaven
Acts 13:34 (King James Version)
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Isaiah 55:3-4
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Luke 1:31-33 (King James Version)
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Not to mention his rulership
33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Acts 2:29-31 (King James Version)
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
And this is why Paul applies the verse of Prophecy
Hebrews 1:7-9 (King James Version)
7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The Kingdom is the kingdom of Jacob not the Kingdom of Heaven
Hebrews 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Now this throne of God is not the throne of David that Jesus inherited and this is proven by this:
Revelation 7:10-11 (King James Version)
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Now clearly I have explained this to you. See clearly and carefully the verse Rev 7:10 God which sitteth on The Throne and the Lamb. You do realize that the Lamb is Jesus but in reference to God notice it says OUR GOD so the Lamb is not OUR GOD also notice they fell on their faces and worshipped God not the Lamb
God Bless you always!
and also please remember this:
Mark 12
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
Once again God Bless!
Jesus does sit with God on God's throne however.
Similarly, we can sit with Christ on his throne.Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.Quote (t8 @ June 13 2009,13:30) Jesus does sit with God on God's throne however.
Similarly, we can sit with Christ on his throne.Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
You have even made it more certain as the scripture you gave proves further that Jesus has a throne that is not the throne of the Father which is the throne of God.Notice who owns the throne
“My Fathers throne”
Jesus also said:
Rev 3
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
This clearly says who is God alone, It is He The ONLY TRUE God
who is:
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Now in revelation he is talking after being ascended and he still says “My God”
bodhitharta said:
Quote You have even made it more certain as the scripture you gave proves further that Jesus has a throne that is not the throne of the Father which is the throne of God. Notice who owns the throne
“My Fathers throne”
bd,
You keep thinking you have dealt some kind of “death blow” to trinitarianism. Let me assure you that this is true ONLY in your own thinking.The throne of God is also the throne of the Lamb,
Quote And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it (Rev. 22:3). YHWH and Christ are the King of Israel (Isaiah 44:6 and John 12:12-15). If I have to actually cite John 12 that Christ is the King of Israel then you guys are hopeless.
t8 said:
Quote Jesus does sit with God on God's throne however.
Similarly, we can sit with Christ on his throne.Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.t8,
Take another look bro. Jesus said that they (not us) would be granted to sit with Christ on His throne. He did NOT say that the throne is their own. Revelation 22:3 says that the throne of God is Christ's own throne too,Quote And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it (Rev. 22:3). All these prophecies have been fulfilled anyway. The kingdom ended and we are now in the eternal new covenant age inwhich there is no Father and Son distinctions. It is just “God” now as He was before.
Sorry bd, no “death blow” yet.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 14 2009,16:30) bodhitharta said: Quote You have even made it more certain as the scripture you gave proves further that Jesus has a throne that is not the throne of the Father which is the throne of God. Notice who owns the throne
“My Fathers throne”
bd,
You keep thinking you have dealt some kind of “death blow” to trinitarianism. Let me assure you that this is true ONLY in your own thinking.The throne of God is also the throne of the Lamb,
Quote And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it (Rev. 22:3). YHWH and Christ are the King of Israel (Isaiah 44:6 and John 12:12-15). If I have to actually cite John 12 that Christ is the King of Israel then you guys are hopeless.
t8 said:
Quote Jesus does sit with God on God's throne however.
Similarly, we can sit with Christ on his throne.Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.t8,
Take another look bro. Jesus said that they (not us) would be granted to sit with Christ on His throne. He did NOT say that the throne is their own. Revelation 22:3 says that the throne of God is Christ's own throne too,Quote And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it (Rev. 22:3). All these prophecies have been fulfilled anyway. The kingdom ended and we are now in the eternal new covenant age inwhich there is no Father and Son distinctions. It is just “God” now as He was before.
Sorry bd, no “death blow” yet.
thinker
Then why is Jesus calling The Father “My God” in revelations pertaining to making those who overcome “a pillar in the temple of My God”?Revelation 22:3 (Young's Literal Translation)
3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,
Once again these are two different thrones. It really is the Final blow but it will take spiritual honesty for someone to see it.
when you see in Isaiah 44:6
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.Who is this “I” talking who is this “me”
Is Jesus talking or is it YHWH or is it the Holy Spirit and after you tell me which one then explain why that One says there is no God besides Me.
I have shown you through the scriptures now honestly pray to God and ask Him if this is the truth.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Then why is Jesus calling The Father “My God” in revelations pertaining to making those who overcome “a pillar in the temple of My God”? Trinitarian's confess that Christ was under God in His mediatorial capacity.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Revelation 22:3 (Young's Literal Translation) 3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,
Once again these are two different thrones. It really is the Final blow but it will take spiritual honesty for someone to see it.
