FAITH HEALING

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=jYjgeayfYPI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjYjgeayfYPI

Participant

Faith healing through the eyes of a magician.

Derren selects someone and teaches him how to do faith healing.

November 24, 2012 at 2:45 am#321631

Participant

Although I have seen documentaries that covered this before, I have never seen someone take someone off the street, and turn them into a faith healer in 6 months.

This show shows many of the tricks that are used: how being “slain in the spirit” works.

Even how they appear to heal blind people or deaf people.

It's just a giant magic show. But, exploitive magic. This show really makes a person feel disgusted towards these people.

November 24, 2012 at 3:02 am#321636

http://www.bible.ca/tongues-popoff-39-17Mhz.htm

Participant

from your alliance or affiliation:
david,

Quote

I do not believe n faith healing. See thread and video “faith healing”

I have seen many videos on youtube that shows what these faith healers do and show how they do some of their works it deceive people.

The one who was caught red handed was Peter Popoff. this can be found here

Having said that, I do believe that God can and does heal today. the answer to this if found in how and why God healed in the first place

If you notice in the Gospels Jesus never turned anyone down for a physical need,(healing). He even raised some from the dead, especially the young who died early, (other than Lazarus)

The reason He did this has to be based on Atonement. God can do nothing for man outside of Atonement.

I have no answer why some people don't get healed when healing or any other benefit from God is based on Atonement.

David said in Ps. 103:3 that healing as well as forgiveness is a benefit.

If it is based on Atonement, then we all can expect God to answer our prayers for this need, but atlas we find that a whole lot of people who believe in healing don't get healed by prayer, but by medicine.

November 24, 2012 at 4:55 am#321638

Participant

Hi richtuner,

I believe that the healing, speaking in tongues, and other miraculous gifts were used in that day to establish credibility, as a sign, and to spring the newly formed Christian congregation forward.

But those things were “done away with.”

Here is a post I made a while back in another thread dealing on speaking in tongues. But it also applies to healing today as well:

WHY THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES WAS GIVEN

First of all, the apostle Paul explains at Hebrews 2:2-4 that the miraculous gifts, which would include the gift of tongues, were given to the first-century Christians to verify that God’s favor had shifted from the old Jewish arrangement for worship to the newly established Christian congregation.
The shift of divine favor was well established by the latter part of the first century, while some of the apostles of Jesus Christ were yet alive.

That the gift of tongues also served another purpose can be seen from Jesus’ words to his disciples shortly before his ascension to heaven in 33 C.E. He said:
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)

The small group of disciples did not include persons who spoke the languages of every part of the earth. But, true to Jesus’ promise, about 10 days later, on the festival day of Pentecost, the holy spirit was poured out on about 120 of his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem. The result? They “started to speak with different tongues” and so could proceed immediately to carry out the assigned work of witnessing.—Acts 2:1-4.

When those disciples gave a witness in Jerusalem at the festival of Pentecost, Jews and proselytes who had come from faraway places for the festival were heard to say:
“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)

It is obvious that the tongues mentioned here were known languages, not unintelligible speech. And notice that the gift was used in harmony with the purpose for which Jesus said the spirit would be given, namely, to witness to others.
It notably served that purpose, for “on that day about three thousand souls were added.”—Acts 2:41.

Another instance when the outpouring of holy spirit was accompanied by the gift of tongues is reported on at Acts 10:44-46. If you read the account you will notice that when God’s spirit fell upon the Gentile Cornelius and his household, they, too, began “speaking with tongues.” Commenting on what he had observed on that occasion, the apostle Peter said:
“But when I started to speak, the holy spirit fell upon them just as it did also upon us in the beginning.”

So, according to Peter, the gift of tongues bestowed on that occasion was the same gift received several years previously at Pentecost—a miraculous ability to speak foreign languages. The Bible shows that the gift of tongues given to Cornelius and his household convinced Peter and those with him that God was now accepting uncircumcised Gentiles into the congregation. God was now using the Christian congregation.—Acts 11:15-18.

