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Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,14:51) You are exactly wrong–JW's seem to hate psychiatrists or psychologists, and therefore are much less likely to take things like prescription medications than the average person. They say that psychiatrists use “human wisdom,” and they are generally shunned. In fact, they are told to turn to God and pray for help in dealing with anything like depression. Psychology or talk therapy with a professional or prescription drugs are sort of a viewed as last resort, or not even mentioned as an option. Given the higher than normal mental illness rate, AND their avoidance of mental health professionals, AND their attitude of trusting in Gods help in these things, your CONCLUSIONS ARE SIMPLY WRONG.
David, this is not what I read in their magazine, nor what the JWs told me.Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,15:26) But, imagine you were part of whatever group 2becee is part of.
Hi David, I am not a part of any 'group' – I do not go to Church.IF I did then I would go to the Seventh Day Adventists, even though I am not a trinity follower nor a sabbath day follower, I would have to put those things aside.
They are spirit filled. I have been to their services (have you?)
Quote (Richtuner @ Nov. 30 2012,16:16) To all, we have to remember that we live in a different time than in the early church. I do believe we are in the last days and true faith is diluted in greed and fame or fortune. We seem to have more against us, (Christians) than for us when we spend more time at work, school family etc.
We don't have people, (or ourselves) that are willing to do what the disciples and Paul did, to “not love our lives”.
I have no problem believing that if we would give our all to God and find His will for us, (making an all out effort to find, or have faith) then He can use us to pray for one another and see more healings in our day.
The bible says that we should seek first the Kingdom of God, but we have found a way to make God our cosmic butler and do our bidding without seeking Him and His will.
Notwithstanding there have been some in the past who have miracles of healings in their ministry.
The problem is that man has a hard time with this kind of power working in their lives. Most all I have read about had problems copping with it that evidently it brought them down.
Paul said that in the last days men will be lovers of themselves and have tickling ears to hear things that will benefit them without any effort or seeking God and to obedience to His Word.
Would to God we would see a re-kindling of the fire of the Holy Ghost on us.
Men will have a form of godly devotion but prove false to it's power.2Tim 3:5
And from those turn away.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,15:19) Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,15:26) But, imagine you were part of whatever group 2becee is part of.
Hi David, I am not a part of any 'group' – I do not go to Church.IF I did then I would go to the Seventh Day Adventists, even though I am not a trinity follower nor a sabbath day follower, I would have to put those things aside.
They are spirit filled. I have been to their services (have you?)
2becee,Your words contradict one another as those filled with the Spirit of God do not teach or adhere to heresies.
Perhaps you believe they seek God. What fruit of this do they show?
I was once a Seventh Day Adventist and found them to be as other humans; with some members appearing more righteous than others.
To All……….Jesus said………..> Luk 18:1-8…> And he spake a Paeable unto them to this end that men ought alway to pray, and not to faint; (2) saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regard man; (3) And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying Avenge me of mine adverary. (4) And he would not for a while, but afterwards he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; (5) Yet because this widow troubles me, I will avenge her, lest by he continual comming she weary me. (6) and the Lord said Hear what the unjust Judge said (7) And shall not God (who obvisely is a Just Judge) avenge his “OWN ELECT” which cry day and noght unto him, though (or Will) he bear LONG with them. (8) I tell you that he will avenge the speedily Nevertheles when the SON OF MAN comes shall he find “faith” on the earth
The reason there are few Mircales on the earth is because there is Little if any Faith. The unseen God give Direct Proof to His ELECT even NOW . IMO
Do not be decieved by those that say God does not still do Mircales today, God is Faithful to his word, I have had hundreds of direct Mircales happen in my Life and have not “FORGOT them either. Faith is the Fuel that Dirves Us, just as it says, without Faith it is “impossible” to please God, and again “all who believe “IN” him must believe that he is, and is a rewarder of them that Deligently seek him. These are the true one that believe “IN” him.” People who do not believe in Miracles do not have true Faith in God nor believe in his Power to Save the Sick even now. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………..gene
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,19:57) Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,14:51) You are exactly wrong–JW's seem to hate psychiatrists or psychologists, and therefore are much less likely to take things like prescription medications than the average person. They say that psychiatrists use “human wisdom,” and they are generally shunned. In fact, they are told to turn to God and pray for help in dealing with anything like depression. Psychology or talk therapy with a professional or prescription drugs are sort of a viewed as last resort, or not even mentioned as an option. Given the higher than normal mental illness rate, AND their avoidance of mental health professionals, AND their attitude of trusting in Gods help in these things, your CONCLUSIONS ARE SIMPLY WRONG.
