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Just for the record, if you were one of those people who were born into a family who happens to be Jehovah’s Witnesses, and you decide not to be, and there is division in your family because of this–this was foretold as a part of true Christianity. (Mat 10:34-37)
And for those who don’t know, if you are born into a JW family and do not choose to be a Witness and don’t get baptized, then you cannot be disfellowshipped and you are free to associate with whomever you please. But if you choose to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and to represent Jehovah, and then later choose to act against Jehovah as a rebel, perhaps willfully practicing fornication as an example, and are not repentent, yes, you will be disfellowshiped, in line with the scriptures, so as to not have a bad influence on the congregation. (1 cor 5:1-13; deut 21:18-21; Titus 3:10, 11; 2 John 9-11)
This keeps the congregation clean and impresses on the unrepentent wrongdoer the need for sincere repentance with a view to recovering him.
With the Israelites, sometimes breaking Gods laws meant being “cut off,” in death. (Leviticus 17:14; 18:6-17, 21-29; deut 17: 2,12,13; Numbers 4:15, 18; 15:30, 31)In view of that, being “cut off” from association isn’t that bad.
Nick, is disfellowshipping or ex-communication a scriptural practice?
Nick, this is a yes or no question. Please, just yes or no. Or even, an yes, or no, and then you can go on about something else. But can you answer this question. Yes, or no?
Quote (david @ July 08 2008,17:20) Either he changed a word or two or it's a quote from 60-100 years ago. It's frustrating.
Hi David.Does truth change every 60 to 100 years?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2008,17:44) Hi David,
Only from the body of Christ.
Good answer Nick.Excommunication with the body of Christ is not the same as excommunication from the Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, or any other man-made church. Excommunication on Heaven Net is also not necessarily excommunication of the Body because people can be detached from posting here for abusing other people by their words, yet still preach the truth.
Excommunication with the Body of Christ is a serious thing because it is a detachment of the person from the body. It is done to bring discipline and reality to the person. If a person walks away from the truth and preaches a false gospel, then fellowshipping with him as if nothing was wrong, helps keep that person deceiving and being in deception, and also doesn't do you any favors if you are fellowshipping with him.
Quote (942767 @ July 08 2008,14:12) Hi DK: Let's analyze the scriptures that you have given that are used by the JW's to ex-communicate someone.
The Apostle Paul states:
Quote 1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.If you were practicing any of these sins mentioned wilfully or sin wilfully in general, then essentially you would have ex-communicated yourself, and so, yes this scripture would be a valid scripture to ex-communicate someone who is practicing sin wilfully.
1 John 5:19 states:
Quote 1Jo 5:19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. This implies that they are right and all others that profess Jesus as Lord are wrong. This of course is not authority to ex-communicate someone. It is speaking of the world verses a Christian.
2 John 9, & 10 states:
Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:Again, by using verse 9 as the authority to ex-communicate someone, they are saying they are the only denomination that has the truth. But the scripture states that if someone confesses Jesus as Lord it is a true spirit. Verse 10 speaks of someone who is preaching another gospel. Verse 9 would be athority to ex-commicate someone if they were practicing sin wilfully.
1 Ti 1:19, 20 states:
Quote 1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.Hymenaeus was overthrowing the faith of Christians by preaching that the resurrection had already occured.
Quote 2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.And Alexander:
Quote 2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
2Ti 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.Alexander was apparently arguing with Paul who was an Apostle (sent by God). Are any of the elders of the JW's Apostles?
DK my advise to you is to go the elders of the church telling them that you enjoy your fellowship with them and would like to continue, but let them know that you have a different understanding than what they are teaching. The Lord hates hypocrisy. It is better to be honest with them and let the consequences be as they may. They can't ex-communicate you from the kingdom of God. They may not want you to continue in their fellowship. I would suggest that you present them with your understanding of the doctrines or scriptures on which you differ with their teaching in writing, and also letting them see by the scriptures that although you may differ with them in these doctrines that you are a Christian according to the scriptures. I know that your family is involved here as well, and so, I would go to them first before you do any of this. It is better to be honest with them than for them to find out from someone else that you disagree with their doctrines.
This is my advice to you out of my love for you. Pray and ask God if this is consel coming from Him, and if it is act on it. If it is not, ignore it. Praying for you and your family.
God Bless
Thats good advice…I already sat down with them and had a heart to heart about where I differ on things scripturally…they offered to have a bible study with me…but I declined because as I told them…if you are not willing to seek truth independetly and away from any man made traditions and interpretations ..then the study would be useless…i am willing to admit I may not have everything 100% right..All a study would be with them would a chance for them to show me from Watchtower publications why I am wrong… even if I show them where they may be a little off or need to rethink some things..they will not do it..unless the Leadership states that there has been a change in doctrinal belief..
