Fear of God

[942767]

Quote (Jodi @ Feb. 03 2009,10:23)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2009,14:12) Hi Jodi: You say: Quote The word of God tells us that GOD SAVED Jesus, that GOD kept Jesus from sin. Please give me the scriptures to which you are referring. Thanks Hi 94,  here is my understanding, 2 Corinthians 5:18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. How does obedience come? Through our own devices? No it is done through the work of God. Ezekiel 37:13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.' “ Did not God put His Spirit in Jesus which kept him from sin, making him perfectly obedient? Did not Jesus receive immortality, the eternal gift of life? Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. God's Spirit working in Jesus saved him from disobedience, it kept him from sin. Ro 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. The Spirit is life because it is what works righteousness. The Spirit of God is what kept Jesus from sin. 1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. From the beginning God knew of His plan where one man would bring sin into the world and another man would remove it. God uses His Spirit as He wills and it was according to God's will that Jesus would remain without sin. Hebrews 19:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hi Jodi:

I'll just focus on the following scripture and your comment:

You say:

Quote

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. How does obedience come? Through our own devices? No it is done through the work of God.

Jesus as well as we who are born again Christians are obeying our Father, our God through His Word. His Spirit dwells within us and leads us into all truths in His written Word. He keeps us from sin through this Word, but it was up to Jesus to obey Him, and it is up to us as born again Christians to obey also.

Quote

Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Not every individual has the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

Quote

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When a person is born again he is a babe in Christ and His Father God leads him by His Spirit in His Word and He learns to apply what he is taught to his daily living, the fruit of the Spirit, love, peace, joy, gentleness, goodness, temperance etc., is developed in him. We, then, are becoming like Jesus who is our example in all things.

The Holy Ghost does not take our “freedom to choose to obey or not to obey”.

This is what the Apostle Paul states:

Quote

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

My desire is God's very best for you and your family.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[meerkat]

Quote (SEEKING @ Feb. 03 2009,13:04)

meerkat,Feb. wrote: [/quote] Meerkat, Thank you for being candid. I am striving to find the “love walk.” For a long time I was persuaded that one had to be “right” with perfect doctrine, right dividing, and the usual jargon. My experience in these groups is that their pundits are rude, unkind, judgemental, etc. One day I reallty settled in on 1Cor. 13:4-7 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. What I did see was “we have the right gifts, we are suffering servants, we have the correct understanding” as their proof they were the enlightened ones. But then I considered 1Cor.13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. I was convicted they made a lot of noise but bore fruit inconsistent with the word. Jesus said it is by their fruit you will know them. I am thanful some are illuminating these ill spirited attitudes on these forums. Do I claim not to be guilty? No, I have actually probably been a part of the problem. I REPENT! and am forgiven!! It is difficult to find like minded folk. I had thought perhaps it was what these forums were about. Defebders of the “truth” easily forget with “meekness and gentleness in all humility”. Thanks! It has been refreshing. Seeking

Seeking,

You are so right, it is so easy to lose the way and become proud of our own righteousness. Looking to the mote in our brothers eye and not realising the beam in our own………..

We have all or are all guilty of judging others and holding beliefs that are not true ………

I am not sure if anyone while in a physical body will have the total truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“From the beginning God knew of His plan where one man would bring sin into the world and another man would remove it. '

Do you mean Adam?
Does scripture say he brought sin into the world?

John 8:44
” You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………You have completely changed the context of Rom 8, to meet you fear religion, so lets go back and read wht it really says, Rom 8:11..> But if the Spitit of Him that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, He that rasied Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His SPirit that dwells in You. (do you see any fear there) ..12> Therefore , brethern, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. ..13> for is you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do moritfy the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (still no fear there) …>14> For as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD , they are the sons of GOD. (still not fear there) ..15..> For ye have (NOT) received the spirit of Bondage again to (FEAR); but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba Father. (do you understand that we have not received the spirit of bondage to FEAR, have you?

