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Quote (2besee @ Dec. 29 2012,21:49) The begotten Son of God (Jesus) — Yes — Is different.
But the eternal Son of God (The Spirit) — No. God and the Spirit are one and the same God.
So then God has TWO Sons – one of whom actually IS the God he is the Son of?Hmmmm…………………
Pierre has answered correctly when he said, “the holy spirit can not be God son under any circumstance ,because father and son are two different persons with each their own soul and mind and will”.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 29 2012,21:49) John 10:30 'I and my Father are one'.
So many people use these words, and the words from John 14:9, with little understanding, IMO. Compare them to these other words Jesus also said:John 12
44 Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.You can see that although Jesus metaphorically says, “I and the Father are one”, and “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father”, it is clear from John 12:44-45 that Jesus and the Father are not LITERALLY one, but TWO different beings – one of whom SENT the other.
So when Jesus metaphorically says when one sees him, they have seen the Father, he is really saying that, because he does exactly what the Father has showed him, when you see him, you ALSO are seeing the Father who SENT him.
These sayings do NOT equate Jesus with the Father who SENT him, 2B. Instead, they teach us how aligned the servant is with his Master.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 29 2012,21:49) Listen:
1Tim 3:5: 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus'.
That is exactly what I am saying.Why no mention of the Holy Spirit in that?
Ahhh…. Because God IS the Holy Spirit (Just as God is His own word – both are parts of the one God)…
And what about this one?Romans 8:26
We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.Go look up the word “intercede” in the dictionary, 2B. A person that intercedes BETWEEN two parties is, by definition, a THIRD party. Therefore, if the Spirit is the one interceding on our behalf, it must be a THRID party that works BETWEEN us and the One we are praying to. It cannot actually BE the One we are praying to, or it wouldn't be able to intercede between us and Him.
Likewise, priests intercede on our behalf BETWEEN us and God. They are mediators BETWEEN us and God. Therefore, no priest of God can actually BE God. And by that reasoning, the Spirit also cannot actually BE God.
Ie: Christ mediates and intercedes BETWEEN us and God, ergo, Christ cannot BE God.
The Holy Spirit mediates and intercedes BETWEEN us and God, ergo, it cannot BE God.
As Paul points out:
Galatians 3:20
A mediator, however, does not represent just one party………Instead, a mediator is a go-between BETWEEN two or more parties. But the mediator who intercedes cannot possibly BE one of the two or more parties it mediates BETWEEN.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 29 2012,17:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2012,05:37) So who sacrificed their FLESH? God's Son, the Holy Spirit? Mike, only one had flesh and that was the Man Jesus – the begotten Son of God – the anointed – the Christ.
Holy Spirit is Spirit, just as God is also Spirit. Spirit gives birth to Spirit.
'How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?' (Hebrews 9:14)
According to Heb 9:14, who exactly offered himself without blemish to God? Christ? Or the eternal spirit?Mike you brought up a good point, who did offer up Jesus . Here is my take on this, I believe it was God the Father who offered Jesus as His sacrifice for the sins of man.
Jesus through the eternal Spirit of God which was God “in” him, gave himself to God, and by doing that he became the lamb of God. God is Soverign and therefore takes responsibility for all creation and it's actions. So God took it upon himself to offer up a sacrifice for all sin and that sacrifice was his son Jesus.
When Jesus put his will to death and let God will be done , God himself took over what was being done by him in Jesus. There is a scripture that callers Jesus' blood God's blood, I can't recall it right now, but I remember reading something to that effect. So God was indeed reconciling man back to him through his sacrifice his Lamb , Jesus. IMO
I will try to find that scripture later.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Mike……..Here is the Scripture i was referring to.
Act 20: 28…..> Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HOLY GHOST has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (?) has purchased with his own blood.
Was this referencing God or Jesus or both? It seems to imply GOD Right?