That is what frustrates me…people don't seek truth..they just borrow someone elses version…
Sorry but I am not with that
Quote (david @ July 08 2008,17:20) Quote We are not even to say a greeting to them. Not even “hello”. I ask…is this view of ex-communication scriptural…
Quoting what JW's believe “However, regarding any who were Christians but later repudiated the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: “Quit mixing in company with” such a one; and the apostle John wrote: “Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.“
“Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him.”–2 Jo 9,10
It's speaking of the “teaching of the Christ.” And it says: “If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him.”
Often groups or congregations of Christians regularly met together in houses to consider God’s Word. (Ro 16:5; 1Co 16:19; Col 4:15; Phm 2) But any who turned away from the teaching of the Christ were not welcomed in private homes.—2Jo 10.
That's apparently how the earliest, Christian congregation did it. I know of very few religions that follow this pattern. In fact, almost none.
This is the second time DK has given a quote from the society that I simply haven't been able to find. Either he changed a word or two or it's a quote from 60-100 years ago. It's frustrating.
David..you are a liar…flat out…be honest..When was the last time you said a greeting to a disfellowshipped one? EXACTLY..never..because if you did they would consider you a “sharer in his badness”…David…you know its true…
Quote (t8 @ July 08 2008,19:41) Quote (david @ July 08 2008,17:20) Either he changed a word or two or it's a quote from 60-100 years ago. It's frustrating.
Hi David.Does truth change every 60 to 100 years?
..with JW's it doesQuote (t8 @ July 08 2008,19:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2008,17:44) Hi David,
Only from the body of Christ.
Good answer Nick.Excommunication with the body of Christ is not the same as excommunication from the Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, or any other man-made church. Excommunication on Heaven Net is also not necessarily excommunication of the Body because people can be detached from posting here for abusing other people by their words, yet still preach the truth.
Excommunication with the Body of Christ is a serious thing because it is a detachment of the person from the body. It is done to bring discipline and reality to the person. If a person walks away from the truth and preaches a false gospel, then fellowshipping with him as if nothing was wrong, helps keep that person deceiving and being in deception, and also doesn't do you any favors if you are fellowshipping with him.
Amen…but the problem is JW's think the body of Christ only consists of its members…Hi DK,
All deception is like that.
Unless they claim exclusivity how could they control their members?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2008,10:18) Hi DK,
All deception is like that.
Unless they claim exclusivity how could they control their members?
exactlyQuote Nick, is disfellowshipping or ex-communication a scriptural practice? –me
Quote Hi David,
Only from the body of Christ.Hi Nick. And how would someone be disfellowshiped or ex-communicated?
In the earliest congregations, it's clear this was practiced. How do you Nick and those who you fellowship with practice this scripturally based teaching today?
Quote (t8 @ July 08 2008,19:41) Quote (david @ July 08 2008,17:20) Either he changed a word or two or it's a quote from 60-100 years ago. It's frustrating.
Hi David.Does truth change every 60 to 100 years?
What I meant when I said that t8, is that if it's a quote from 60 or more years ago, I have trouble accessing it. If it's from the past 50 years, it takes a second to fine. I had stated that I have trouble finding his quotes. He says their quotes. Well, my point was simply that I'd like to be able to find those quotes.Quote (dirtyknections @ July 09 2008,04:41) Quote (david @ July 08 2008,17:20) Quote We are not even to say a greeting to them. Not even “hello”. I ask…is this view of ex-communication scriptural…
Quoting what JW's believe “However, regarding any who were Christians but later repudiated the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: “Quit mixing in company with” such a one; and the apostle John wrote: “Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.“
“Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him.”–2 Jo 9,10
It's speaking of the “teaching of the Christ.” And it says: “If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him.”
Often groups or congregations of Christians regularly met together in houses to consider God’s Word. (Ro 16:5; 1Co 16:19; Col 4:15; Phm 2) But any who turned away from the teaching of the Christ were not welcomed in private homes.—2Jo 10.
That's apparently how the earliest, Christian congregation did it. I know of very few religions that follow this pattern. In fact, almost none.
This is the second time DK has given a quote from the society that I simply haven't been able to find. Either he changed a word or two or it's a quote from 60-100 years ago. It's frustrating.
David..you are a liar…flat out…be honest..When was the last time you said a greeting to a disfellowshipped one? EXACTLY..never..because if you did they would consider you a “sharer in his badness”…David…you know its true…
I'm not sure where I lied here. He certainly doesn't point out any lie.I think Dirty must think that I said he was disfellowshiped somewhere. I never said that. And I certainly don't believe that.
So where is the lie, if you are to call me a liar?
I have an idea. Why don't we discuss the scriptures that speak of ex-communication.
It's easy to say “JW's are a cult” and ignore scriptures, but if JW's are practicing disfellowshipping wrong, please point out why scripturally. To my knowledge, almost no group actually enforces this scriptural practice.
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/1975.html
For the TRUTH about the TRUTH of JW's
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