It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.
Quote And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the lamb….And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it….(verses 1 & 3) It is ONE throne and it belongs to both God and the Lamb.
bodhitharta said:
Quote when you see in Isaiah 44:6 “I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.Who is this “I” talking who is this “me”
Is Jesus talking or is it YHWH or is it the Holy Spirit and after you tell me which one then explain why that One says there is no God besides Me.
I have already explained that it is Christ speaking. It must be Christ because YHWH identifies Himself as Israel's “goel” which means blood relative redeemer. Did the Father become Israel's blood relative? Of course not!
Christ claimed that he was the “First and the Last”,
*Rev. 1:11: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the last.”
* Rev. 1:17: “I am the First and the Last….”
*Rev. 22:13: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Okay, so YHWH makes three claims about Himself,
1. I am the King of Israel.
2. I am Israel's blood relative Redeemer
3. I am the First and the LastAll these names belong to Jesus
1. Jesus is the King of Israel (John 12)
2. Jesus is Israel's blood relative (Heb. 2:14) and Redeemer (Gal. 3:13; Rev. 5:9)
3. Jesus is the First and the last (Rev. 1:11,17; 22:13)bodhitharta said:
Quote I have shown you through the scriptures now honestly pray to God and ask Him if this is the truth. No! You have given only your favorite Scriptures. You have given me half truths. Half truths are lies. An honest person does not pick and choose which Scriptures he likes and doesn't like.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 14 2009,21:25) bodhitharta said: Quote Then why is Jesus calling The Father “My God” in revelations pertaining to making those who overcome “a pillar in the temple of My God”? Trinitarian's confess that Christ was under God in His mediatorial capacity.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Revelation 22:3 (Young's Literal Translation) 3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,
Once again these are two different thrones. It really is the Final blow but it will take spiritual honesty for someone to see it.
It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.
Quote And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the lamb….And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it….(verses 1 & 3) It is ONE throne and it belongs to both God and the Lamb.
bodhitharta said:
Quote when you see in Isaiah 44:6 “I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.Who is this “I” talking who is this “me”
Is Jesus talking or is it YHWH or is it the Holy Spirit and after you tell me which one then explain why that One says there is no God besides Me.
I have already explained that it is Christ speaking. It must be Christ because YHWH identifies Himself as Israel's “goel” which means blood relative redeemer. Did the Father become Israel's blood relative? Of course not!
Christ claimed that he was the “First and the Last”,
*Rev. 1:11: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the last.”
* Rev. 1:17: “I am the First and the Last….”
*Rev. 22:13: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Okay, so YHWH makes three claims about Himself,
1. I am the King of Israel.
2. I am Israel's blood relative Redeemer
3. I am the First and the LastAll these names belong to Jesus
1. Jesus is the King of Israel (John 12)
2. Jesus is Israel's blood relative (Heb. 2:14) and Redeemer (Gal. 3:13; Rev. 5:9)
3. Jesus is the First and the last (Rev. 1:11,17; 22:13)bodhitharta said:
Quote I have shown you through the scriptures now honestly pray to God and ask Him if this is the truth. No! You have given only your favorite Scriptures. You have given me half truths. Half truths are lies. An honest person does not pick and choose which Scriptures he likes and doesn't like.
thinker
Once again you made a fatal error while trying to prove your point:you said “It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.”
So obviously there is “God” and then there is “the lamb”
who in this scripture is God and who in this scripture is the lamb?
Quote (thethinker @ June 14 2009,21:25) bodhitharta said: Quote Then why is Jesus calling The Father “My God” in revelations pertaining to making those who overcome “a pillar in the temple of My God”? Trinitarian's confess that Christ was under God in His mediatorial capacity.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Revelation 22:3 (Young's Literal Translation) 3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,
Once again these are two different thrones. It really is the Final blow but it will take spiritual honesty for someone to see it.
It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.
Quote And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the lamb….And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it….(verses 1 & 3) It is ONE throne and it belongs to both God and the Lamb.
bodhitharta said:
Quote when you see in Isaiah 44:6 “I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.Who is this “I” talking who is this “me”
Is Jesus talking or is it YHWH or is it the Holy Spirit and after you tell me which one then explain why that One says there is no God besides Me.
I have already explained that it is Christ speaking. It must be Christ because YHWH identifies Himself as Israel's “goel” which means blood relative redeemer. Did the Father become Israel's blood relative? Of course not!