I know most scriptures say Jesus' blood , but my question would be whose blood was it seeing Jesus gave himself to God Completely . So would his blood be considered God's Blood by way of the obedience of Jesus to God the Father?Also taking into consideration that in Scripture Jesus is reckoned as the Lamb of GOD. Who God offered up, for the sins of the world. Does God who being Sovereign over all Creation take responsibility for all sin of all creation and offer up His own Lamb for forgiveness of all? It does appear that way to me.
Remember what Jesus did he did in OBEDIENCE to God the FATHER fulfilling GOD desire to forgive all sin. So while Jesus was God's Lamb it was God the Father who offered him up it appears.
peace and love to you and your……………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2012,21:01) Mike……..Here is the Scripture i was referring to. Act 20: 28…..> Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HOLY GHOST has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (?) has purchased with his own blood.
Was this referencing God or Jesus or both? It seems to imply GOD Right?
I know most scriptures say Jesus' blood , but my question would be whose blood was it seeing Jesus gave himself to God Completely . So would his blood be considered God's Blood by way of the obedience of Jesus to God the Father?Also taking into consideration that in Scripture Jesus is reckoned as the Lamb of GOD. Who God offered up, for the sins of the world. Does God who being Sovereign over all Creation take responsibility for all sin of all creation and offer up His own Lamb for forgiveness of all? It does appear that way to me.
Remember what Jesus did he did in OBEDIENCE to God the FATHER fulfilling GOD desire to forgive all sin. So while Jesus was God's Lamb it was God the Father who offered him up it appears.
peace and love to you and your……………………………….gene
genewhat about this scriptures ;
2Pe 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
2Pe 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.it seems your interpretation is not correct in Act 20;28
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 01 2013,02:01) Mike……..Here is the Scripture i was referring to. Act 20: 28…..> Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HOLY GHOST has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (?) has purchased with his own blood.
Was this referencing God or Jesus or both? It seems to imply GOD Right?
I know most scriptures say Jesus' blood , but my question would be whose blood was it seeing Jesus gave himself to God Completely . So would his blood be considered God's Blood by way of the obedience of Jesus to God the Father?Also taking into consideration that in Scripture Jesus is reckoned as the Lamb of GOD. Who God offered up, for the sins of the world. Does God who being Sovereign over all Creation take responsibility for all sin of all creation and offer up His own Lamb for forgiveness of all? It does appear that way to me.
Remember what Jesus did he did in OBEDIENCE to God the FATHER fulfilling GOD desire to forgive all sin. So while Jesus was God's Lamb it was God the Father who offered him up it appears.
peace and love to you and your……………………………….gene
Gene B.Yes.
For God so loved the world,for *HE GAVE* his only begotten son.wakeup.
I agree with Wakeup and Gene on this one point:
1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.Gene, I don't agree with all the rest that you posted – especially about Acts 20:28 being about God's blood.
The Greek words are, that he purchased with the blood of his own.
Some, who'd like us to believe Jesus is God, translate it as “his own blood”.
But we are smarter than that, right Gene? God is not flesh and blood, nor does God have blood like men do.
At any rate, your posts didn't actually answer the question I had asked of 2B. I will wait for his answer when he has the time.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2012,21:25) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 30 2012,10:54) The 'eternal Son of God' is not Jesus – Jesus is a man – the anointed one – the Christos – and the first begotten from the dead.
God saved the World through Him due to His perfection (sinlessness).The Holy Spirit is the eternal “Son of God” who was in Jesus. the eternal “Son of God” came down from Heaven.
This is how I am understanding it, so far.
2Besee.Correction;
And the WORD was MADE FLESH.
Jesus WAS THE WORD.
The word humbled himself and became man.wakeup.
Wakeup,Quote Jesus WAS THE WORD. That is not literally written.
Here is what is written:
Revelation 19:13
King James Version (KJV)13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
and
John 1:14
King James Version (KJV)14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
In a way of speaking Jesus has been being the Word since the Word was made flesh in him.
