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Has anyone ever gone to a faith healer and actually been healed?
(I suppose some people just heal by the,selves and if this happens to occur right after they visit a faith healer, they would view that as proof. There is also the placebo effect.)
David……….What part of this do you not believe…….
James 5:14-15……….> Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15…> And the prayer of Faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have commited sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Tell me Davi does you elders in you church do this and if not why?
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2012,06:48) David……….What part of this do you not believe……. James 5:14-15……….> Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15…> And the prayer of Faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have commited sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Tell me Davi does you elders in you church do this and if not why?
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
“14 Is there anyone sick among YOU? Let him call the older men of the congregation to him, and let them pray over him, greasing him with oil in the name of Jehovah. 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.
16 Therefore openly confess YOUR sins to one another and pray for one another, that YOU may get healed.”It's understood to be (spiritually) sick–perhaps connected to a weakening of the persons faith, or connected to committing sins. It's not understood to mean physically sick.
David you are misunderstanding.
I agree with you Gene, well said.
And Richtruner, I agree too.
Faith healing is exactly as it says -> faith healing.
It is when the power of above comes upon a man and they are then given the ability to heal another, even without them knowing.
Jesus said that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, that you could move mountains.
(Oh ye of little faith) – will Jesus find any faith on the earth when he returns.
Sure there are phonies, too.
David, seeing that you are i think a JW, let me ask you something:
How come that JWs have the highest rate of mental illness apparently? Is it because, in one of the JW magazines, people were advised to go and see their GP when suffering from depression etc and to 'take a Prozac' instead of turning to God?
Sad David, really sad.
Perhaps you should turn instead to Adventistism, as they do believe in healing, though they do not believe in hell, so there are some similarities.
——————-
(If you are not a JW, I am so sorry!)
Quote (david @ Nov. 29 2012,18:40) Has anyone ever gone to a faith healer and actually been healed? (I suppose some people just heal by the,selves and if this happens to occur right after they visit a faith healer, they would view that as proof. There is also the placebo effect.)
I don't trust those guys that travel around seeking money for healings. However….I suffer from a bad back and when it goes it usually takes weeks to fix itself. The worse case I had was when I lived in London and I put up with pain for months.
The problem was I had to travel back to New Zealand and I was doing that overland with some flights in between all the while with a heavy pack on my back.
Fortunately my back came right just before for the trip. When I got to India, by chance I met this guy from Norway who was preaching the gospel and we got talking and he invited me to travel with him. I accepted and we hitch hiked and trained our way to the Himalayas within 2 Indian states. The plan was I would go part the way with him as he was trekking to Ladak and I was not prepared to trek into alpine terrain for too long.
On the way before entering the mountains, we met missionaries, 3 couples in a place called Mussoorie. Call it a coincidence, one of the couples was from my suburb back in New Zealand and although I had never met them before they knew people I knew. Another couple from Norway which was great for my friend, with the third couple from the USA.
We stayed for a while where they were based and prayed together. The day before I left, my back started playing up again and it got to the point where I could even move my neck without sharp pain. I was thinking what am I going to do. I can't afford weeks of not being able to move, never mind carry a heavy pack. My friend didn't seem concerned and said I will pray for you. I accepted and I wasn't healed on the spot.
It was late so got some sleep and when I woke up, I forgot about my back because there was no pain whatsoever. When I remembered I thought it was awesome because now I could continue on in the journey. To prove to my friend that I was 100% free of back pain, I did a cart-wheel.
Anyway, I have had back pain before and after that time. And I have never had back pain go away like that. Especially one as painful as that one was. I'm guessing that the other times I have not needed to have a healthy back, but the one time It was absolutely important, was also the one time that I was healed quickly and in time.
You can add that one to your Coincidence Register. Shows the power of belief and I am guessing that had I not had faith, I would have woken up with my bad back and had to stay and rest with these guys for a couple of weeks at least.
