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Quote (Douglas @ Nov. 17 2009,01:12) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 17 2009,15:54) Also, I can't imagine that the Lord would tell me to pray prayers that weren't His will.
There's something slightly circular in this statement though – if it is in Gods will, what difference do you make through the prayers?I know many people pray, and yet, if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen? What function do the prayers perform?
Hi Doug,I've seen those prayers not only make a difference in my own life, but a difference in the lives of many others. Like I said in the challenge, it's ok with me if a person wants to pray those prayers for themselves.
I don't agree with the part about, “if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen”.
God doesn't force Himself or His will on anyone. Love forced is not love at all. That's not how God works. I for one have had many occasions in my life when I asked God to give me something, and He gave it to me. Then later when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to, I asked the Lord what was going on. In a number of different ways, the Lord has revealed to me that what I asked for was not what He wanted for me nor what was best for me. After a while, that got my attention and it changed the way I prayed. I don't want God's perfect plan for myself anymore, the plan that is full of grace and mercy for all the wrong choices and wrong prayers I prayed. I want God's perfect will, no matter what it costs me. I want God to replace my desires with His desires for me, and then, give me those desires. Will God give you the desires of your heart? The bible says that He will. Are we supposed to make God's desires to line up with our desires, or are we supposed to ask God to line our desires up with His?
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2009,15:44) Hi Chris: And so, did you ask Jesus to pray to God for you?
The disciples asked him to teach them to pray, and so, I am going to do what he has instructed us to do.
You can do whatever you want. I was just trying to help you to see this.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,I wasn't aware that I had to ask Jesus to do something He is already doing. The bible says that Jesus intercedes with the Father on my behalf already. I'm pretty sure that Jesus already knows to take my prayers to the Father. The bible also says that Jesus is my High Priest. Praying to the Father on my behalf is part of the responsibilities of My High Priest.
Certainly, do whatever God tells you to do. The Extreme Challenge was just that. The choice is for each person to choose how they will pray and what they will pray. That is something for each to work out with the Lord.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 19 2009,15:34)
Hi Doug,I've seen those prayers not only make a difference in my own life, but a difference in the lives of many others. Like I said in the challenge, it's ok with me if a person wants to pray those prayers for themselves.
I don't agree with the part about, “if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen”.
God doesn't force Himself or His will on anyone. Love forced is not love at all. That's not how God works. I for one have had many occasions in my life when I asked God to give me something, and He gave it to me. Then later when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to, I asked the Lord what was going on. In a number of different ways, the Lord has revealed to me that what I asked for was not what He wanted for me nor what was best for me. After a while, that got my attention and it changed the way I prayed. I don't want God's perfect plan for myself anymore, the plan that is full of grace and mercy for all the wrong choices and wrong prayers I prayed. I want God's perfect will, no matter what it costs me. I want God to replace my desires with His desires for me, and then, give me those desires. Will God give you the desires of your heart? The bible says that He will. Are we supposed to make God's desires to line up with our desires, or are we supposed to ask God to line our desires up with His?
Love ya,
Chris
Hi RFC,It sound like you described what it is to be a Christian rather well.
Thanks,
ED JQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2009,20:45) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 19 2009,15:34)
Hi Doug,I've seen those prayers not only make a difference in my own life, but a difference in the lives of many others. Like I said in the challenge, it's ok with me if a person wants to pray those prayers for themselves.
I don't agree with the part about, “if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen”.
God doesn't force Himself or His will on anyone. Love forced is not love at all. That's not how God works. I for one have had many occasions in my life when I asked God to give me something, and He gave it to me. Then later when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to, I asked the Lord what was going on. In a number of different ways, the Lord has revealed to me that what I asked for was not what He wanted for me nor what was best for me. After a while, that got my attention and it changed the way I prayed. I don't want God's perfect plan for myself anymore, the plan that is full of grace and mercy for all the wrong choices and wrong prayers I prayed. I want God's perfect will, no matter what it costs me. I want God to replace my desires with His desires for me, and then, give me those desires. Will God give you the desires of your heart? The bible says that He will. Are we supposed to make God's desires to line up with our desires, or are we supposed to ask God to line our desires up with His?
Love ya,
Chris
Hi RFC,It sound like you described what it is to be a Christian rather well.
Thanks,
ED J
Hello Ed,How are you. Sorry I haven't got to talk much. I've been kinda busy lately. Thank you for your kind words. As I have time, I'll try to get a bit more involved in some of the discussions here.
Love ya,
ChrisToday I got to talk with a very dear brother in Christ. I've known him for several years, but about a year ago he and I prayed the hard prayers together. He has continued to pray them as have I. After talking with him today, I realized once again, God's faithfulness to answer those prayers. God is doing such an amazing work in my brothers life and his heart has turned from self towards God. It filled my heart with joy and thanksgiving to hear him say, “I don't care what it costs. I want God to use me however He wants to.” He doesn't want his own way anymore. He wants whatever God wants for him. He literally is denying himself and taking up his cross and following Jesus, and for that I praise God. Today truly was a day of thanksgiving for me.
