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Hi not3,
Just because the interference of the adversary is visible throughout creation, that does not alter truth.Quote (theodorej @ April 09 2008,07:58) Greetings not3in1…..To answer your question I would think that the human being is the highest order of life on this earth and posesses a free will….where the animal kingdom functions on instinct..
in·stinct1 Audio Help /ˈɪnstɪŋkt/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-stingkt] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.
2. a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.
3. a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.
4. natural intuitive power.Curious definition, isn't it? If the animals are acting on “instinct” wouldn't that mean it was God-given instinct?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2008,07:58) Hi not3,
Just because the interference of the adversary is visible throughout creation, that does not alter truth.
So your saying, and pardon my crassness, that the adversary encourages animals of the same sex to get in on with each other?
I don't get it. Why would Satan care about the animal kingdom?Hi not3,
Is all what we see the result of God's work?
Murder, illness, homosexuality?2 Peter 2:12
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,Quote (Not3in1 @ April 09 2008,07:42) Who is this Payne? I must add him to my library for he speaks sense!
Mandy,Thomas Paine 1737 – 1809 was an English pamphleteer, revolutionary, classical liberal and intellectual. His chief works being:
COMMON SENSE
(1776)
Paine's call to arms for America.• THE CRISIS
(1776-77)
“These are the times that try men's souls.”• THE RIGHTS OF MAN
(1791-92)
Paine's reply to an attack on the French Revolution by Edmund Burke.• AGE OF REASON
(1794, 1796)
Paine's biting criticism of the Bible and religion.Thomas Paine's writings had great influence on his contemporaries, especially the American revolutionaries.
Thomas Edison said of Paine:
I have always regarded Paine as one of the greatest of all Americans. Never have we had a sounder intelligence in this republic… It was my good fortune to encounter Thomas Paine's works in my boyhood… it was, indeed, a revelation to me to read that great thinker's views on political and theological subjects. Paine educated me then about many matters of which I had never before thought. I remember very vividly the flash of enlightenment that shone from Paine's writings and I recall thinking at that time, 'What a pity these works are not today the schoolbooks for all children!'Theologically he described himself as a “Deist” and commented: How different is [Christianity] to the pure and simple profession of Deism! The true Deist has but one Deity, and his religion consists in contemplating the power, wisdom, and benignity of the Deity in his works, and in endeavoring to imitate him in everything moral, scientifical, and mechanical
Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in The United Kingdom, France and The United States of America, mostly among those raised as Christians who found they could not believe in either a triune God, the divinity of Jesus, miracles, or the inerrancy of scriptures, but who did believe in one God.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 09 2008,08:21) Quote (theodorej @ April 09 2008,07:58) Greetings not3in1…..To answer your question I would think that the human being is the highest order of life on this earth and posesses a free will….where the animal kingdom functions on instinct..
in·stinct1 Audio Help /ˈɪnstɪŋkt/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-stingkt] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.
2. a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.
3. a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.
4. natural intuitive power.Curious definition, isn't it? If the animals are acting on “instinct” wouldn't that mean it was God-given instinct?
Not3in1……Interesting deduction,however,it would be based on erroneous theory….that being there are Gay animals..you would have to site some specific species that partake of this kind of behavior and in doing so you would have to prove those species have sexual relations for pleasure rather than procreation…..procreation being an instinctive behavior….Hey Theo,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality
Check these out and let me know what you think, OK?
MandyGreetings Mandy….I stand corrected….It appears that behavior contrary to what I believed to be the laws of nature are in fact apparant…..Iam curious is thr pigmee chimp the speci that the AIDs virus was first detected…
Theo,
I wonder, do you think because this behavior is indeed instictive among the animal kingdom (and we have a working definition for instinct), would you say that God is the source of these apparent behaviors expressed?
Cato offered that the attributes of God can be found more readily in his creation than it can in the bible, do you agree? And if so, wouldn't seem that concerning homosexuality, the creation of God and the word of God are at odds? What are we to make of this? Other's chime in as well, if you wish.
As far as homosexuality is concerned I think the Bible teaches us that it is a Sin. If all have fallen short of the glory of God, then how can we think that we find the attributes of God in His creation. If that would be the case then God did not have to send His Son to die for us, we can just do it on our own. That is not the case. We need a Savior. It is in the Faith that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and died for us and through him we are saved. In fact God is giving us all this time to show us, that we can't make it without it. And look around you, society in general is trying to do so and have made a big mess of it.
If He think that you can see God better in an animal then the Bible, how will you know what is right or wrong since animals can't talk and tell you. That seems absurd too. Even tho the Bible has some errors I still see God in it. Besides I do not put my trust in the Bible I put my trust in God and His Holy Spirit to tell me what is right or wrong. Because I was Baptized and received His Holt Spirit I know the things of God. How God entered my Life is a great Testimony of the power of God. Some of you probable have the same Story or similar Story to tell, right?Peace and Love Mrs.