And I have a much more amazing story as well. But I am thinking that it will send you spinning so fast that your gravitational pull will start making physical objects move toward you and we can't have that can we. So I give you this rather tame story in comparison.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,10:23) David you are misunderstanding. I agree with you Gene, well said.
And Richtruner, I agree too.
Faith healing is exactly as it says -> faith healing.
It is when the power of above comes upon a man and they are then given the ability to heal another, even without them knowing.
Jesus said that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, that you could move mountains.
(Oh ye of little faith) – will Jesus find any faith on the earth when he returns.
Sure there are phonies, too.
Hi bjee,I believe in and understand the placebo effect if that is what you are saying. You said faith healing is exactly as it says, faith healing. If the person has faith or belief that they will be healed, they are much more likely to feel better or heal themself.
As t8 recently said, belief is powerful. And it is.
Can you provide any examples where this type of healing occurs? Which illness for example?
Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,17:55) Logically, then, with the death of the apostles, the transmitting of the gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ceased.
Umm. No.When Elijah handed over the mantle to Elisha or when Moses laid hands on Joshua are we to assume that the death of Elijah or Moses had a direct bearing on what was transmitted to Elisha and Joshua?
2 Kings 2:9-11
9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.
10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”
The gifts are easy to pass on by the laying on of hands compared to passing on a mantle of such a great prophet as Elijah.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,10:39) David, seeing that you are i think a JW, let me ask you something: How come that JWs have the highest rate of mental illness apparently? Is it because, in one of the JW magazines, people were advised to go and see their GP when suffering from depression etc and to 'take a Prozac' instead of turning to God?
Sad David, really sad.
Perhaps you should turn instead to Adventistism, as they do believe in healing, though they do not believe in hell, so there are some similarities.
——————-
(If you are not a JW, I am so sorry!)
Hi 2becee,I'm not sure why you are bringing up JW high mental illness rate in this thread. Yes, I have studied JW's including the mental illness common among them. They do have higher depression despite believing they are the happiest people on earth.
But, your understanding of why is just wrong. It is guilt, fear, pressure, change, etc that increase depression rate among witnesses. You are exactly wrong–JW's seem to hate psychiatrists or psychologists, and therefore are much less likely to take things like prescription medications than the average person. They say that psychiatrists use “human wisdom,” and they are generally shunned. In fact, they are told to turn to God and pray for help in dealing with anything like depression. Psychology or talk therapy with a professional or prescription drugs are sort of a viewed as last resort, or not even mentioned as an option. Given the higher than normal mental illness rate, AND their avoidance of mental health professionals, AND their attitude of trusting in Gods help in these things, your CONCLUSIONS ARE SIMPLY WRONG. I have been studying this for years. I've actually looked at the actual studies that deal with mental health and religion.I would strongly advise that they seek out psychologists more. I do understand the reasons why they are actually shunned though.
This is getting off topic. As for faith healing, show me any example.
I can say: it doesn't exist today because THE BIBLE says the gifts of the spirit were to be done away with, but equally important, it simply doesn't exist today. I checked. Perhaps that is the discussion we should be having. See any “tongues” thread.
Hi david, perhaps I should point what could be obvious.
The Placebo Effect works because of faith, not because of any medicinal purpose. We are told that we can do great things by faith. So if faith healing from a pill with no medicine in it can have that effect, imagine faith in God and faith in the things that God has given us.
We are told to have faith in God. Yet even the man who doesn't believe in God has faith that there is no God. I think that too is powerful to the Atheist. He becomes blind even to the possibility that there is a God. I know, I once had faith that there was no God.
I think you have faith in the idea that there are no gifts of the Spirit for today even though the Spirit will be with us to the end and God is generous. Because you have faith in that, it explains the powerful effect it has on your view of this.
H David:
God said that He doesn't change, and if He was able to heal both physical and spiritual illness in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles, then He can surely do it now.
Gene gave you the scriptures relative to healing, and if you believe the Word of God, and exercise your faith in the Word of God then God will heal you. He may do it instaneously, or He may do it in a process, or he may do it through a medical doctor. There are some things like High blood pressure, or diabetes that are diet and exercise related, and you might have to cooperate with God by canging your life style in order to get healed.
