Every Knee Shall Bow And Confess to God!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“First of all if you think that to be One with God is to share in the same Unity/Oneness that the Word/God who was with God and was God shared, you are way off base.”

Jn 17 seems to diasagree with you.

” 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even AS we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. “

Do you agree with Jesus?

You can't because of your perverted way of understanding unity-you think it means they have always been one and the same- not so.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi WJ, Regarding my statements which you say are disingenuous, I stand by them:   1.  That is to say that, God is not a Trinity.  Any doctrine that presents him as such is intentionally or unintentionally false.  This is not about getting a name wrong, such as Yeshua/Yahshua vs. Jesus  etc.  It is actually about the whole identity and being of a person. We say Jesus when we should perhaps say the actual Hebrew name of Jesus, the Son of God.  Given evidence of the real name, we should start using that, IMO.  However, imagine now if we go and invent another creature altogether to be the son of God:  I saw glimpses of an article on the internet yesterday which claimed that they had found the casket and I suppose the bones of Jesus… and there was something else being said about this Jesus having a son!  Obviously, as far as I am concerned (and my faith matters only to God in the end), they've got the wrong guy (Jesus)!  Same name or not.  As far as we know, our Jesus rose again on the third day and never sired any child. The experts who put the info together may be knowingly or unknowingly wrong, but wrong all the same as far as scripture is concerned. So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe. 2.  Are we not called to stand in the GAP (Ezekiel) —  Which literally is an Acronym for GO AND PRAY anyway.   3.  To further respond to your accusation as to my integrity would detract further from the topic so here, I offer the other cheek.   Did you ever wonder that we only have two cheeks?  What happens when both of them get smacked?  Just a little humor there.  Hope to get back to the rest of your post in a few.

NH

Cubes

You say…

Quote

So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe.

If you want to accuse me of being a Modelist, that is your prerogative. For the record I am not a Modelist.

Now since you insist on misrepresentation of my view, then I will turn the other cheek and not continue dialogue with you. For there is no bases for this discussion.

I do not misrepresent you and would have hoped you wouldnt do that to me.

I respect your opinion and hope you respect mine.

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You are entitled to your opinion but should you teach opinions that do not align with scripture you can expect a response.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi WJ, Regarding my statements which you say are disingenuous, I stand by them:   1.  That is to say that, God is not a Trinity.  Any doctrine that presents him as such is intentionally or unintentionally false.  This is not about getting a name wrong, such as Yeshua/Yahshua vs. Jesus  etc.  It is actually about the whole identity and being of a person. We say Jesus when we should perhaps say the actual Hebrew name of Jesus, the Son of God.  Given evidence of the real name, we should start using that, IMO.  However, imagine now if we go and invent another creature altogether to be the son of God:  I saw glimpses of an article on the internet yesterday which claimed that they had found the casket and I suppose the bones of Jesus… and there was something else being said about this Jesus having a son!  Obviously, as far as I am concerned (and my faith matters only to God in the end), they've got the wrong guy (Jesus)!  Same name or not.  As far as we know, our Jesus rose again on the third day and never sired any child. The experts who put the info together may be knowingly or unknowingly wrong, but wrong all the same as far as scripture is concerned. So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe. 2.  Are we not called to stand in the GAP (Ezekiel) —  Which literally is an Acronym for GO AND PRAY anyway.   3.  To further respond to your accusation as to my integrity would detract further from the topic so here, I offer the other cheek.   Did you ever wonder that we only have two cheeks?  What happens when both of them get smacked?  Just a little humor there.  Hope to get back to the rest of your post in a few.

NH

Cubes

You say…

Quote

So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe.

If you want to accuse me of being a Modelist, that is your prerogative. For the record I am not a Modelist.

Now since you insist on misrepresentation of my view, then I will turn the other cheek and not continue dialogue with you. For there is no bases for this discussion.

I do not misrepresent you and would have hoped you wouldnt do that to me.

I respect your opinion and hope you respect mine.

BTW. There are tons of Scripture that prove Jesus is God(YHWH), One with the Father and the Spirit!