Christ claimed that he was the “First and the Last”,
*Rev. 1:11: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the last.”
* Rev. 1:17: “I am the First and the Last….”
*Rev. 22:13: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Okay, so YHWH makes three claims about Himself,
1. I am the King of Israel.
2. I am Israel's blood relative Redeemer
3. I am the First and the LastAll these names belong to Jesus
1. Jesus is the King of Israel (John 12)
2. Jesus is Israel's blood relative (Heb. 2:14) and Redeemer (Gal. 3:13; Rev. 5:9)
3. Jesus is the First and the last (Rev. 1:11,17; 22:13)bodhitharta said:
Quote I have shown you through the scriptures now honestly pray to God and ask Him if this is the truth. No! You have given only your favorite Scriptures. You have given me half truths. Half truths are lies. An honest person does not pick and choose which Scriptures he likes and doesn't like.
thinker
Hi TT,
We tire of the illogic that says.GOD SAYS THIS
JESUS SAYS THE SAME.
THEREFORE JESUS MUST BE GOD.Find it written and leave human ideas on the bookshelf.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Once again you made a fatal error while trying to prove your point: you said “It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.”
So obviously there is “God” and then there is “the lamb”
who in this scripture is God and who in this scripture is the lamb?
bd,
Not a “fatal error” as you say. Christ is depicted as a “Lamb” that was slain throughout the book so there would be an ordinal distinction. Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and worship in the book,
Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. Therefore, an ordinal distinction between God and the Lamb gives no support to anti-trinitarianism.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:16) Hi TT,
So the Lamb is not GOD?
Nick,
I said that the distinction was ordinal. See for yourself that both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship.Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
I believe you like to steer away from the real point.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:14) bodhitharta said: Quote Once again you made a fatal error while trying to prove your point: you said “It is said TWO times that the throne of God is also the throne of the lamb.”
So obviously there is “God” and then there is “the lamb”
who in this scripture is God and who in this scripture is the lamb?
bd,
Not a “fatal error” as you say. Christ is depicted as a “Lamb” that was slain throughout the book so there would be an ordinal distinction. Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and worship in the book,
Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. Therefore, an ordinal distinction between God and the Lamb gives no support to anti-trinitarianism.
thinker
Equal honor, glory and worship is not the question at the moment but once again you have made another fatal error and helped me prove my point as you wrote:“Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Therefore the one who sits on the throne is God. The lamb is not God because as you say the lamb is Christ.
The trinity states that God is the lamb and the lamb is God and I have shown you and better yet you have shown me that the Lamb is not God but is worthy of honor.
by the way Rev 5:12-14
Revelation 5:12-14 (King James Version)
12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
They worshipped God not the lamb but, yes blessing, honor and glory is due to the Lamb which you have proven is not God.
Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:16) Hi TT,
So the Lamb is not GOD?
Nick,
I said that the distinction was ordinal. See for yourself that both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship.Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
I believe you like to steer away from the real point.
thinker
Hi TT,
No matter what theological dressings you put on it the Lamb OF God is not that God we worship.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:16) Hi TT,
So the Lamb is not GOD?
Nick,
I said that the distinction was ordinal. See for yourself that both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship.Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
I believe you like to steer away from the real point.
thinker
Hi TT,
No matter what theological dressings you put on it the Lamb OF God is not that God we worship.
Nick,
So you don't believe that the Lamb is worthy?thinker
Hi TT,
All the faithful servants of God are to be honoured.
But by your own words the Lamb is WITH GOD.
How did you get conned into trinity?Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:16) Hi TT,
So the Lamb is not GOD?
Nick,
I said that the distinction was ordinal. See for yourself that both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship.Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
I believe you like to steer away from the real point.
thinker
Hi TT,
No matter what theological dressings you put on it the Lamb OF God is not that God we worship.
Nick,
So you don't believe that the Lamb is worthy?thinker
The lamb is worthy of all the honor, glory and blessings that God has given him, so now will you please confess that the Lamb is not God.also remember you cannot call the lamb “”God” lest you sin and say the Most High is the image of a beast such as a lamb which is a created thing.
This final blow is complete for those here and God willing it will spread to every website and every person.
God bless you TT because you have helped greatly towards ending this folly.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:53) Hi TT,
All the faithful servants of God are to be honoured.
But by your own words the Lamb is WITH GOD.
How did you get conned into trinity?
Nick,
So you are worthy as the Lamb because you are a “servant?” The twenty-four elders would fall down and worship you too?thinker
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