NICK pointed out 1 Corinthians 14:2. Did not Paul say, “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God”?’

First of all, it should be noted that Paul is not here discussing private prayer but, rather, the use of the gift of tongues at a congregational meeting. (See 1 Corinthians 14:23.) Moreover, Paul’s words are in complete harmony with both the purpose for which the gift of tongues was given and the description of the gift given in the book of Acts. If you read the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians, you will notice that
(1) the tongues referred to were known languages, not unintelligible speech, and
(2) the gift was to be used, not privately, but for the benefit of unbelievers.

Let us read verse 2 in its entirety. It states: “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God, for no one listens, but he speaks sacred secrets by the spirit.”
The Greek word translated “tongue,” glossa, is the same word as that used at Acts 2:4, 11, where it obviously has reference to known languages. The Greek word translated “listens” can denote hearing something without understanding what is stated. This can be better understood in the light of verses 13, 16 and 17 of 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, where we read:

“Therefore let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may translate. Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the man occupying the seat of the ordinary person [or, unbeliever; see verses 22-25.] say ‘Amen’ to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? True, you give thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up.”

Simply put, the one speaking in a tongue speaks to God rather than to men if the men who are listening do not understand what he is saying. Paul had in mind not unintelligible speech but foreign languages that potentially could be understood by others. But if, in fact, none of those present could understand the language and if there were no interpreters present, then the one who spoke the tongue should pray that he might translate it and thus build up others, especially the unbelievers. If there was no one to translate, then, as the scripture says, it would be better for him to keep silent.—1 Cor. 14:28.

What about today? Would not gifts such as tongues be necessary to ‘indicate the presence of the holy spirit’ in a person?

A PART OF CHRISTIANITY TODAY?
The Scriptures show that the miraculous gifts given to first-century Christians were only temporary in nature.
“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.” (1 Cor. 13:8)

Does the Bible give any indication as to when the gifts would cease? YES, it does.

Read for yourself the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6. You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present.
According to Acts 8:18, “through the laying on of the hands of the apostles the spirit was given.”
Logically, then, with the death of the apostles, the transmitting of the gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ceased.

The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them.—Compare Colossians 1:23.

‘But if the gifts have ceased, then what accounts for modern-day manifestations?’ some may ask.

Could it be possible that the modern-day gift of tongues is not from God? Admittedly, accepting this may be difficult for those who claim to have the gift. Of the 5,000,000 adult Americans who claim to speak in tongues, 33 percent do not even believe that the Devil is a personal being and that he can influence others. Well, then, how can you know for sure from what source modern-day manifestations come?

November 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm#321726

Participant

all

i would not call it faith healing but faith with godly intervention ,this his what always as been and always will ,now this means that the intervention could be for some one healed,saved from a deadly accident,to see the grace of God ,to recognized truth in his word,or protection from wicket peoples plot,and the so kind….

this is what the kingdom of Christ is al about for now

November 24, 2012 at 6:53 pm#321727

Participant

now further more what makes one helpped by God while not the other ,this is another topic.

November 24, 2012 at 10:37 pm#321754

kerwin

Participant

To all,

This is just vanity as Jehovah states he may choose to heal those with faith and therefore he may choose to heal those with faith.

He also states he may choose to give certain individuals the authority to do wonders and therefore he does so.

Those that are false do not disprove those that are true.

Why should we listen to the words of those who are wise by the standards of these times.

November 24, 2012 at 11:41 pm#321758

Participant

regardless what you, (everyone) says about healing, when you get sick you will look to God and medicine together for healing. People who say God put this sickness or disease on them will always go to a doctor trying to get well thus trying to thwart the will of God for them.
That don't make any sense.
I would rather believe that healing is for me so that If I ever need healing I don't have to start from scratch learning weather or not it would be God's will or not.
I would rather die believing God than accepting death in doubt.

November 25, 2012 at 2:19 am#321772

Participant

Quote (Richtuner @ Nov. 25 2012,04:41)

good post rich.