Blessings

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, You are entitled to your opinion but should you teach opinions that do not align with scripture you can expect a response.

NH

That is your opinion!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
We would love to hear you speaking from your own learning and not just the teachings of other men with their standard doctrinal defences. You will meet the author of truth someday and truth will matter.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,21:29)

Hi W, You say “First of all if you think that to be One with God is to share in the same Unity/Oneness that the Word/God who was with God and was God shared, you are way off base.” Jn 17 seems to diasagree with you. ” 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even AS we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. “ Do you agree with Jesus? You can't because of your perverted way of understanding unity-you think it means they have always been one and the same- not so.

NH

I will present the same questions to you!

What kind of Oneness do you speak of? This kind of Oneness?

“If you have seen me you have seen the Father”

“For as the Father has life in himself; so hath he given the Son to have life in himself;”

“Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father”

“I am the way the truth and the life”

“I am the ressurection and the life”

First of all if you think that to be One with God is to share in the same Unity/Oneness that the Word/God who was with God and was God shared, you are way off base.

Does our unity with Jesus who is the the Lord from heaven mean that we should be called Lords?

Does our unity with the Father and Son mean that we are Deity?

Will you make yourself as a Son of God equal to the Monogenes (Unique Son)?

Yes we share in his divine nature but we are not divinity!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Surely you know that scripture says that
God WAS IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself. [2cor 5]
God was not AS Christ but IN CHRIST.

So in what way is it surprising that the Son revealed the Father living within him?

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You ask
“Does our unity with Jesus who is the the Lord from heaven mean that we should be called Lords?”

What do lords do?
Do they have authority like kings?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Lk 19
15`And it came to pass, on his coming back, having taken the kingdom, that he commanded these servants to be called to him, to whom he gave the money, that he might know what any one had done in business.

16`And the first came near, saying, Sir, thy pound did gain ten pounds;

17and he said to him, Well done, good servant, because in a very little thou didst become faithful, be having authority over ten cities.

18`And the second came, saying, Sir, thy pound made five pounds;

19and he said also to this one, And thou, become thou over five cities.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2007,22:06)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,21:29) Hi W, You say “First of all if you think that to be One with God is to share in the same Unity/Oneness that the Word/God who was with God and was God shared, you are way off base.” Jn 17 seems to diasagree with you. ” 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even AS we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. “ Do you agree with Jesus? You can't because of your perverted way of understanding unity-you think it means they have always been one and the same- not so. NH I will present the same questions to you! What kind of Oneness do you speak of? This kind of Oneness? “If you have seen me you have seen the Father” “For as the Father has life in himself; so hath he given the Son to have life in himself;” “Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father” “I am the way the truth and the life” “I am the ressurection and the life” First of all if you think that to be One with God is to share in the same Unity/Oneness that the Word/God who was with God and was God shared, you are way off base. Does our unity with Jesus who is the the Lord from heaven mean that we should be called Lords? Does our unity with the Father and Son mean that we are Deity? Will you make yourself as a Son of God equal to the Monogenes (Unique Son)? Yes we share in his divine nature but we are not divinity!

Hi W,
ONENESS is another false doctrine.
Unity is what Christ spoke of, submitted, trusting unity in God ,the Father.
We should follow him.
We cannot follow God.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2007,11:36)

Cubes. I don’t have time nor do I care to have dialogue with this kind of practice. Again if you want to have honest and intelligent debate then lets stay away from this kind of tactics. To me it shows weakness on the part of those trying to ad validity to their on view by defaming or misrepresenting the other side. This is the stuff that politicians do all the time. I have not misrepresented your views or “stereotyped” you that I know of. If I have than tell me and I wont do it again. I hope you understand!

Hi WJ,

I overlooked this aspect of your post.  

You speak of tactics that defame and misrepresent…
I don't get this.  Does trinity mean three distinct persons in one being or does it not?  If it does, then it pains me to say that I have neither defamed nor misrepresented this false doctrine.  I might hope to have shown some of the implications of such a contrary gospel to what was handed down to us by the prophets of God, Christ and his apostles.