2 TI 1:17…> For God hath (NOT) given us the spirit of (FEAR); but of POWER, and of Love , and of a SOUND MIND.

Again all the fearful and unbelieving will have there Part it the lake of fire , they who vomit out fear will wind up eating it in the end. Fear mongers never contribute anything to real Faith and confidence in GOD at all, just as it says (NOTHING is perfected in FEAR because FEAR has TORMENT< And if you were moved in Love of GOD you would be casting (OUT) FEAR not CASTING it IN. AS Scripture says. IMO

love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

[Jodi]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2009,16:16)

Quote (Jodi @ Feb. 03 2009,10:23) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2009,14:12) Hi Jodi: You say: Quote The word of God tells us that GOD SAVED Jesus, that GOD kept Jesus from sin. Please give me the scriptures to which you are referring. Thanks Hi 94, here is my understanding, 2 Corinthians 5:18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. How does obedience come? Through our own devices? No it is done through the work of God. Ezekiel 37:13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.' “ Did not God put His Spirit in Jesus which kept him from sin, making him perfectly obedient? Did not Jesus receive immortality, the eternal gift of life? Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. God's Spirit working in Jesus saved him from disobedience, it kept him from sin. Ro 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. The Spirit is life because it is what works righteousness. The Spirit of God is what kept Jesus from sin. 1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. From the beginning God knew of His plan where one man would bring sin into the world and another man would remove it. God uses His Spirit as He wills and it was according to God's will that Jesus would remain without sin. Hebrews 19:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hi Jodi: I'll just focus on the following scripture and your comment: You say: Quote Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. How does obedience come? Through our own devices? No it is done through the work of God. Jesus as well as we who are born again Christians are obeying our Father, our God through His Word. His Spirit dwells within us and leads us into all truths in His written Word. He keeps us from sin through this Word, but it was up to Jesus to obey Him, and it is up to us as born again Christians to obey also. Quote Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Not every individual has the Holy Spirit dwelling within. Quote Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. When a person is born again he is a babe in Christ and His Father God leads him by His Spirit in His Word and He learns to apply what he is taught to his daily living, the fruit of the Spirit, love, peace, joy, gentleness, goodness, temperance etc., is developed in him. We, then, are becoming like Jesus who is our example in all things. The Holy Ghost does not take our “freedom to choose to obey or not to obey”. This is what the Apostle Paul states: Quote Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. My desire is God's very best for you and your family. Love in Christ, Marty

Love in Christ to you too Marty,

You said, “The Holy Ghost does not take our “freedom to choose to obey or not to obey.''

I agree, the Holy Spirit does not take our freedom to choose to obey or not to obey. My understanding is not that the Spirit forces us to do anything. It is much how Gene has put it, and how I tried to explain it to Nick yesterday. The Spirit of YHWH is powerful and influential enough to CAUSE us to CHOOSE YHWH. It seems many misunderstand our own human intelligence and God's ability to influence us. All people will ch
oose God, but it is because God CAUSED us to do so, not forced us.

What it comes down to is that we are creatures of influence, and the Holy Spirit has the Power to influence everyman. As I told Nick we are pathetic beings, capable of believing just about anything. When we look at how easily men can follow his own lies and superstitions, shouldn't we be able to recognize that the influence of God, when He chooses the right time according to His Will and plan, that He would be highly more effective in influence then any previous source?

One must look at what CAUSES an individual to make the choices that they do. A person draws there choice obviously from there brain and there choices are dependent upon several factors two including current state of mind due to current hormone levels, and memory from past experiences and knowledge. Much of a person's character, coming from nature and nurture factors, has been developed through uncontrollable influences. Thus this makes much of their behavior the product of uncontrolled influences.

Influences going into the mind of man are what causes him to make the choices that he does. Marty, what I think you should think about is whether or not you believe that God is an Almighty influencer. Do you believe that He is capable of creating a plan intelligent enough where He can eventually cause every man to have faith in Him through specific influences, or not.

Right now you seem to believe that you think that carnal nature and man's creations to serve that nature are stronger then God's influences. My understanding is that God is a much stronger influencer then flesh and man's devices, and one day God will cause every man to have faith in Him, for many this won't be until the end judgment.

Love to you, Jodi

[Jodi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2009,19:25)

Hi Jodi, You say “From the beginning God knew of His plan where one man would bring sin into the world and another man would remove it. ' Do you mean Adam? Does scripture say he brought sin into the world? John 8:44 ” You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Read Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15!