David, this is not what I read in their magazine, nor what the JWs told me.
Which magazine? I could quote 100 references to back it up. Believe me, they consider psychologists to be human wisdom. They discourage talk therapy, but want you to go to e elders or pray to God. Of course, we are told to take medicine, but discouraged from going to psychiatrists for mental illnesses. Up until recently, there was a great stigma around even saying that you had a mental illness, as if you somehow were not living up to the “happiest people on earth” idea.Probably the witness told you that they do take medication. They do. And they pray to Gid for all kinds of help and motivation and encouragement. But with physical things, they don't pray to be healed really. We are always told to pray in line with Gods will and if that means giving the person strength to carry out the preaching work, then yes. But, the healing thing, not so much. We avoid psychiatrists like the plague.
David this is good (that they avoid psychiatrists like the plague) and I agree.
But in the magazine, they were encouraged to go the doctors to treat depression, and they were told that often times depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that treatment is through medication (i.e. Prozac)…..
That is just a plaster on a wound.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2012,02:49) 2becee, Your words contradict one another as those filled with the Spirit of God do not teach or adhere to heresies.
Perhaps you believe they seek God. What fruit of this do they show?
I was once a Seventh Day Adventist and found them to be as other humans; with some members appearing more righteous than others.
Hello Kerwin.Adventists would be the only church I would possibly go to, but I do not believe in any kind of organized religion as I believe that the truth is within.
I like too talk to them though, and I do.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,19:16) Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,14:34) Hi bjee, I believe in and understand the placebo effect if that is what you are saying. You said faith healing is exactly as it says, faith healing. If the person has faith or belief that they will be healed, they are much more likely to feel better or heal themself.
As t8 recently said, belief is powerful. And it is.
Can you provide any examples where this type of healing occurs? Which illness for example?
David, one example then.Man down the road was insane, daily dramas, yelling, wife screaming, kids crying, police, ambulances….
One day I had had enough and I prayed with faith for it to stop and it did and it never occurred again.
See the man and his family today smiling like nothing ever happened.He doesn't know about my prayer but I know God will touch him.
Some healing is for health issues I hear but some is deeper and then some just need a healing of their heart and God can do that.
2becee, I was thinking more along the line of illnesses that were healed. Nothing was actually healed in your example.Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,08:34) David this is good (that they avoid psychiatrists like the plague) and I agree. But in the magazine, they were encouraged to go the doctors to treat depression, and they were told that often times depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that treatment is through medication (i.e. Prozac)…..
That is just a plaster on a wound.
Have Adventists found the cure for depression? Do any of them have anxiety disorder or mental illness?Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,14:20) God also works with nature.
One example is disease caused by vitamin deficiency.
I have been led to a cure for somebody with that by God.
2bare you not thinking of scientology
Terraricca, what IS IT with all of your raised eyebrows at me lately? Are you a troll?
No, Scientologists may believe similar regarding the use of high doses of vitamins to treat mental illness, but what of it?
Have you ever heard of vitamin deficiency causing death?
Beri-beri, Pellagra, Iron deficiency anemia, B12 anemia to name a few?
To All……….Tell me this how can you even know God is in you life? You can reason that there is a God or Creator by the things Created that is for sure, But how does that mean He is Present in your Personal lives. We are told God is invisible so it can't be by physically seeing him, So how can you tell?. If God does not actually do something that you know is not of or from yourself you can not have any “personal” Proof” of his involvement in your lives.
