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To have faith you must Believe and trust. Believing is with the mind and trusting is with the heart.
ok, i was going to put this on an already started post and stuff, but i really couldn't find what i was looking for so…yeah.
If you have Faith only…or works only…i don't believe it would work out that way…i mean, even the demons believed in Jesus. They believed fully well he was there and all that happened, but the fact isn't that they BELIEVED, but they didn't trust in him, they didn't do works either. you see, they had 1/2 faith since to have faith you must believe AND trust. But 1/2 faith won't get u anywhere. nor will it do without works.
Ok…but if you have WORKS only…i don't believe that would work out either. Yous see, thats the way the Pharisees were…thats what we call nominal christians i think.
But you have to have both faith And Works.
Lets say faith is the ruit of a tree and the works is the fruit. First you have to have faith, thats where its started, then the fruit is the works. You cant' have the works (Fruit) before the faith (ruits).
i probably just confused everyone right now. but what do you think of this? anyone?
Hi itsme, hope you're well.
Could you just clarify for me whether this issue is in a salvation or post-salvation context?
Regardsis 1:18,
i'm not sure what itsme will answer to your question, but i think seeing as we're all “being saved”, its kind of both…
cheers,
nate.
hey. yeah, the only thing i was saying is that to be actually saved and be glorifying the Lord, you can't only have faith, but you can't only have works either. It requires both together, but faith comes before the works. but you still need both of them.
in other words – faith without works is hypocracy, and works without faith are dead works… but does salvation begin now, or at the final reckoning??
Quote in other words – faith without works is hypocracy, and works without faith are dead works… but does salvation begin now, or at the final reckoning?? Exactly!
thats interesting, and i don't exactly know for sure.
Salvation i'm sure, can begin now and keep on it until the final reckoning…wouldn't you think? hm…what would you say?Quote (itsme @ Aug. 31 2004,04:54) hey. yeah, the only thing i was saying is that to be actually saved and be glorifying the Lord, you can't only have faith, but you can't only have works either. It requires both together, but faith comes before the works. but you still need both of them.
I totally agree
I Don't.
Faith saves nobody.Yes without faith no one can please God but faith is given to lead us to obedience in following Jesus and being born again of water and the Holy Spirit.Works saves nobody[with the lone exception of the sheep and goat judgement].Yes once you have received your gift of salvation through that obedience we must produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit which includes good works.
Faith plus works saves nobody-anyone who wants to save his own life will lose it.This is a false teaching.
Repent, believe and be baptised in the Name of Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
hey nick,
Quote
Repent, believe and be baptised in the Name of Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.i agree with you, but we can't believe in jesus without faith, and without faith it is impossible to please god. works are the evidence of our faith (our obedience to jesus)… so i see all these things are tied together – inseparable…
cheers,
nate.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2004,15:24) I Don't.
Faith saves nobody.Yes without faith no one can please God but faith is given to lead us to obedience in following Jesus and being born again of water and the Holy Spirit.
……..Faith plus works saves nobody-anyone who wants to save his own life will lose it.This is a false teaching.
Repent, believe and be baptised in the Name of Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
But you said it yourself, how can we come to obedience if we don't have faith? We know that we cannot be saved if we have no faith. Therefore we must have a measure of faith to even respond and believe the message.Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.Did not Jesus work with those who had faith, e.g. your faith has made you whole. But to the unbelieving he wasn't able to wrought miracles.
Once we are saved we must continue in faith to hold onto our salvation. If we lose our faith even after our salvation, do you think that we will contine to be saved?
Faith without works is dead and we must have faith in order to be saved and to please God. So it has to be true that we need faith in order to be saved.
Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.Titus 1:2
a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,You misunderstand t8. Yes we need faith, yes we need works..but they are not what saves us but obedience to the simple demands that faith leads us to.
Demons believe but it does not save them.
The jews trust in their works but only perfection is sufficient and all have sinned.
Faith in God, Faith in Jesus, Faith in the Old Testament and Faith in the Gospel of Jesus and the teachings of His followers all point in the direction that Jesus showed us we must follow… obedience to God's simple demand that we be born again.
Loss of faith only causes us to lose salvation if we reject Jesus as a consequence, because He will always remain faithful to us.
Cool,
It is by faith that we recieve God's Spirit. Without faith we cannot recieve it.
So going back to what itsme said
“hey. yeah, the only thing i was saying is that to be actually saved and be glorifying the Lord, you can't only have faith, but you can't only have works either. It requires both together, but faith comes before the works. but you still need both of them.”
I believe his words are true as we need faith in order to receive from God.
Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of GodSo yes salvation is by God but we receive it through our faith.
1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.We also know that men like Moses and Abraham were and are saved. Yet they lived before the gospel of Christ, but through faith they were able to receive it.
I think we need to define our terms here bc I don't believe belief equates to faith.
I look at it this way:
Assume I weigh 125kg, I can look at a decrepid chair and believe it will hold me. But it isn't until I actually sit in it that I have exercised faith.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 21 2004,01:29) I think we need to define our terms here
Definitely agreed!This subject always seems to turn into a tangle of semantics
If faith is trusting in something, then belief is perhaps the lowest form of faith. To believe in something means that you trust that it is true to the point of accepting it intellectually or as a fact. But losing or risking your life for your belief is the greatest expression of that belief and therefore is great faith.
The terms great faith and little faith show degrees of faith. Yet they are both faith.
I believe that you need faith in order to believe in the first place just as you need faith to close the mouth of lions and to walk on water.
And yes even the demons believe. But their belief is not based on trusting that something is true, rather that they have the proof. As Jesus put it to Thomas:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”So surely a belief in something that you have not seen is of faith?
Hi,
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Faith too is not of us but is a gift. It is the seed planted in ploughed soil that grows in us to salvation- a salvation that is complete now but we have to ” work out ” till we receive our reward. It is a plant that if watered with the life giving Spirit produces growth and fruit and becomes a tree in which many can enjoy shelter.
I see the trunk of the tree being Faith through which nourishing grace from the Father can flow into the branches leaves and fruit.That is why if your trunk becomes diseased with doubt then you can expect nothing from the Lord.
Likewise unless you allow growth your building is as straw which is blown away with the winds of life's challenges.hey nick,
cool tree analogy…
not sure about faith being a gift though… jesus said that if you have faith as a mustard-seed you can move mountains… but he continually called his disciples “you of little faith” – this doesn't really make sense to me if faith comes from god…
alternatively, i suppose god did harden the heart of pharoah… but is this related to faith or something else? hmm… maybe it comes back to that old faith vs belief thing…
any thoughts?
cheers,
nate.
Quite so nate,
The seed is the Word and we are soil. Talking to born again christians Paul spoke of faith being unevenly apportioned in Rom 12.2 and in 1Cor 12.9 he talks of faith as a gift of the Spirit. That faith is more than knowledge as Rom 1.18 tells us everyone has the knowledge, and thus no excuse, but the just man shall live by faith.
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