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“My understanding is that God is a much stronger influencer then flesh and man's devices, and one day God will cause every man to have faith in Him, for many this won't be until the end judgment.”

You may believe this as you say we are so easily influenced but it is not written.
Some even believe Satan does not exist and he is.

[kerwin]

Meercat wrote:

Quote

I agree with Gene that there is a difference between love for God and obedience out of love and it being from the heart, which is the love that God wants (worship in spirit and truth)

I am not sure you understand the disagreement that I and Gene are having.   I am pointing out that Gene is applying the wrong definition of fear to the passage is Romans that instructs Christians to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.  He seems to want to put the definition from John that means to experience the emotion of fright in anticipation of damnation or some other punishment.   On the other hand I point out that the correct definition is concern for the results of a particular action.  In the first case the person continues along the path that leads to destruction and in the second case the person avoids that path. If you work out your salvation with fear and trembling then you will not feel fear because your conscious will be clear.

Now you bring up a second point and I have to point out that obedience is love to God and only those that obey all His commands truly love Him.   So if you obey Him because you fear the results of disobeying Him then you love Him.   If you believe God is unjust in His discipline then you do not truly fear Him.  So, in scripture a person cannot truly fear to disobey God without also loving to obey His commands because they are just.  Here is an example of fearing God from scripture:

Isaiah 52:1(NIV) reads:

Quote

Depart, depart, go out from there!       Touch no unclean thing!       Come out from it and be pure,       you who carry the vessels of the LORD.

Meercat wrote:

Quote

adherence to physical rites and rules (baptism, communion, church going, do not kill, do not commit adultery) out of fear of punishment (which is what the old covenant was based on)

You are incorrect.   First the problem with the old covenant was that it required human beings, whom the law admits are corrupt by nature, to live according to the the law using that same human nature.  The rituals were a symbol of things to come and therefore were certainly not the problem unless you want to blame Jesus and sacrifice.   Your examples are not rituals of the old covenant at least as practiced in the new covenant.

Communion is not supposed to be a ritual rather it is a celebration of thanks for Jesus’ sacrifice for each of us.   I do not believe whether or not you celebrate is really relevant to your salvation but it seems to be that those grateful for Jesus’ sacrifice would be overjoyed to celebrate that sacrifice.  Even then each of us chooses to celebrate in our own way.

Luke 22:19(NIV) reads:

Quote

And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

Immersion in water is not a ritual but it is instead an event though which one who truly believes enters the new covenant and is reborn in spirit just as the blind man did the work by going and washed himself in the Pool of Siloam as per Jesus’ command and so came home seeing.  Was his washing himself in the Pool of Siloam a ritual or proving his faith by doing what he was told?

Matthew 28-19-20(NIV) reads:

Quote

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Going to church is not a ritual but an assembly of people dedicated to serving God and so to give up going to such an assembly sounds like you have given up on the assembly or found something you consider more important.  In this time where false prophets are so common you may have a good reason for not attending but if you find a church that teaches the true gospel then you should attend it regularly.  Scripture warns against doing otherwise.

Hebrews 10:25(NIV) reads:

Quote

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 03 2009,14:42)

Kerwin………You have completely changed the context of Rom 8, to meet you fear religion, so lets go back and read wht it really says, Rom 8:11..> But if the Spitit of Him that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, He that rasied Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His SPirit that dwells in You. (do you see any fear there) ..12> Therefore , brethern, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. ..13> for is you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do moritfy the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (still no fear there) …>14> For as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD , they are the sons of GOD. (still not fear there) ..15..> For ye have (NOT) received the spirit of Bondage again to (FEAR); but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba Father. (do you understand that we have not received the spirit of bondage to FEAR, have you? 2 TI 1:17…> For God hath (NOT) given us the spirit of (FEAR); but of POWER, and of Love , and of a SOUND MIND. Again all the fearful and unbelieving will have there Part it the lake of fire , they who vomit out fear will wind up eating it in the end. Fear mongers never contribute anything to real Faith and confidence in GOD at all, just as it says (NOTHING is perfected in FEAR because FEAR has TORMENT< And if you were moved in Love of GOD you would be casting (OUT) FEAR not CASTING it IN. AS Scripture says. IMO love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

Kerwin……..you have yet to answer this post.

peace………………gene

[Jodi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2009,23:02)

Hi Jodi, You say “My understanding is that God is a much stronger influencer then flesh and man's devices, and one day God will cause every man to have faith in Him, for many this won't be until the end judgment.” You may believe this as you say we are so easily influenced but it is not written. Some even believe Satan does not exist and he is.