The word Faith is defined in scripture as having evidence of that thing “not seen” So what can give you that evidence it has to involve something tangible something you can relate with taking place in you life. Going to a Church or even reading scriptures does not give Faith to you at all, you need personal involvement with God the Father in order for that to Happen.
God understands proof , that it is essential to truly believe in him. He even challenges us and say “PROVE ME” Scripture says He gives to every man a “measure” of Faith
So to me that means He does intervene in our lives directly at times or we could not have “true” Faith, but just suppositions that we acquire over time by what we hear from others, that would not give you, your personal evidence I believe some are so fearful they are afraid to even challenge God to even get true Faith, that personal Faith that has “evidence” attached to it If it was not for the Personal things the “invisible” God has done in my life many many times, i would not even be here or believe in him at all. Not that i would believe there was not a God but i just would not believe he was dealing with me and i personally had a relationship with him. .Years ago i took God's Challenge and he Proved Himself over and over to me of his existences in my life, so i am without excuse because my Faith is a Product of that given “true evidence” of His existence in my life many times. That is why we are told have you Faith? have it unto yourself why because true Faith is Personal “EVIDENCE”. It is all about Faith in love and it take courage to find it. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………gene
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,15:17) Terraricca, what IS IT with all of your raised eyebrows at me lately? Are you a troll? No, Scientologists may believe similar regarding the use of high doses of vitamins to treat mental illness, but what of it?
Have you ever heard of vitamin deficiency causing death?
Beri-beri, Pellagra, Iron deficiency anemia, B12 anemia to name a few?
hey,hey take it easy mom
Quote (david @ Dec. 01 2012,08:54) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,08:34) David this is good (that they avoid psychiatrists like the plague) and I agree. But in the magazine, they were encouraged to go the doctors to treat depression, and they were told that often times depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, and that treatment is through medication (i.e. Prozac)…..
That is just a plaster on a wound.
Have Adventists found the cure for depression? Do any of them have anxiety disorder or mental illness?
David,Faith in God.
Pharmaceuticals are a poor substitute for faith but they may serve as some protection before faith comes.
Do not worry as Jehovah clothes even the flowers of the field.
David, Adventists believe in prevention before cure.
They believe in taking things to God in prayer and they believe in healing through prayer, and they trust in God.A high percentage of them are vegetarian and in studies they are shown to live slightly longer than the average, the studies included mental health.
http://www.llu.edu/info/legacy/appendixc/
http://www.llu.edu/public-health/health/quality-of-life.pageThose were just quickly Googled, I don't know how legit they are.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 02 2012,06:44) To All……….Tell me this how can you even know God is in you life? You can reason that there is a God or Creator by the things Created that is for sure, But how does that mean He is Present in your Personal lives. We are told God is invisible so it can't be by physically scening him So how can you tell?. If God does not actually do something that you know is not of or from yourself you can not have any “personal” Proof” of his involvement in your lives. The word Faith is defined in scripture as having evidence of that thing “not seen” So what can give you that evidence it has to involve something tangible something you can relate with taking place in you life. Going to a Church or even reading scriptures does not give Faith to you at all you need personal involvement with God the Father in order for that to Happen.
God understands proof that it is essential to truly believe in him. He even challenges us and say “PROVE ME” Scripture says He gives to every man a “measure” of Faith
So to me that means He does intervene in our lives directly at times or we could not have “true” Faith, but just suppositions that we acquire over time by what we hear from others, that would not give you, your personal evidence I believe some are so fearful they are afraid to even challenge God to even get true Faith, that personal Faith that has “evidence” attached to it If it was not for the Personal things the “invisible” God has done in my life many many times, i would not even be here or believe in him at all. Not that i would believe there was not a God but i just would not believe he was dealing with me and i personally had a relationship with him. .Years ago i took God's Challenge and he Proved Himself over and over to me of his existences in my life, so i am without excuse because my Faith is a Product of that given “true evidence” of His existence in my life many times. That is why we are told have you Faith? have it unto yourself why because true Faith is Personal “EVIDENCE”. It is all about Faith in love and it take courage ti find it. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………gene
Amen Gene.
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