But if you do not believe God's Word it is a waste of time to ask Him to do anything for you. His Word is true. If He said it, then He is able to perform what He said.
All of the gifts of the Spirit are still active in the “true church of the living God”. There is a lack of power in the church because those in authority in the church have changed the Word of God and formulated doctrines, such as the “Trinity”, which the which neither Jesus nor the Apostles taught, and God cannot confirm something that He did not say.
Lastly, It is God who ordains those of His choosing to be in authority in the church. There are those who have exalted themselves to positions of authority in the church, and if God did not put them in this position, He definitely will not confirm what they teach with miracles and signs and wonders following as He did in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles.
Love in Christ,
MartyThis is how healing works for me.
God gave me a body that heals itself. Thus I let my body heal itself. If the symptoms are painful, I may take some medication to dull that effect. Usually I don't. If that healing is not working or if I need a quicker healing for an important reason, then I will ask God through prayer.
What do I think of medication. Well God gave us herbs that heal and he proclaimed that they were good when he created them. However, we live in a world where men patent God's design and make money by selling us a synthetic versions. So I first prefer natural healing and will resort to synthetic healing if I get a bit desperate or am suffering too much.
During Winter months I like to make a drink made from lemons and ginger topped with a bit of honey and mixed in hot water. That gives me Vitamin C and other benefits.
In New Zealand one in 3 people get skin cancer due to the clean air and light ozone. I am one of those people. A melanoma appeared on my skin and when a specialist saw it, he cut it out immediately. It didn't spread and I have a scar to remind me. Thus I have no problem with medical professionals. I also had my appendix out when I was in my twenties. Does that mean I would have died if I lived in a time before doctors. Could well mean that.
Quote The Placebo Effect works because of faith The placebo effect is well documented. It works because of “belief” and of course works equally well on athiests.
Quote not because of any medicinal purpose. Right, it's definitely a “mind” thing.
Quote So if faith healing from a pill with no medicine in it can have that effect, imagine faith in God and faith in the things that God has given us. For a long time I wondered if God set things up so that they work in such a way that we don't need his interaction. Faith healing for example. If you believe, you are much more likely to either be somewhat healed or think you are healed. Did God set it up that way? Placebo's work on those who have no faith at all, but have belief. I find placebo's very interesting. They have been studied quite a bit. For medical placebo's, injections work best, then pills, then tablets. Color even affects things. People see “blue” as calming, so for certain placebo's the pills are blue. The mind (belief) is a mysterious thing.
Quote I think you have faith in the idea that there are no gifts of the Spirit for today even though the Spirit will be with us to the end and God is generous. Because you have faith in that, it explains the powerful effect it has on your view of this. Again, much like the ouija board, I would believe what I believe regardless, because I have spent a great deal of time looking at what is real, reality.
Reality is that there are sick people who believe in God. Paul, had his affliction. You have your back problems. People are sick all the time. Why not just have the elders….oh, you aren't part of a congregation. I'm not even sure how you would apply the scripture we were recently discussing T8. But, imagine you were part of whatever group 2becee is part of. Are there none that are physically sick among his group? Why are some not healed? lack of faith?
“My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the Spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God.”—1 John 4:1, Today’s English Version.
When I tested these things out, I did not find the spirit of God. I found:
–deception,
–human mind at work through:
self deception, and placebo effect.
–misunderstanding of probability, coincidence, statistics, mathHi Marty, how are you? I don't see you on here as much anymore.
Quote God said that He doesn't change, and if He was able to heal both physical and spiritual illness in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles, then He can surely do it now. marty, I never said he couldn't. Surely he could do a lot of things now that he doesn't do.