But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?”
Da 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter.
Da 3:17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king.
Da 3:18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.

Job 2:9 His wife said to him, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!”
Job 2:10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

many say they believe ,but not in full heart like Job, and Daniel friends ,

if your faith is mature ,IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT WILL HAPPEN ARE WE NOT IN GODS HAND I AM WHY WOULD I FEAR DEAD I HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR CONTRARY MY COURSE HERE WOULD BE ENDED ,jUST LIKE PAUL SAID ,

trust God ,and his son ,but can you

November 25, 2012 at 7:15 am#321816

Participant

I feel Tim's words express what so many feel and what everyone should know, and so include them here:

David,
Thanks for that video. I did enjoy it.

My first wife was diagnosed with MS at the young age of 32.
By the age of 36 she was quadriplegic, blind, on a respirator and unable to do
anything for herself. I fed her, bathed her medicated her and cared for her every need.

I prayed daily for God to ease her pain. I prayed daily for God to intervene in the slightest way, but He never did. So I thought that it was my fault. My faith was not strong enough.

I wouldn't abandon her to a nursing facility because I didn't want for her to lose what little hope that she had.
Watching her waste away the way that she did was devastating to my children who were only 9 and 10 years old at the time. My girl who is now a grown woman is doing well today, but no longer believes in a god. My son fell into drugs and alcohol and I haven't seen him in over twenty years. I think he may still be alive. Needless to say I felt very much like Job must have felt in the bible.

The reason for this long story is that as a last resort, since the doctors were unable to help, and God wouldn't, I took her to a faith healer that was visiting our city. I rolled her into the arena in a reclining wheelchair with a portable respirator so she could breath. Ernest Angley was this faith healers name. I put all of my hope in this man, that maybe God would listen to him, even if he ignored me. I truly believed that God was healing these people through this faith healer.

I prayed fervently with Mr. Angley for my wife's healing, and gave money that I couldn't afford to his ministry which I sorely needed to pay for existing health care expenses.
Desperation can make a person very gullible.
Three months later my wife died in my home. I forgave God, and actually remained a Christian for many years after, but I never forgave Ernest Angley.

Until this day I curse these greedy leaches that build up false hope for money. I would love to do what this man in the video did to expose them.

Tim

November 25, 2012 at 7:21 am#321817

Participant

Quote (Richtuner @ Nov. 25 2012,09:41)

Richtuner, I don't doubt that many people turn to God in times of desperation. But God is not found in faith healers. Satan is found in the faith healers in the video I provided. These are bad people. They are actually the worst people.

I have spent a great deal of time studying belief, placebo effects, things like faith healing. The power of the mind to create miraculous effects on the body is exceeded only by the power of the mind to deceive itself.

November 25, 2012 at 7:25 am#321818

Participant

Quote

Those that are false do not disprove those that are true.

Why should we listen to the words of those who are wise by the standards of these times.

–kerwin

You can listen to no human.
Or, You can listen to the foolish of is time.
Or, you can listen to the wise of this time.

While the wisdom of the world is said to be foolishness to God, proverbs repeatedly highlights “thinking ability” as being a good thing.

Sure, 1000 fake faith healers do not cancel out one true faith healer.

Out of curiosity, what is his name?

November 25, 2012 at 11:04 am#321832

kerwin

Participant

Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,12:25)

Quote

Those that are false do not disprove those that are true.

Why should we listen to the words of those who are wise by the standards of these times.

–kerwin

You can listen to no human.
Or, You can listen to the foolish of is time.
Or, you can listen to the wise of this time.

While the wisdom of the world is said to be foolishness to God, proverbs repeatedly highlights “thinking ability” as being a good thing.

Sure, 1000 fake faith healers do not cancel out one true faith healer.

Out of curiosity, what is his name?

David,

Jehovah is his name.

I doubt he has chosen any to give certain person the ability to heal in his name as I believe it is currently the time prophets of God claim to be laborers from there youth, even though they bear the marks of Christ. It is nevertheless clear he is still active and doing wonders. I could be mistaken.

