Fear of God

Participant

Do not ignore scripture, Romans 11 is clearly speaking of ALL people both Israel and Gentile.

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

God WILL bring EVERY man into repentance. God CAUSES our salvation, we do not choose it.

No one shall boast because people are not drawn to the truth of Christ through themselves, but they are drawn through God. So when we consider ALL of scripture, we know that in due time God will DRAW us all into the truth and into His Spirit.

January 31, 2009 at 11:07 pm#119854

Participant

Hi Jodi,
You say
“God WILL bring EVERY man into repentance.”

But God says
Acts17
“30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. “

It takes unwise speculation to tie them together

January 31, 2009 at 11:15 pm#119856

martian

Participant

I like this article on the fear of God.

Word of the Month – hary (Yirah – Fear)
By: Jeff A. Benner

This Hebrew noun is used forty-five times and is most frequently translated as fear. In our English language fear is a state of excitedness, in a negative way, toward something terrible. Before we look at the Hebraic meaning of this word we will examine its use in the common context of “the Fear of the Lord” which appears twenty-seven times.

Proverbs 15:33 (RSV)
The fear of the LORD is instruction in wisdom, and humility goes before honor.

The common understanding of this verse is that if one is afraid of the Lord he will have wisdom but, as we shall see this is not consistent with its use in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew for this phrase is hwhy tary (yirat Yahweh). When two nouns are placed together they are in the construct state meaning that these two words should be considered one. Another clue that these two nouns are in the construct is the change of the letter h (h). When the first word of the construct phrase ends with the letter h (h), it changed to the letter t (t).

Below is a complete list of construct phrases from the book of Genesis where the second word in the construct is “the Lord” (Yahweh).

The Word of the Lord (Genesis 15:1)
The Voice of the Lord (Genesis 3:8)
The Face of the Lord (Genesis 4:16)
The Name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26)
The Eyes of the Lord (Genesis 6:8)
The Garden of the Lord (Genesis 13:10)
The Angel of the Lord (Genesis 16:7)
The Way of the Lord (Genesis 18:19)
The Mount of the Lord (Genesis 22:14)

You will notice that in every instance the first word in the construct (word, voice, etc) belongs to the second word of the construct (Yahweh). The “fear” in the phrase “the fear of the Lord” is not our fear, it is the Lord's fear. Because God cannot “fear” we must look to the Ancient Hebrew concrete meaning of this word to understand it.

The word yirah comes from the parent root yar which means “to flow” and is related to words meaning river and rain, from their flowing, and to throw in the sense of flowing. From this we can see that when one is afraid the insides begin to shake, a flowing of the insides. But as the word yirah means “to flow” it is not limited to “fear” alone.

In our introductory verse we saw that wisdom comes from this “fear of the Lord.” Compare that with Exodus 31:3 – “And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship.” It is “the Spirit of God (the Lord)” that gives us wisdom in the same way that “the fear of the Lord” does. The Hebrew word for “spirit” is “ruach” literally meaning the “wind,” which is also a flowing. The “fear of the Lord” is his Spirit which flows out of him into us giving us wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

January 31, 2009 at 11:35 pm#119857

Participant

Hi martian,
So learning from a verse in the OT that is quoted in the NT

Ps 36
1Transgression speaks to the ungodly within his heart;
There is no fear of God before his eyes.

Rom3
18″THERE IS NO FEAR [5401]OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”

Number 5401
Transliteration:
phobos {fob'-os}
Word Origin:
from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear)
TDNT:
9:189,1272
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
fear 41, terror 3, misc 3

Total: 47
Definition:
fear, dread, terror
that which strikes terror
reverence for one's husband

January 31, 2009 at 11:36 pm#119858

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 31 2009,15:07)

Hi Jodi,
You say
“God WILL bring EVERY man into repentance.”

But God says
Acts17
“30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It takes unwise speculation to tie them together

God commandeth all men every where to repent. The command is to His Spirit as a proclamation to go out and work repentance into ALL men.