Quote Gene gave you the scriptures relative to healing, and if you believe the Word of God, and exercise your faith in the Word of God then God will heal you. He may do it instaneously, or He may do it in a process, or he may do it through a medical doctor. There are some things like High blood pressure, or diabetes that are diet and exercise related, and you might have to cooperate with God by canging your life style in order to get healed. I do not remember Jesus or the apostles saying: 'This might heal right away if you believe enough, but it may take some time, or you might want to see a physician.' Jesus had a 100% success rate. What we have here is a person wanting to believe. If the person feels better right away, it is viewed as miracle. (people get better by themselves, but that is not mentioned) If it takes a while, they it is still a miracle. (people often get better over time by themselves, but that is not mentioned, it's a miracle.) If it doesn't happen this way, God may heal you through a doctor which you have to go see. (How is any of this different than any other person on the planet?)
Quote But if you do not believe God's Word it is a waste of time to ask Him to do anything for you. His Word is true. If He said it, then He is able to perform what He said.
I have no doubt about this.Quote All of the gifts of the Spirit are still active in the “true church of the living God”. If you can name this church that would be great. Thanks.
Hi T8,
Quote This is how healing works for me. God gave me a body that heals itself. Thus I let my body heal itself.
God also gave Stu such a body. But, Stu has no faith.
Quote If the symptoms are painful, I may take some medication to dull that effect. Usually I don't. If that healing is not working or if I need a quicker healing for an important reason, then I will ask God through prayer. T8, this is the way it works for everyone who believes in God. Let me tell you a story. I have a massive tension headache, perhaps a migraine, that leads to dizziness, nausea and often vomiting. Sleep is the only relief. Clenching my head, pulling my hair, because it seems to relieve the pain by half of 1 percent. Any medication just makes the headache angry and I vomit. I pray to God for any relief. I pray to God to make the pain go away. I start to wonder if God is punishing me. I pray and I pray and I pray. Eventually i sometimes vomit, which relieves the pain for about 10 or 20 minutes. But the pain comes back. I lay in bed praying, wondering what anyone does to deserve this pain. But the pain does not go away until I manage to fall asleep.
Now, repeat this story about 200-250 times through my childhood and adolescence.
All those times I was praying, i believed (had faith) that God would help. Why would I be praying for help if i didn't believe? I found it comforting somehow. But it never really did help. Sleep helped. And it is very hard to fall asleep in such pain. What eventually helped 20 years later was someone mentioning a food, a food I love, that causes headaches in some people. And that's all it took. One person giving me knowledge. If any of those 250 times I prayed for hours so desperately for help, God would have just sent someone to tell me those few words that this one person said. Later, I found out that it wasn't just that one food, but any food with tyramine in it, a chemical that forms in food that is ripe. The longer a food sits, the more tyramine. Grapes, fine, Raisons, no. processed meats, horrible. Fresh foods good, ripe foods bad. Alchohol, bad, especially red wine. Cheese, not so good.
Can someone please explain how healing was supposed to work in this 2 decade long experience I had? What should I have done?
94 said;
Quote exercise your faith in the Word of God then God will heal you.
In the Bible, it is never lack of faith on the part of the one that is supposed to be healed, but it was lack of faith on the ones doing the healing that one time.
It should not be “faith healing” as in, if I have faith, I will be healed. It should be: The one doing the healing has faith, and supplication to God on the part of such a one has much merit.Quote In New Zealand one in 3 people get skin cancer due to the clean air and light ozone. I am one of those people. A melanoma appeared on my skin and when a specialist saw it, he cut it out immediately. It didn't spread and I have a scar to remind me. Thus I have no problem with medical professionals. What everyone here has to realize is, there are thousands of people who have had skin cancer and died, because they went to a faith healer and he told them their skin was healed and it looked better, so they forgot about it, believing all was fine. If they had gone to a doctor, they may well not have died.
To all, we have to remember that we live in a different time than in the early church. I do believe we are in the last days and true faith is diluted in greed and fame or fortune.
We seem to have more against us, (Christians) than for us when we spend more time at work, school family etc.
We don't have people, (or ourselves) that are willing to do what the disciples and Paul did, to “not love our lives”.