Thank You Lord
Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 26 2009,22:26) Today I got to talk with a very dear brother in Christ. I've known him for several years, but about a year ago he and I prayed the hard prayers together. He has continued to pray them as have I. After talking with him today, I realized once again, God's faithfulness to answer those prayers. God is doing such an amazing work in my brothers life and his heart has turned from self towards God. It filled my heart with joy and thanksgiving to hear him say, “I don't care what it costs. I want God to use me however He wants to.” He doesn't want his own way anymore. He wants whatever God wants for him. He literally is denying himself and taking up his cross and following Jesus, and for that I praise God. Today truly was a day of thanksgiving for me. Thank You Lord
Hey Rancher,
That's cool about your friend. Did he give you any specifics on how he was denying himself or do you want to share any specifics on how that has played out in your life. I'm sure we would all benefit from any real life scenarios.Bless ya,
KathiFunny thing, this brother in Christ has, for so long, held on pretty tightly to material things. Wouldn't ya just know that's where the Lord started cleaning house in his life. This brother told me that the Lord told him to start selling all his things. He also believes the Lord is getting him ready to travel and do full time mission work where ever the Lord leads him. I'm not sure what the Lord has told him to do, but he did tell me that the Lord has told him specifically what he is supposed to do, but he didn't feel like he had a release from the Lord to share the what and when of it.
I have watched him grow in the Lord for several years to some degree, but his heart has changed greatly within the last year more than ever before. He's letting go of everything and really laying hold of Christ.
I'll share more as the Lord leads me.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 27 2009,00:53) Funny thing, this brother in Christ has, for so long, held on pretty tightly to material things. Wouldn't ya just know that's where the Lord started cleaning house in his life. This brother told me that the Lord told him to start selling all his things. He also believes the Lord is getting him ready to travel and do full time mission work where ever the Lord leads him. I'm not sure what the Lord has told him to do, but he did tell me that the Lord has told him specifically what he is supposed to do, but he didn't feel like he had a release from the Lord to share the what and when of it. I have watched him grow in the Lord for several years to some degree, but his heart has changed greatly within the last year more than ever before. He's letting go of everything and really laying hold of Christ.
I'll share more as the Lord leads me.
Love ya,
Chris
Hey Chris,
Has the Lord led this friend to give up his family (wife and children) or is he a single guy?Just wondering,
KathiHey Kathi,
This brother's life is similar to mine in some ways. Like me, I believe the Lord is asking him to lay everything down. Similar to me, his wife left him several years ago. Also similar to me, I believe that he decided that he wanted God more than anything else, and that just seems to end up costing a lot.
The following scripture is one of my favorites, because it is really a wake up call and is not for the faint of heart. Salvation isn't easy and heaven isn't cheap. That's just the way it is and I no longer believe that there is another way.
Philippians 2:12-18
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
17 Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.In verse 13 it talks about God's good pleasure. Well, we know that the scripture also says that it is impossible to please God without faith. We also know that it please the Father to bruise His Son.
What? How could that be? How could it possibly please any father to bruise his son? I believe that as the Father watched His Son fulfill every letter of the law, the very spirit of the law, fulfill every prophecy, obey every detail of every word the Father spoke to Him, that the Fathers heart was so full of absolute adoration for His beautiful Son when He crawled up on that cross and then said, “Father, forgive the because they don't know what they're doing.”Anyway, short question long answer. Have a good day.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 19 2009,15:34) Quote (Douglas @ Nov. 17 2009,01:12) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 17 2009,15:54) Also, I can't imagine that the Lord would tell me to pray prayers that weren't His will.
There's something slightly circular in this statement though – if it is in Gods will, what difference do you make through the prayers?I know many people pray, and yet, if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen? What function do the prayers perform?
Hi Doug,I've seen those prayers not only make a difference in my own life, but a difference in the lives of many others. Like I said in the challenge, it's ok with me if a person wants to pray those prayers for themselves.
I don't agree with the part about, “if it isn't in Gods will, it won't happen”.
God doesn't force Himself or His will on anyone. Love forced is not love at all. That's not how God works. I for one have had many occasions in my life when I asked God to give me something, and He gave it to me. Then later when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to, I asked the Lord what was going on. In a number of different ways, the Lord has revealed to me that what I asked for was not what He wanted for me nor what was best for me. After a while, that got my attention and it changed the way I prayed. I don't want God's perfect plan for myself anymore, the plan that is full of grace and mercy for all the wrong choices and wrong prayers I prayed. I want God's perfect will, no matter what it costs me. I want God to replace my desires with His desires for me, and then, give me those desires. Will God give you the desires of your heart? The bible says that He will. Are we supposed to make God's desires to line up with our desires, or are we supposed to ask God to line our desires up with His?
Love ya,
Chris
OK, fair enough, I take your points.The one thing I do note is that everything you said concerns the person asking God for something – does it change anything if that situation is reversed – and God is asking a person to do something?
Obviously that's the difference between the individual wanting something, and God wanting something?
I suppose part of my issue is that I'm not really a praying sort of person – if something needs done – I do it, if I can't do it, well, I can't do it – end of story.
Hey Doug,
I understand if you're not a praying person, then at least some of what I've said is going to seem pretty strange. Maybe there are a couple more differences between the individual wanting something and God wanting something. Like you said yourself, there is only so much you can do, and that's it. If God is really and He is who He says He is, then He can open a way for us to do what He wants. If He is God, then it's not magic, and He's not a genie. If He really is God, then what is He? He is sovereign. If He truly is God, then He knows everything that we don't know and He sees everything that we don't see, including what the outcome will be if we choose what we want. If He truly is God and He really loves us, even a Father, then maybe He wants what He wants for our good, and maybe He, above all others, knows what is best for us. If we look at Him as someone besides a selfish being that just wants His own way, then some huge possibilities open up to us. If He will really always do what's best for us, and that's His desire, then we can trust Him, no matter what. Isn't it just possible that He created us to be in relationship with Him?
By the way, nice response. I have enjoyed discussing this with you.
I love you,
Chris
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