I have been discussing what that means with terraricca in the “in the beginning” thread.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 07 2013,00:03) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2012,21:25) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 30 2012,10:54) The 'eternal Son of God' is not Jesus – Jesus is a man – the anointed one – the Christos – and the first begotten from the dead.
God saved the World through Him due to His perfection (sinlessness).The Holy Spirit is the eternal “Son of God” who was in Jesus. the eternal “Son of God” came down from Heaven.
This is how I am understanding it, so far.
2Besee.Correction;
And the WORD was MADE FLESH.
Jesus WAS THE WORD.
The word humbled himself and became man.wakeup.
Wakeup,Quote Jesus WAS THE WORD. That is not literally written.
Here is what is written:
Revelation 19:13
King James Version (KJV)13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
and
John 1:14
King James Version (KJV)14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
In a way of speaking Jesus has been being the Word since the Word was made flesh in him.
I have been discussing what that means with terraricca in the “in the beginning” thread.
Kerwin.The word of God was cloked with the flesh.
God was speaking *THROUGH* the flesh.With the prophets: God was speaking *TO* the prophets.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2013,12:31) I agree with Wakeup and Gene on this one point: 1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.Gene, I don't agree with all the rest that you posted – especially about Acts 20:28 being about God's blood.
The Greek words are, that he purchased with the blood of his own.
Some, who'd like us to believe Jesus is God, translate it as “his own blood”.
But we are smarter than that, right Gene? God is not flesh and blood, nor does God have blood like men do.
At any rate, your posts didn't actually answer the question I had asked of 2B. I will wait for his answer when he has the time.
peace and love,
mike
Mike……..true we know Jesus was not God or any God at all, but my point is if a person give himself over completely to God and God requires him to be sacrificed for sin , who is taking responsibility of the spilled blood. The person who is in obedience or the God who required itin that sense I believe Jesus became God sacrifice for human sins. IMO
PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU AND YOURS………………..GENE
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,00:22) Kerwin. The word of God was cloked with the flesh.
God was speaking *THROUGH* the flesh.With the prophets: God was speaking *TO* the prophets.
wakeup.
Yes Wakeup,Starting at Jesus' baptism, God's HolySpirit (The Word) was clad in flesh. (John 1:14)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 08 2013,02:49) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,00:22) Kerwin. The word of God was cloked with the flesh.
God was speaking *THROUGH* the flesh.With the prophets: God was speaking *TO* the prophets.
wakeup.
Yes Wakeup,Starting at Jesus' baptism, God's HolySpirit (The Word) was clad in flesh. (John 1:14)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj.Jesus is the son of God since conception.
He had to grow just as any human would.; he needs to mature first physically.
And at the age of 30yrs he was anointed to preach.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,03:08) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 08 2013,02:49) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,00:22) Kerwin. The word of God was cloked with the flesh.
God was speaking *THROUGH* the flesh.With the prophets: God was speaking *TO* the prophets.
wakeup.
Yes Wakeup,Starting at Jesus' baptism, God's HolySpirit (The Word) was clad in flesh. (John 1:14)
God bless
Ed J
Edj.Jesus is the son of God since conception.
He had to grow just as any human would.; he needs to mature first physically.
And at the age of 30yrs he was anointed to preach.wakeup.
Yes Wakeup,At the age of thirty, Jesus was anointed with “The Word”,
and fulfilled what John was talking about in John 1:14.Good Job,
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ Jan. 07 2013,19:22) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 07 2013,00:03) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 30 2012,21:25) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 30 2012,10:54) The 'eternal Son of God' is not Jesus – Jesus is a man – the anointed one – the Christos – and the first begotten from the dead.
God saved the World through Him due to His perfection (sinlessness).The Holy Spirit is the eternal “Son of God” who was in Jesus. the eternal “Son of God” came down from Heaven.
This is how I am understanding it, so far.
2Besee.Correction;
And the WORD was MADE FLESH.