How have I stereotyped the Trinity or Trinitarians?

In kind, if you show me where and how I've stereotyped you, I am amenable to rectifying any such misrepresentation or stereotyping, if an apology and retraction suffices.

However, if one believes that Jesus Christ comprises as part of or all of the BEING of the Eternal God then scripture proves this to be false.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
We cannot share in the body of Christ if the head of that body is God and we are just men.
He must be like to us and we must be like to him if we are to form a real spiritual and united body with him.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 28 2007,02:29)

Quote Hi WJ, Regarding my statements which you say are disingenuous, I stand by them:   1.  That is to say that, God is not a Trinity.  Any doctrine that presents him as such is intentionally or unintentionally false.  This is not about getting a name wrong, such as Yeshua/Yahshua vs. Jesus  etc.  It is actually about the whole identity and being of a person. We say Jesus when we should perhaps say the actual Hebrew name of Jesus, the Son of God.  Given evidence of the real name, we should start using that, IMO.  However, imagine now if we go and invent another creature altogether to be the son of God:  I saw glimpses of an article on the internet yesterday which claimed that they had found the casket and I suppose the bones of Jesus… and there was something else being said about this Jesus having a son!  Obviously, as far as I am concerned (and my faith matters only to God in the end), they've got the wrong guy (Jesus)!  Same name or not.  As far as we know, our Jesus rose again on the third day and never sired any child. The experts who put the info together may be knowingly or unknowingly wrong, but wrong all the same as far as scripture is concerned. So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe. 2.  Are we not called to stand in the GAP (Ezekiel) —  Which literally is an Acronym for GO AND PRAY anyway.   3.  To further respond to your accusation as to my integrity would detract further from the topic so here, I offer the other cheek.   Did you ever wonder that we only have two cheeks?  What happens when both of them get smacked?  Just a little humor there.  Hope to get back to the rest of your post in a few. NH Cubes You say… Quote So when you come back and knowingly or or unknowingly tell me that our one Father YHWH is a Trinity, or that his son is a Trinity, etc, as far as scripture is concerned, you are wrong.  Now the burden of proof is on me and those of us who preach that God is not a trinity, and I believe that God has allowed us to show that, given the enormous data in just about every verse of scripture.  It's up to those who hear the Lord to heed his voice believe. If you want to accuse me of being a Modelist, that is your prerogative. For the record I am not a Modelist. Now since you insist on misrepresentation of my view, then I will turn the other cheek and not continue dialogue with you. For there is no bases for this discussion. I do not misrepresent you and would have hoped you wouldnt do that to me. I respect your opinion and hope you respect mine. Blessings

Hey WJ,

Now perhaps we have a misunderstanding here:

What is needed is clarification, not clamming up. I would not knowingly misrepresent you… and unfortunately, I have not yet caught up to what's been posted so far in the thread since our last exchange some days ago. I plan to do so tonight.

But let's get back to this modalism that you speak of:

From what I understand:

Classical Trinitarianism states that there are three different or distinct persons with equal billing known as GOD.

Modalists feel that there is only one person who makes up the being of God. However this same person is the Father of old, became the Son born of Mary who ascended back into heaven and is now with us as the holy spirit.

Did I miss anything?

They are two sides of the same coin to be stayed away from.

Modalists ironically disagree with classical Trinitarians and vice versa so I can see how you would be offended if you thought I considered you a modalist. Which I have and have not. It's a predicament because of the fact that when you truly consider it, you'll see that it cannot be helped that they are the same, to the extent that everyone is homogenous even in the TRINITY in that very thing where they may be truly distinct! That thing being WHO truly is The God of all. To the degree that Trinitarians cannot answer this question to be the Father, they too are modalists of a different design.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2007,11:36)

