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exactly.
The only thing I wonder about if it is right to say that God indirectly created evil.
I have a painting hanging on my wall that I made, created. I guess we could say that God indirectly created that painting because he supplied everything for that painting, including myself. But is it right to say that God indirectly created that painting?As you say, Satan corrupted himself.
Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2006,00:39) LUKE 13:2-4
“So in reply he said to them: “Do YOU imagine that these Gal·i·le´ans were proved worse sinners than all other Gal·i·le´ans because they have suffered these things? No, indeed, I tell YOU; but, unless YOU repent, YOU will all likewise be destroyed. Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Si·lo´am fell, thereby killing them, do YOU imagine that they were proved greater debtors [sinners] than all other men inhabiting Jerusalem?”Kenrch, how would you respond to Jesus' words? If you were there in Jesus time, how would you have looked at those tragedies? Would you have imagined God was causing them?
Jesus here used a recent event to reject the false notion that tragedy befalls those who deserve it. Those 18 souls did not perish because of some sin that evoked divine displeasure. Rather, their tragic death was a result of time and unforeseen occurrence. (Ecclesiastes 9:11)
God “has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth.” (Acts 17:31)
That day has not begun.
David,
Verse 1 explains the subject of the lesson. But then you probably new that.Luk 13:1 Now there were some present at that very season who told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. Blood mixed with sacrificial blood is the issue. Their punishment was not WORSE than any of the other men's sins.
Luk 13:2 And he, in answer, said to them, Are you of the opinion that these Galilaeans were worse than all other Galilaeans, because these things were done to them? Acts 10:34
Luk 13:3 I say to you, It is not so: but if your hearts are not changed, you will all come to the same end.
If you break one than you have broken all ( James 2:10,11).Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen men who were crushed by the fall of the tower of Siloam, were they worse than all the other men living in Jerusalem?(sin, 1 John3:4).
Luk 13:5 I say to you, It is not so: but if your hearts are not changed, you will all come to an end in the same way. Sin is sin, however even though their blood was mixed with sacrificial blood their punishment was no greater. God is no respecter of persons ( Acts 10:34; James 2:9).I would respond this way: I see Lord, blood matters not, they all get their just reward!
That's what those scriptures say to me.
Quote (Eliyah @ Jan. 03 2006,13:23) Folks, the truth of the matter is that satan corrupted himself for he became puffed up with his own beauty, he was created for good, however, he coveted Yah's Power and His Throne, he is also the first sinner / ie- transgressor of Yah's Torah or laws as Messiah and John reveals as does also Peter.
As for every evil or bad things that happens, it is because of time, chance, and happenstance, and as Messiah said, “” IF you all do not REPENT of SIN( ie-of lawlessness 1 John 3:4) you shall all likewise perish.””
Since evil was indirectly created by Yah and against His -Yah's will( as satan becoming corrupted of and by himself ), Yah uses such evil to bring about His own purposes for to create His goodness in the end results for mankind and Himself.
The scriptures do not say that YAH created evil directly or on purpose, however, Yah created evil indirectly since by satan's own corrupted beauty and mind, and since this indirectly evil was created, then Yah uses that indirectly created evil for His own purposes to bring about His own goodness and purpose for the end results for His plans for mankind and Himself.
Eliyah C.
Eliyh,Thanks Eliyh, that's what I was trying to say. I don't have great communication skills.
One time a person ask if God made me. I said NO! God made the machine that made me. That's why we humans are sickly. All along from Adam we have poisened the earth and ourselves. God started with a “perfect” being and a perfect earth. We are the one's that are evil!
Quote Eliyh, Thanks Eliyh, that's what I was trying to say. I don't have great communication skills.
The weird thing is Kenrch, I also agree with Eliyah. Yet, I thought you were saying that God created Satan as Satan, in order to have a chief enemy and that God created Satan as Satan in order for us to be tested. But if you are saying as Eliyah, that Satan corrupted himself and that time, chance and happenstance are the main reason for bad things happening, then what were we disagreeing about?
Quote (david @ Jan. 04 2006,00:24) Quote Eliyh, Thanks Eliyh, that's what I was trying to say. I don't have great communication skills.