Nick the bible shows throughout that man is easily influenced. We are told specifically that man is influenced by his flesh, by false prophets and false doctrine.

What exactly do you think deception is? Quite clearly it is false influence.

Do you really honestly want us to believe that you don't think that man is easily influenced?

Nick I don't believe in a being who's name is Satan, the word Satan was made up. Adversary is the correct word. I do believe that there is one adversary that is within all men and that is the carnal mind, and the carnal mind is most definitely a slanderer.

Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

According to my understanding of the scriptures,

God uses His Spirit to draw man away from serving his carnal nature. Jesus had carnal nature but God's Spirit influenced Jesus not to serve it, therefore Jesus was never carnally minded, but was Spiritually minded. That working influence, the Holy Spirit, kept Jesus from sin.

When the Spirit of God dwells in man, he is Christs. God sends out according to His plan His Spirit. Obviously this current age is a time where few are being chosen to be directed under God's powerful influences. The end judgment will be the time where the rest of mankind will have the influence of their carnal mind condemned and destroyed through the powerful influences of God's Spirit. God will then be all in all.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi……….AMEN Sis. You have said it right. This is the way i see it also. God spirit is what Cleanses us and overcomes the CARNAL Nature we are born with. Jesus said He that overcomes (EVEN) as I have, that EVEN is very important , and the way Jesus overcame was BY the POWER of GODS SPIRIT in Him as you brought out.

love and peace to you and yours………………………………..gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
No armchair ride.
No forced change and branches still die.
We must let the Spirit work that transformation.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Flesh is of earth.
It returns to the earth ruled by the god of this earth.
Those who walk according to the darkness and not the light can be given to him for it's destruction.

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
The ENMITY spoken of is that between Jew and Gentile and the making of them one when they are joined with Jesus Christ
Eph2
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Of course all men are not joined to Jesus so this does not apply to those who are not.

[Jodi]

No it is clearly not,

The scripture directly tells us that the carnal mind is at enmity with God.

Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Jesus was in the Spirit, he was not of carnal mind following after his flesh, so when he died he put to death the enmity for he lived a life without sin, thus he put to DEATH the carnal mind.

Nick it says THOSE IN THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD. We have to have the work of God's Spirit as Jesus did.

Do you or do you not believe that man makes choices dependent upon influences?

Do you or do you not believe that man is known to be easily influenced?[/b]

[NickHassan]

Hi JOdi,
You may believe that and perhaps could find relevant verses but the context proves you wrong in this particular verse

Eph2
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“Jesus was in the Spirit, he was not of carnal mind following after his flesh, so when he died he put to death the enmity for he lived a life without sin, thus he put to DEATH the carnal mind. “
??
Is this written?

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
There is not a common carnal mind that can be put to death any more than there is a common grave for elephants or men.

Jesus was transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God and we follow him.

Rom12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Eph4
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20But ye have not so learned Christ;

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Satan owns the flesh and sin lives in men.

Rom7
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This is the sin that is condemned-the sin that lives within flesh.

Rom8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This sin knew it's days were numbered.

Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick………Are you now saying that SATAN is inside all men and controlling them, If so then we all can say the devil made us do it , and we all have an excuse for our sins, Why should we be responsible for something we did cause . Blame it on the devil. right. Fact is Man himself is the ADVERSARY (not some creature going around jumping in and out of him). Man Fleshly nature causes Him to sin, AS John said (ALL) that is in the world , the lust of the FLESH and the Lust of the eyes and the pride of Life are from the world. Sin enter into the world through Adam as scripture said it did, and it infected the whole world and people to day are still taught by that sin thats in the world, no hidden creature Just the knowledge of sin working in all the children of disobedience. All are held accountable and die for their own sin not some unseen creatures sin. And by the way non of this has to do with the fear of GOD you preach. IMO

peace…………………………….gene

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