Hi Cubes You say… Quote It is good to see you back. I am sorry you feel that I am being disingenuous here.  I can only try and assure you that I am not. I am responding generally to your posts as I haven't had a chance to read them all in detail at this time.  Hope to respond to other things later as I am able. Good to be back. Thanks! Ok. Let me try again. These are your statements in your post… Quote After all as you say, he is a mystery and the gropings in the darkness by Trinitarians have found him to be a “Trinity,” Big difference between the Father and a Trinity, between the son and a Trinity.  Still, as Paul loved those greeks and wanted to impart the truth to them so that they too may grow even closer to God through his beloved son, we do the same with all prayers to God to that end “found him to be a trinity”, “the Father and a trinity”, “the Son and a trinity”. Total misrepresentation and misquotes. You then go on to condescend to Trinitarians making them like the Greeks who worshipped false Gods and groped in darkness. Disingenuous? Absolutely! Cubes. I don’t have time nor do I care to have dialogue with this kind of practice. Again if you want to have honest and intelligent debate then lets stay away from this kind of tactics. To me it shows weakness on the part of those trying to ad validity to their on view by defaming or misrepresenting the other side. This is the stuff that politicians do all the time. I have not misrepresented your views or “stereotyped” you that I know of. If I have than tell me and I wont do it again. I hope you understand! I said… Quote Other than the title Father, What Name or Attribute or Appellation of God in scripture cannot be ascribed or is not ascribed to Jesus? Just give me one. You said… Quote For starters, how about THE GOD [and Father] OF JESUS CHRIST? And The HIGHEST? The God 1 Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. The Highest Daniel 7:9-27 9I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. 13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. 15I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. 19Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the ; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Compare with… Revelation 19 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And… Jude 1 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints You say… It would also be interesting to see which titles are shared by men? e.g. king, lord, savior, light of the world Also which titles are NOT shared by GOD ALMIGHTY, in as much as they ensue from him?  e.g. Son of Man!

Hi WJ,

Actually, it is you who misrepresent my quote here:

I didn't mean “The GOD” per se, where there might be any confusion.

To be exact, my response was, “THE GOD [and Father] OF JESUS CHRIST.”

Whatever Gods there may be, there is only one God who is known as the God and Father of Christ Jesus.  It could well not be Jesus himself, could it?  Well, The God and Father of Jesus Christ, He IS The Most High GOD.

You say:  

Quote

True, But would it change the fact that other than Father no other being in the Universe is ascribed such Magnificence, Grandeur, Glory, and Beauty, Power, Etc., Etc., Etc.

I was about to agree with you but realized that he is NOT ascribed the same majesty as the Father (if that is what you meant), any more than he who the Father chooses to sit at the right hand of Jesus would be ascribed the same majesty as our Lord Jesus.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,22:11)

Hi W, Surely you know that scripture says that God WAS IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself. [2cor 5] God was not AS Christ but IN CHRIST. So in what way is it surprising that the Son revealed the Father living within him?

NH

That is correct NH. But you must interpret scripture with scrpture.

The Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father.

Jn 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jn 10:30
I and my Father are one.

Now if Jesus was born like you and I, then I would agree that the above scriptures mean oneness like you and I have with him now.

However when we hear Jesus say…

Jn 14:
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father/God also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. (Can any born again Son of God say this of himself?)

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father/God, and it sufficeth us.

Do you think that Philip was asking Jesus to show him someone else besides God? Philip had heard of the Father for almost three years. He had heard Jesus say that he had seen God. Philips question was show us God. Jesus answer was “Ye should have known me” And from now on you no him and have seen him. (God in the flesh)

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father/God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father/God?

Can you or any Son of God you know NH make such a claim?

I Tim 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Was the Father justified in the Spirit?

Did the Father preach to the Gentiles?

Was the Father believed on in the World?

Was the Father recieved up into Glory?

Did Paul make a mistake when he said he was manifested in the Flesh?

I think he and John must have discussed this.

Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Tell me NH. What kind of being would it take for the universe to be made by him?

How about…

1 Cor 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Selah

[charity]

The Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father.

He is the seed of his father David; Davids seed is in him

God shall give him his fathers throne

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

His throne is his fathers throne David; if you can see his father now you will know him.