I have no problem believing that if we would give our all to God and find His will for us, (making an all out effort to find, or have faith) then He can use us to pray for one another and see more healings in our day.
The bible says that we should seek first the Kingdom of God, but we have found a way to make God our cosmic butler and do our bidding without seeking Him and His will.
Notwithstanding there have been some in the past who have miracles of healings in their ministry.
The problem is that man has a hard time with this kind of power working in their lives. Most all I have read about had problems copping with it that evidently it brought them down.
Paul said that in the last days men will be lovers of themselves and have tickling ears to hear things that will benefit them without any effort or seeking God and to obedience to His Word.
Would to God we would see a re-kindling of the fire of the Holy Ghost on us.
Richtuner, are the hearings in the bible, in JEsus or the apostles time, anything like the healing you believe takes place today?
Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,14:34) Hi bjee, I believe in and understand the placebo effect if that is what you are saying. You said faith healing is exactly as it says, faith healing. If the person has faith or belief that they will be healed, they are much more likely to feel better or heal themself.
As t8 recently said, belief is powerful. And it is.
Can you provide any examples where this type of healing occurs? Which illness for example?
David, one example then.Man down the road was insane, daily dramas, yelling, wife screaming, kids crying, police, ambulances….
One day I had had enough and I prayed with faith for it to stop and it did and it never occurred again.
See the man and his family today smiling like nothing ever happened.He doesn't know about my prayer but I know God will touch him.
Some healing is for health issues I hear but some is deeper and then some just need a healing of their heart and God can do that.
God also works with nature.
One example is disease caused by vitamin deficiency.
I have been led to a cure for somebody with that by God.Quote (david @ Nov. 30 2012,14:51) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,10:39) David, seeing that you are i think a JW, let me ask you something: How come that JWs have the highest rate of mental illness apparently? Is it because, in one of the JW magazines, people were advised to go and see their GP when suffering from depression etc and to 'take a Prozac' instead of turning to God?
Sad David, really sad.
Perhaps you should turn instead to Adventistism, as they do believe in healing, though they do not believe in hell, so there are some similarities.
——————-
(If you are not a JW, I am so sorry!)
Hi 2becee,I'm not sure why you are bringing up JW high mental illness rate in this thread. Yes, I have studied JW's including the mental illness common among them. They do have higher depression despite believing they are the happiest people on earth.
But, your understanding of why is just wrong. It is guilt, fear, pressure, change, etc that increase depression rate among witnesses. You are exactly wrong–JW's seem to hate psychiatrists or psychologists, and therefore are much less likely to take things like prescription medications than the average person. They say that psychiatrists use “human wisdom,” and they are generally shunned. In fact, they are told to turn to God and pray for help in dealing with anything like depression. Psychology or talk therapy with a professional or prescription drugs are sort of a viewed as last resort, or not even mentioned as an option. Given the higher than normal mental illness rate, AND their avoidance of mental health professionals, AND their attitude of trusting in Gods help in these things, your CONCLUSIONS ARE SIMPLY WRONG. I have been studying this for years. I've actually looked at the actual studies that deal with mental health and religion.I would strongly advise that they seek out psychologists more. I do understand the reasons why they are actually shunned though.
This is getting off topic. As for faith healing, show me any example.
I can say: it doesn't exist today because THE BIBLE says the gifts of the spirit were to be done away with, but equally important, it simply doesn't exist today. I checked. Perhaps that is the discussion we should be having. See any “tongues” thread.
David, the advice to see a Doctor and to take prescription medication in regard to mental health issues was actually in a Jehovah's Witness magazine – and there was not (that I could remember) any mention whatsoever to seek help from prayer. I mentioned this to the two Jehovah's Witnesses who I had been reading with and they told me that healing, etc, does not happen today and that Satan can appear to do those things –and you wonder why……
How can you combine faith in God but not trust in His healing?
You say David that this is for another thread but David, no it is not!
Okay if it is I will drop it.
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