Jesus WAS THE WORD.
The word humbled himself and became man.wakeup.
Wakeup,Quote Jesus WAS THE WORD. That is not literally written.
Here is what is written:
Revelation 19:13
King James Version (KJV)13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
and
John 1:14
King James Version (KJV)14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
In a way of speaking Jesus has been being the Word since the Word was made flesh in him.
I have been discussing what that means with terraricca in the “in the beginning” thread.
Kerwin.The word of God was cloked with the flesh.
God was speaking *THROUGH* the flesh.With the prophets: God was speaking *TO* the prophets.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not want to get wrapped up in technicalities so I will point out that the flesh is the human Jesus.
Jesus was not fully called by the name of the Word until after he ascended as it was then he gained the authority to send God's Spirit.
John 16:7
King James Version (KJV)7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 07 2013,09:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2013,12:31) 1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.God is not flesh and blood, nor does God have blood like men do.
Mike……..if a person give himself over completely to God and God requires him to be sacrificed for sin , who is taking responsibility of the spilled blood. The person who is in obedience or the God who required itin that sense I believe Jesus became God sacrifice for human sins.
Agreed, Gene. It was God who offered up His Son as an atoning sacrifice. It was God who sent His Son in order that his blood be spilled.Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2013,12:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 07 2013,09:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2013,12:31) 1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.God is not flesh and blood, nor does God have blood like men do.
Mike……..if a person give himself over completely to God and God requires him to be sacrificed for sin , who is taking responsibility of the spilled blood. The person who is in obedience or the God who required itin that sense I believe Jesus became God sacrifice for human sins.
Agreed, Gene. It was God who offered up His Son as an atoning sacrifice. It was God who sent His Son in order that his blood be spilled.Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
That was proof that God truly loves us first,by giving up his only BEGOTTEN son.But now; If he really loves us so much; why would he put us through all this pain, and sufferings?
Satan, and fallen angels, and evil spirits, and wars, and plagues,and earth quakes, and sickness,and accidents.Can anyone give us the answer?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,12:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2013,12:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 07 2013,09:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2013,12:31) 1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.God is not flesh and blood, nor does God have blood like men do.
Mike……..if a person give himself over completely to God and God requires him to be sacrificed for sin , who is taking responsibility of the spilled blood. The person who is in obedience or the God who required itin that sense I believe Jesus became God sacrifice for human sins.
Agreed, Gene. It was God who offered up His Son as an atoning sacrifice. It was God who sent His Son in order that his blood be spilled.Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
That was proof that God truly loves us first,by giving up his only BEGOTTEN son.But now; If he really loves us so much; why would he put us through all this pain, and sufferings?
Satan, and fallen angels, and evil spirits, and wars, and plagues,and earth quakes, and sickness,and accidents.Can anyone give us the answer?
wakeup.
Wakeup,You are basically asking why mankind is not in the Garden. We chose and are choosing not to be.
Kerwin.
That was Adam and Eve,in the garden.
Then God gave his only son,because he loves us.
Why did he not stop these propblems,as he says he loves us. And not only that;he also brought satan and his angels down to earth with us.These angels are of a higher plain,we are only flesh.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 08 2013,22:01) Kerwin. That was Adam and Eve,in the garden.
Then God gave his only son,because he loves us.
Why did he not stop these propblems,as he says he loves us. And not only that;he also brought satan and his angels down to earth with us.These angels are of a higher plain,we are only flesh.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Adam and Eve served as the representatives of mankind. Their choice is repeated in each and every human, save one.
Yahweh's love allows us to choose between good and evil even though we choose our evil desires over his love. In doing so we separated ourselves and our World from him and some of the effects we call bad are the result of doing so. The others are the fruit of the flesh.
God desires to gather mankind under his wings but mankind is not willing, Luke 13:34.
It seems that for Yawheh to force humanity to do good would be an act of evil and God cannot do evil.
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