Jn 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very

charity

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 28 2007,18:24)

Hi WJ, Actually, it is you who misrepresent my quote here: I didn't mean “The GOD” per se, where there might be any confusion. To be exact, my response was, “THE GOD [and Father] OF JESUS CHRIST.” Whatever Gods there may be, there is only one God who is known as the God and Father of Christ Jesus. It could well not be Jesus himself, could it? Well, The God and Father of Jesus Christ, He IS The Most High GOD. You say: Quote True, But would it change the fact that other than Father no other being in the Universe is ascribed such Magnificence, Grandeur, Glory, and Beauty, Power, Etc., Etc., Etc. I was about to agree with you but realized that he is NOT ascribed the same majesty as the Father (if that is what you meant), any more than he who the Father chooses to sit at the right hand of Jesus would be ascribed the same majesty as our Lord Jesus.

Amen Cubes.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 27 2007,22:25)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2007,11:36) Cubes. I don’t have time nor do I care to have dialogue with this kind of practice. Again if you want to have honest and intelligent debate then lets stay away from this kind of tactics. To me it shows weakness on the part of those trying to ad validity to their on view by defaming or misrepresenting the other side. This is the stuff that politicians do all the time. I have not misrepresented your views or “stereotyped” you that I know of. If I have than tell me and I wont do it again. I hope you understand! Hi WJ, I overlooked this aspect of your post.   You speak of tactics that defame and misrepresent… I don't get this.  Does trinity mean three distinct persons in one being or does it not?  If it does, then it pains me to say that I have neither defamed nor misrepresented this false doctrine.  I might hope to have shown some of the implications of such a contrary gospel to what was handed down to us by the prophets of God, Christ and his apostles. How have I stereotyped the Trinity or Trinitarians? In kind, if you show me where and how I've stereotyped you, I am amenable to rectifying any such misrepresentation or stereotyping, if an apology and retraction suffices. However, if one believes that Jesus Christ comprises as part of or all of the BEING of the Eternal God then scripture proves this to be false.

Cubes

My response was to the following…

Quote

After all as you say, he is a mystery and the gropings in the darkness by Trinitarians have found him to be a “Trinity,” Big difference between the Father and a Trinity, between the son and a Trinity.  Still, as Paul loved those greeks and wanted to impart the truth to them so that they too may grow even closer to God through his beloved son, we do the same with all prayers to God to that end

First of all I am not groping in darkness. Jesus is my Lord and my Saviour.

You make a broad statement concerning all Trinitarians which is wrong.

I could spend a lot of time on this forum accusing the followers of Arian for heresy or condescending on their relationship (or lack of) with God.

Its okay to point out error. But stick with the scriptures.

I try to engage in honest debate without all the name calling or misreprestation or attacking the charactor of the one I am having dialogue with.

Accusations of not knowing Jesus or being saved or not having the light of God in them in my oppinion should not come out of the mouths of brothers and sisters in Christ.

We are not to judge these matters.

Stick with scriptures and an honest representation of the other side and you have a productive dialogue.

Its always “Come out of her” when there is nothing else to say.

I am not even sure that they know what her is or if they can prove it from scripture.

“Or God aint no trinity.”

Prove it.

By using the same scriptures that we use to say that God is three in one

Cubes look at my post and you see I show a lot of scripture!

Isnt that the Idea?

So why dont those on this forum give me a different meaning of those scriptures instead of just spouting out “you are wrong” “You are decieved” ” You follow Constantine”.

Just MHO.  

[charity]

Hi WorshippingJesus

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

It would be good and powerful to have a Son of God raised in power to eplain these things to us that we could without dout receive the knowledge with joy?

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“Accusations of not knowing Jesus or being saved or not having the light of God in them in my oppinion should not come out of the mouths of brothers and sisters in Christ.”

Then no one should ever preach lest they preach to the converted?

God gives his people discernment to know who are His.
When they teach what His son teaches it is a good sign.
His son never taught about a trinity so you speak as a stranger much in need of hearing the truth.

“”Or God aint no trinity.”

Prove it. “

No w it is up to you to prove, that what you do NOT teach from the wisdom of God, is truth.
It will be difficult.

[Author]

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