Mandy! I kind of glanced at those tapes. Some extra ordinary stuff. But can you believe what these Scientist are saying true? Or are they imagining things.
Irene
It is my belief that in most cases homosexuality is not a choice, but a condition. Whether an alternate means of sexual development, some sort of birth defect or hormonal imbalance no one knows. I don't remember ever being alive that I did not like women, even as a preschooler you had crushes and attractions, without even understanding them. I can not conceive any event that could turn me gay. Now for some rare few there might be some massive psychological trauma might effect their sexual orientaion, but this I think is rare in the extreme. So if it is a condition that is not a choice is it therefore sinful? I don't think so, though in that orientation there is sin just like in any relationship depending on how people act and treat each other. Now can I escape my social upbringing, no, I am sad to admit that I would be most distressed if any of my children were gay , yet would I consider them sinful and evil because of such, of course not, for my problem would be cultural not moral.
Quote (Cato @ April 10 2008,06:25) It is my belief that in most cases homosexuality is not a choice, but a condition. Whether an alternate means of sexual development, some sort of birth defect or hormonal imbalance no one knows. I don't remember ever being alive that I did not like women, even as a preschooler you had crushes and attractions, without even understanding them. I can not conceive any event that could turn me gay. Now for some rare few there might be some massive psychological trauma might effect their sexual orientation, but this I think is rare in the extreme. So if it is a condition that is not a choice is it therefore sinful? I don't think so, though in that orientation there is sin just like in any relationship depending on how people act and treat each other. Now can I escape my social upbringing, no, I am sad to admit that I would be most distressed if any of my children were gay , yet would I consider them sinful and evil because of such, of course not, for my problem would be cultural not moral.
Catro! I hope I can change your mind and convince you that
Homosexuality is not something that a Human is Born with. It is a choice.
Please read the first chapter of Romans. God created Humans to produce other Humans.
Lev. 18:22 it is a abomination to God. What I find so odd that people think that there are just 10 Commandments. Read the last verse in Lev. 23
Also God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of sexual sins.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (Cato @ April 10 2008,06:25) It is my belief that in most cases homosexuality is not a choice, but a condition. Whether an alternate means of sexual development, some sort of birth defect or hormonal imbalance no one knows. I don't remember ever being alive that I did not like women, even as a preschooler you had crushes and attractions, without even understanding them. I can not conceive any event that could turn me gay. Now for some rare few there might be some massive psychological trauma might effect their sexual orientaion, but this I think is rare in the extreme. So if it is a condition that is not a choice is it therefore sinful? I don't think so, though in that orientation there is sin just like in any relationship depending on how people act and treat each other. Now can I escape my social upbringing, no, I am sad to admit that I would be most distressed if any of my children were gay , yet would I consider them sinful and evil because of such, of course not, for my problem would be cultural not moral.
So you think “natural” instincts are somehow not natural but a malformation of some sort?I've known many gay people over the course of my life, some of them have been very dear to me. I have always faught agains the notion that it is NOT a choice for them to be gay, although in my heart I've always questioned it. The reason I believed it was not a choice was because of the bible….
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 10 2008,03:42) Theo, I wonder, do you think because this behavior is indeed instictive among the animal kingdom (and we have a working definition for instinct), would you say that God is the source of these apparent behaviors expressed?
Cato offered that the attributes of God can be found more readily in his creation than it can in the bible, do you agree? And if so, wouldn't seem that concerning homosexuality, the creation of God and the word of God are at odds? What are we to make of this? Other's chime in as well, if you wish.
Greetings Mandy….I must say that,Catos' thesis regarding the presense of God being evident in his creation is accurate, however,the point you are trying to make by extrapalating the concession granted by our working definition of instinct is a bit of a stretch….
In the beginning God gave man dominion over the animal kingdom and in doing that he allowed man to dictate not only life and death but procreation as well….Having said that I cannot speak qualatatively as to why certain species in the animal kingdom have wandered from their appointed roles in the cycle of life…Hi not3,
Those who study the world include as normal whatever they find.
Yet though animals kill each other they do not say murder is normal.Hi Theo,
Well, besides being truly eloquent in your words, I didn't quite follow you (although it is a pleasure to read your posts, along with other's here who handle the English language so beautifully).Man dictated to the animals how to “do it”?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 10 2008,08:41) Hi not3,
Those who study the world include as normal whatever they find.
Yet though animals kill each other they do not say murder is normal.
Animals kill for food, we go to the Super Market for food.
I don't see your reasoning here.
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