Jesus did nothing of himself his work and his righteousness was through the Spirit of God BY GOD'S CHOICE. Man does not bring himself into repentance, the flesh profits nothing it is the work of God's Spirit, therefore God is not commanding repentance through man's choosing, but through the Power and Intelligence of His Spirit.

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

There is NO speculation in BELIEVING in the FACTS of the bible. We know that it is God Himself who works to make a person righteous, and we know that God wants all people to be made righteous. So excuse me for stating the obvious, ALL people will be made righteous!

January 31, 2009 at 11:44 pm#119859

Participant

Hi Jodi,
You say
“God commandeth all men every where to repent.”
True

Then you say
” The command is to His Spirit as a proclamation to go out and work repentance into ALL men.”

Really?
Where is this shown elsewhere in scripture that God commands His own Spirit to do something?

Perhaps you too can command your spirit??

February 1, 2009 at 12:15 am#119861

Participant

Hi Jodi,
The Spirit of God is to God as the finger of God[cf lk11 and mt12]
He does not command His Spirit any more than you do.

God is no more separate from His Spirit than you are from yours.[Js2]

God does send His Spirit because He is in heaven and all creation is by His Spirit.

Psalm 104:30
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;And You renew the face of the ground.

It is MEN who are commanded to repent.
Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

February 1, 2009 at 4:36 am#119875

Participant

Nick………..if you don't know it is GOD who causes and gives repentance , then you know very little about the salvation process brother. Men do not repent on their own.

Peace and love to you……………………..gene

February 1, 2009 at 4:48 am#119876

Participant

Martian………..good post , but Nick thinks it fear and trembling that saves a person and if you have enough fear you will obey GOD then. He doesn't realize fear never can change our hearts and minds, the takes God himself to do. Scripture shows plainly that fear never works , it didn't with Israel and it won't with anyone else either. Very good post Martian. We are saved By GRACE working through the power of God, not of anything else.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

February 1, 2009 at 6:52 am#119894

Participant

GB,
You say
“but Nick thinks it fear and trembling that saves a person and if you have enough fear you will obey GOD then. ..” How do you know what I think?

If I say something you can quote it but not this nonsense.
The saved have to work out their salvation in fear and trembling according to my bible

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

February 1, 2009 at 8:00 am#119895

kerwin

Participant

Gene Balthrop writes:

Quote

Scripture shows plainly that fear never works , it didn't with Israel and it won't with anyone else either.

So once again you call God a liar. Well at least we know He is patient with your foolishness. My suggestion though is that if you really had the faith you claim then you would believe what God states.

Psalms 111:10(NIV) reads:

Quote

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.

Either you believe what God states here or do not and your words say you do not. Personally I choose to fear God and do what is right as it means to be belongs eternal praise.

Gene Balthrop writes:

Quote

but Nick thinks it fear and trembling that saves a person

It is clear the apostle Paul who you claim to follow also teaches that it is fear and trembling that saves a person. Ignore his teachings at your own peril.

Philippians 2:12-13(NIV) reads:

Quote

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Yes I am rebuking someone who claims to be a brother and I hope is truly a brother but I fear otherwise. Be careful as it appears your guilt has caused you to fall into one of Satan's traps but instead seek a clear conscious that comes through the true faith in Jesus Christ. God is not responsible for your choice to sin.

February 1, 2009 at 6:17 pm#119921

Participant

Kerwin…….You are a typical fear mongering So-called Christian, Hears something for you to chew on while you fear and tremble, “LOVE CAST OUT FEAR”, You cast in fear, and again “YOU HAVE (NOT) RECEIVED A SPIRIT OF (fear) BUT OF POWER AND A SOUND MIND”> And Again “NOTHING IS PERFECTED IN FEAR , FOR FEAR HAS TORMENT” ARE YOU IN TORMENT? Jesus said fear not, it's your FATHERS good Pleasure to give you the Kingdom. and one more of many , All the FEARFUL and UNBELIEVING will have their part in the Lake of fire. And again you brethren have (NOT) come to that mountain to FEAR as they did. EX 20:20 , is the way you think men are made right , but Paul showed a completely different way, and fear is not Part of it, Not to mention the word Fear is completely mistranslated as Martain plainly showed, even if you look it up in a Greek concordance it should be rendered reverence or respect. FEAR can not Change the Heart and mind of anyone. that should be obvious to any true Christian.