Demons could certainly be active but unwilling to reveal their presence to man. I tend to think they are more prone to use the wonders of science as it seems a snare to many.

Being demons they most likely rebel against that inclination at times.

November 25, 2012 at 6:24 pm#321888

Participant

I will be reluctant to endorse any so call faith healers, but I still can not get beyond the Word.
I believe God does not put sickness or diseases on His people.
In John chapter 9 there is a story about a man born blind and if you read it right you will see that it was not God or the work of God that made this man blind.
3John 3 says it is God's will that we prosper and be in health.

I wish I had the answer as to why healing is not as prevalent as when Jesus walked on the earth, but faith is faith weather in the Old Testament or the New.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

November 25, 2012 at 7:47 pm#321901

Participant

Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,12:15)

I feel Tim's words express what so many feel and what everyone should know, and so include them here:

David,
Thanks for that video. I did enjoy it.

I prayed daily for God to ease her pain. I prayed daily for God to intervene in the slightest way, but He never did. So I thought that it was my fault. My faith was not strong enough.

Until this day I curse these greedy leaches that build up false hope for money. I would love to do what this man in the video did to expose them.

Tim

david

this is a good story ,but manythings are missing in it ,it kind a give a false impression to me ;

even though it is sad in it self,

November 25, 2012 at 9:13 pm#321917

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………….Jesus said…..> Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that i do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do; becasue I go unto my Father.

Whosoever that has ears to hear let him hear. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

November 25, 2012 at 9:50 pm#321927

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 26 2012,07:13)

Whosoever that has ears to hear let him hear. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

The main work Jesus did was preach. He was called a “teacher” not known as a healer.

“But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43)

Also in John he says: for this I have been born and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.

They are greater works because they are on a much larger scale. Jesus told his followers to go and preach to all the nations. In this sense, it is a greater work. As for things like walking on water and feeding people miraculously, people are not REALLY doing that today.

November 25, 2012 at 10:43 pm#321937

kerwin

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 25 2012,16:04)

Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,12:25)

Quote

Those that are false do not disprove those that are true.

Why should we listen to the words of those who are wise by the standards of these times.

–kerwin

You can listen to no human.
Or, You can listen to the foolish of is time.
Or, you can listen to the wise of this time.

While the wisdom of the world is said to be foolishness to God, proverbs repeatedly highlights “thinking ability” as being a good thing.

Sure, 1000 fake faith healers do not cancel out one true faith healer.

Out of curiosity, what is his name?

David,

Jehovah is his name.

Demons could certainly be active but unwilling to reveal their presence to man. I tend to think they are more prone to use the wonders of science as it seems a snare to many.

Being demons they most likely rebel against that inclination at times.

To all,

I could be mistaken about the times; not about Jehovah being living and active.

November 25, 2012 at 11:28 pm#321956

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (david @ Nov. 26 2012,07:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 26 2012,07:13)

Whosoever that has ears to hear let him hear. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

The main work Jesus did was preach. He was called a “teacher” not known as a healer.

“But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43)

Also in John he says: for this I have been born and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.

To All………..Jesus said…..> And these Signs shall follow them that believe ; In my name shall they cast out devils ; and the shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Paul said…… And God has set some in the Church first apostlles, secondarily prophets, thirdly, teachers and after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Paul said……. He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you does he it by works of the law, or by the hearing of your faith?

And again Paul told us this…..> If any be sick among you let him call the elders and let them anoint him and pray over him and the prayer of Faithe shall save the sick

Jesus also said………..When the son of man comes will he find faith on the earth?

Maybe there is not many Mircales today becasue there is not much true Faith today. I believe it is impossible to be in contact with God and Jesus and Not have Mircales take place in your life at times. I have had hundreds of them take place in my life even withnessed by others also. Mircales give us proof of the unseen God in our lives. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………………gene

November 28, 2012 at 8:37 pm#322450