The weird thing is Kenrch, I also agree with Eliyah. Yet, I thought you were saying that God created Satan as Satan, in order to have a chief enemy and that God created Satan as Satan in order for us to be tested. But if you are saying as Eliyah, that Satan corrupted himself and that time, chance and happenstance are the main reason for bad things happening, then what were we disagreeing about?
David,Sorry! I'm not a good communicator.
Like I said God didn't make me, directly! 
You both are welcome, I knew that both of you were trying to say to each other practically the same thing, however, there was a communication gap, and thought I would point it out and could close it for both of you as the scriptures are plain on it.
Do you know, that communication is the biggest problem we all have, I use scriptures as should be originally transliterated into English, and that is why people mis-understand me- even many of my scriptural posts too.
HalleluYAH = Praise you Yah!!
Eliyah C.
Absolutely, Yah created us( you and me) in-directly from Adam, however, Yah created Adam directly or pro-directivity, and yes you could say that Yah created that painting in-directly through you.
Another similar anology, is that you and your wife pro-created your children, however, Yah created those children in-directly through you and your wife, however, if your children grow up and one were to do evil things, it could be said that you and your wife pro-created the one that is doing the evil things, however, you and your wife never purposely pro-created that person to do those evil things, but that person corrupted themselves, so you and your wife are not responsible for the person corrupting themselves, however, you and your wife are so said to be idirectly responsible for that person for doing those evil things by pro-creation, but you and your wife did not teach that person directly to do those evil things.
Its the same with Yah as He created satan directly for good, however, satan corrupted himself, though Yah did not create satan on purpose to do evil, but since satan directly corrupted himself, Yah in-directly created the evil, because satan corrupted himself and is evil, so Yah utilizes that in-directed created evil for His purpose and plan for mankind and Himself.
Many people are under the mistake of thinking that Yah directly and on purpose created evil, however, Yah in-directly created evil, by satan corrupting himself to do evil, but not on purpose to harm man, however, Yah will allow satan to harm man for Yah's on purpose for the good of that man, and an example of that is Job, for Job sin was selfrighteousness.
Eliyah C.
I came to thee above realization the hard way when I blamed the Creator for the death of my first born son almost 25 years ago when I was young and foolish, and I related the true happening to me under the TOPIC TO T8 the Administrator concerning this.
Eliyah C.
God created evil. (Isaiah 45:6-9).
God created satan. (Isaiah 54:16)
All is of God. (Ro.11:36)
God alone is creator. Can anything exist that God hasn't created? Or is there another power that can create?
Blessings.
I've thought about this today.
God may have “created” evil, however, I don't believe he “allows” evil purposely into individuals lives. I think we invite evil in and then it has it's way. In other words, God does not “will” that people suffer at the hand of certain evils. To say that God would will someone to be raped, for instance, is a pill I'm not willing to swallow.
Hi Not3in1.
I sympathize with you, and agree that to be raped is hard to understand if it is Gods will. But I think of God, whose will it was that His only begotten Son, would die a painfull, humiliating death, scourged with a whip containing pieces of bone, that tore His flesh with every stroke, then, though almost dead, was nailed though His hands and feet to a wooden cross, and hung there for many painfilled hours, before finally dying, so that He would be the sacrifice for the justifying of mankind, so we may be saved. Can we compare His agony to anything one should go through? I don't wish to trivilize anything you or anyone else went though, but “Gods ways are not our ways”. God will wipe away any tears, and will make all things right. I don't know how He will do it, I know all will be bliss at the “Consummation”, when God will be “All in all”.Blessings.
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.
Quote (chosenone @ May 22 2007,07:30) 1 Samual 16:14…and an evil spirit from Yahweh frightened Him (Saul). Blessings.
Hi Chosenone:My understanding about Saul in this case is that he was being punished because of disobedience, and also, many times God allowed Israel's enemies to overtake them because of disobedience. His purpose in allowing this is that the disobedient will repent so that he can save them from destruction.
Also, men have a “free will” and some times evil men do evil things like crucify the Lord, and God allowed this so that the most wicked individual including those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him could be forgiven by coming to God with a repentant heart through him.
Also, some of us will be martyrs in the same way as our Lord Jesus. God's purpose with whatever he allows in this world is with the intent that man will repent and be reconciled to him so that he will not have to destroy them.
But I don't believe that it is right to say that it is his will that some one be raped or murdered. Abosolutely not!
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