love and peace to you and yours…………………….gene

February 1, 2009 at 6:23 pm#119922

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 31 2009,15:44)

Hi Jodi,
You say
“God commandeth all men every where to repent.”
True

Then you say
” The command is to His Spirit as a proclamation to go out and work repentance into ALL men.”

Really?
Where is this shown elsewhere in scripture that God commands His own Spirit to do something?

Perhaps you too can command your spirit??

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3853 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
paraggevllwfrom (3844) and the base of (32)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Paraggello5:761,776
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
par-ang-gel'-lo Verb
Definition
1. to transmit a message along from one to another, to declare, announce
2. to command, order, charge

Acts 17:29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Nick how do men come into repentance? What God speaks is that which is done. God commanded, declared, announced, or ordered man to repent. Who works righteousness in men? God's devising NOT man's. God appointed a day when He would judge the world in righteousness according to Jesus. Jesus did NOTHING of himself, everything he did was by the work of the Father. The judgment should be then viewed under this TRUTH, that without the Spirit of God man cannot please God, God gives the Spirit to work righteousness. The day of judgment means to GIVE God's Spirit to ALL men!!!

When He does so the elements of the world will be burned up the sins in man will perish, making the murderer, the idolater, the thief that dwelled in these persons destroyed.

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.[/b]

Nick can't you see this, Jesus did nothing of himself, everything was by God, therefore NO man can do anything of himself, even bring himself into repentance, that is a work of God, of His Spirit in man. If Jesus is the standard of which men are judged, then isn't it obvious that the words and works of God are declaring man must have God's working Spirit, therefore God will give it because it is His desire that all should be saved.

February 1, 2009 at 6:25 pm#119924

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2009,10:17)

love and peace to you and yours…………………….gene

Amen to this brother Gene!

February 1, 2009 at 6:27 pm#119925

Participant

Hi Jodi,
Acts 17 is a command to men to repent and not from God to Himself.
All the rationalisations and justifications cannot alter that fact

February 1, 2009 at 6:35 pm#119927

Participant

Jodi………..Amen Sis, you have nailed it again. Without God Jesus could do (NOTHING) The Father is not only the cause , but the (CREATOR) of it ALL. It was the FATHER who was (IN) Christ that DID ALL THE WORKS> Thats why Paul preached Christ as crucified. Modern “Christianity” has replaced the FATHER with Jesus making Jesus the GOD they serve, and in so doing have fallen into IDOLATRY .Good post sis.

love and peace to you and yours…………………………..gene

February 1, 2009 at 6:40 pm#119928

Participant

GB,
To those who know God, Christ Jesus crucified and raised as Lord is preached, as the only way to God.

We have the honour of spreading the mercy of concilitaion with God in Jesus.

Enough of your idolatry judgements against believers. You only hurt yourself.

February 1, 2009 at 6:59 pm#119929

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 01 2009,10:27)

Hi Jodi,
Acts 17 is a command to men to repent and not from God to Himself.
All the rationalisations and justifications cannot alter that fact

Once again, there is no justifications or rationalizations in actually believing the words of God.

God's desire is that all men be saved. The word of God tells us that GOD SAVED Jesus, that GOD kept Jesus from sin. People walk IN God's ways when God works His Spirit, NOT when man chooses through his own devices to follow God.

What part of Acts 17 do you want to deny? If the scripture states that divine nature does not come through man's devices, then when God announces for all men to repent, why do you quickly turn and speak against the word and declare that it must be through the work of man that man turns to repentance?

February 1, 2009 at 7:00 pm#119930