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Seeking said:
Quote Can you help me with this one? I do not follow your reasoning. The conversation of John 15 started back in John
13 during and after the foot washing example. So, the conversation was being held with Jews, more specifically,
the Apostles.Seeking,
It is apparent that I could have articulated myself more clearly. The term “world” in John 15 refers specifically to unbelieving Jews. It could not have referred to Gentiles because they had no written law. They had only the revelation of God in nature (Rom. 1-2). We know that the “world” was unbelieving Jews because Jesus said that they hated Him and also in 14:17 Jesus said that they cannot receive the Spirit of God.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 17 2009,09:08) Seeking,
It is apparent that I could have articulated myself more clearly. The term “world” in John 15 refers specifically to unbelieving Jews. It could not have referred to Gentiles because they had no written law. They had only the revelation of God in nature (Rom. 1-2). We know that the “world” was unbelieving Jews because Jesus said that they hated Him and also in 14:17 Jesus said that they cannot receive the Spirit of God.thinker
Thinker,Thank you for being kind enough to take the time to clarify.
I do appreciate it. I see your point although it seems the hatred would reside with unbelieving Gentiles also even though they did not have the law and could not receive the Spirit.I agree though that the stronger application would be to Jews,
the chosen, whom one would think would receive Jesus but rejected Him.Thanks again for the clarification!
Seeking
Hi S,
The stronger application would be to Jews?
Surely all outside of Christ are of the world and it's god.Jn3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.No specificity to Jews there.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2009,11:16) Hi S,
The stronger application would be to Jews?
Surely all outside of Christ are of the world and it's god.Jn3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.No specificity to Jews there.
Burger King! Have it your way.Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 17 2009,11:44) 942767 said: Quote I believe that you hit on the problem, and that is that men are ordaining men to teach them the bible, but it should not be men who are doing the ordaining but God who should ordain those who teach His Word. First, we agree that men should not ordain men to teach the Bible. Ordination is altogether unbiblical because it involves the laying on of hands and that has ceased (Heb. 6:1-2). Second, the ordination of men by God also is not needed today because in the new covenant age we do not need to be taught as I have shown from Hebrews. It says that God's law is written in the mind and upon the heart now. The result of this is that “NONE shall teach us”. So why would God ordain men today?
No ordination of any kind is necessary today by men or by God.
thinker
Hi thethinker:And so, are you teaching me or what?
942767 wrote:
Quote Hi thethinker: And so, are you teaching me or what? Ideally you should be self taught. I have already said that one of the reasons we ordain pastors is because we are too lazy to study the Bible for ourselves. You have the law in your mind and in your heart. This was not true during the apostolic age. Ideally you should be self taught.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2009,19:34) 942767 wrote: Quote Hi thethinker: And so, are you teaching me or what? Ideally you should be self taught. I have already said that one of the reasons we ordain pastors is because we are too lazy to study the Bible for ourselves. You have the law in your mind and in your heart. This was not true during the apostolic age. Ideally you should be self taught.
thinker
Hi thethinker:I have been studying the Word of God with prayer for almost 30 years, and waiting for the position of Bishop in the church in which He has chosen to use me in this last day.
One cannot teach others until one is first taught himself.
You are correct that men should not be ordaining others to teach the Word of God. After all, it is His Word and He is the only one that can say who is qualified to teach it.
I believe that you have some surprises coming that will show you are not correct in teaching that we do not need ministers that are ordained by God to teach us.
My desire is God's very best for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
Marty942767 said:
Quote I have been studying the Word of God with prayer for almost 30 years, and waiting for the position of Bishop in the church in which He has chosen to use me in this last day. Marty,
What “last day” are you talking about? The Bible knows only the last day of the old covenant age. The new covenant age is forever. So you're waiting for a “last day” that will never come.thinker
Hitt,
Ephesians 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 21 2009,11:32) Hitt,
Ephesians 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Nick,
I agree with you, I think. Hebrews says that the new covenant is “everlasting” (Heb. 13:20). And Revelation says that the gospel is an “everlasting” message (Rev. 14:6). There is no “last day” of the new covenant. The “last day” was the end of the old covenant.thinker
Hi tt,
There is the millenial age to come and then the age where the Kingdom is given into God's own handsQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 21 2009,19:45) Hi tt,
There is the millenial age to come and then the age where the Kingdom is given into God's own hands
Are you saying that there are ages to come inwhich the gospel message is not offered? Are you saying that the new covenant is NOT an “everlasting” covenant?thinker
Hi TT,
The gospel is eternal but will not need to be forever preached.
Revelation 14:6
Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people.The gospel brings an opportunity for salvation.
None can be saved after the goats are thrown into the lake of fire as all who remain are saved.
Nick said:
Quote None can be saved after the goats are thrown into the lake of fire as all who remain are saved. Nick,
The goats of Israel were judged in AD70. Yet the gospel has been preached since then and will continue to be preached forever.thinker
Hi tt,
All men are either sheep or goats and there is one such judgement.
Mt25
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:The gospel will not need to be preached once the Son of God rules.
Nick said:
Quote All men are either sheep or goats and there is one such judgement.
Mt25
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:The gospel will not need to be preached once the Son of God rules.
Nick,
The “nations” that were gathered before Him were the tribes of Israel (Matt.24:30). The gospel is an “everlasing” gospel. The Son gave up His rule in AD70. Come to terms with it.thinker
Hi tt,
Really?
So the men of other nations cannot enjoy the Mercy of God?Can you show why you believe this from scripture?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,05:26) Hi tt,
Really?
So the men of other nations cannot enjoy the Mercy of God?Can you show why you believe this from scripture?
Nick,
The Gentiles came into salvation after the separation of the sheep and the goats of Israel.thinker
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