Eusebius the preterist

[KangarooJack]

TO ALL:

Mikeboll has repeatedly said that Eusebius was a “good teacher.” But Eusebius himself was a Preterist and Mike dismisses the Preterist view. Preterism is the view that ALL biblical prophecy has been fulfilled in the second coming of Christ in ad70.

I waited until my debate with Mike was over to post this because I said that I would not be posting the church fathers or the creeds in our debate. If Eusebius was a “good teacher” as Mike says, then he should not just dismiss Preterism should he? And if Mike dismisses a teaching of Eusebius in one area, then he cannot continue to beat us over the head with Eusebius in other matters. And beating us over the head he has.

The documentation below is about Eusebius the Preterist. But a side note please see the first sentence of the box quote below inwhich Eusebius refers to the Word (Jesus) as “God.” Eusebius was a “good teacher” right Mikey?

Quote

“But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as THE WORD or GOD, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us. For He named the whole Jewish people, the children of the City; and the Temple, He styled their House. And thus He testified, that they should, on their own wicked account, bear the vengeance thus to be inflicted. And, it is right we should wonder at the fulfilment of this prediction, since at no time did this place undergo such an entire desolation as this was.  He pointed out moreover, the cause of their desolation when He said, “If thou hadst known, even in this day, the things of thy peace:” intimating too His own coming, which should be for the peace of the whole world. But, when ye shall see it reduced by armies, know ye that which comes upon it, to be a final and full desolation and destruction. He designates the desolation of Jerusalem, by the destruction of the Temple, and the laying aside of those services which were, according to the law of Moses, formerly performed within it. The manner moreover of the captivity, points out the war. of which He spoke; “For (said He) there shall be (great) tribulation upon the land, and great wrath upon this people : and they shall fall by the edge of the sword.” We can learn too, from the writings of Flavius Josephus, how these things took place in their localities, and how those, which had been foretold by our Saviour, were, in fact, fulfilled. On this account He said, “Let those who are in its borders not enter into it, since these are the days of vengeance, that all may be fulfilled which has been written.” Any one therefore, who desires it, may learn the results of these things from the writings of Josephus. “Since, then, it is evident that our Saviour was anointed uniquely beyond all that ever were with the excellent spiritual, or rather divine unction, He is rightly called “Holy of holies,” as one might say, “High Priest of high priests,” and “Sanctified of the sanctified” according to the oracle of Gabriel.” “And from that time a succession of all kinds of troubles afflicted the whole nation and their city until the last war against them, and the final siege, in which destruction rushed on them like a flood [Dan. 9:26] with all kinds of misery of famine [Matt. 24:7], plague [Luke 21:21] and sword [Luke 21:24], and all who had conspired against the Saviour in their youth were cut off; then, too, the abomination of desolation stood in the Temple [Matt. 24:15], and it has remained there even till to-day, while they have daily reached deeper depths of desolation.” (The Proof of the Gospel, trans. W. J. Ferrar, 2 vols. in 1 (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1981), 2:138, (403: b-c).) “The Holy Scriptures foretell that there will be unmistakable signs of the Coming of Christ. Now there were among the Hebrews three outstanding offices of dignity, which made the nation famous, firstly the kingship, secondly that of prophet, and lastly the high priesthood. The prophecies said that the abolition and complete destruction of all these three together would be the sign of the presence of the Christ. And that the proofs that the times had come, would lie in the ceasing of the Mosaic worship, the desolation of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the subjection of the whole Jewish race to its enemies…The holy oracles foretold that all these changes, which had not been made in the days of the prophets of old, would take place at the coming of the Christ, which I will presently shew to have been fulfilled as never before in accordance with the predictions.” (Demonstratio Evangelica VIII) You have then in this prophecy of the Descent of the Lord among men from heaven, many other things foretold at the same time, the rejection of the Jews, the judgment on their impiety, the destruction of their royal city, the abolition of the worship practised by them of old according to the Law of Moses; and on the other hand, promises of good for the nations, the knowledge of God, a new ideal of holiness, a new law and teaching coming forth from the land of the Jews. I leave you to see, how wonderful a fulfilment, how wonderful a completion, the prophecy has reached after the Coming of our Saviour Jesus Christ.” (Demonstratio Evangelica; Book VI – Chapter 13) “I have already considered this prophecy among the passages. And I have pointed out that only from the date of our Saviour Jesus Christ's Coming among men have the objects of Jewish reverence, the hill called Zion and Jerusalem, the buildings there, that is to say, the Temple, the Holy of Holies, the Altar, and whatever else was there dedicated to the glory of God, been utterly removed or shaken, in fulfilment of the Word which said: “Behold the Lord, the Lord comes forth from his place, and he shall descend on the high places of the earth, and the mountains shall be shaken under him.” (Demonstratio Evangelica ; Book VIII – Chapter 3) “When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the Christ of God, HAS COME, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated TO HAVE BEEN CLEARLY FULFILLED.” (Demonstratio Evangelica; Book VIII)

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/e/eusebius.html

Eusebius said that the Christ of God “HAS COME” and that he (Eusebius) has shown that the signs of Christ's coming “have CLEARLY been fulfilled.”

Eusebius was a “good teacher” right Mike?

I have more to come on Eusebius the Preterist. This is enough for now so Mike can regroup and decide how he is going to continue to beat us over the head that Eusebius was a “good teacher” and yet reject his Preterist teachings.

the Roo

[KangarooJack]

Bump for Mikeboll

the Roo

[KangarooJack]

Mikeboll said:

Quote

I cite the fathers only to counter your understanding of scripture itself.

Boom! This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Thanks for proving my point Mike! You are saying that if I don't believe the church fathers then I don't believe the scriptures. I have suffered this form of persecution as a Preterist.

TO ALL:

Mike and Kathi are twisting tne words of the fathers to mean what they mean and then saying, “If you don't believe the fathers then you don't understand the scriptures.”  If you don't agree with the church fathers as they understand them then you don't believe the scripture. Mike said so. This is fearmongering. I have suffered this form of persecution for several years as a Preterist and so I know what fearmongering looks like and Mike just validated my complaint.

Mike:

Now go to the “Eusebius the Preterist” thread I started. Eusebius taught the Preterist view of prophecy and of Christ's second coming. You reject Preterism Mike. Therefore, you must mot believe the scriptures Mike!

Thanks again for proving my complaint Mike!

Roo

[davidbfun]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 18 2010,19:11)

Mikeboll said: Quote I cite the fathers only to counter your understanding of scripture itself. Boom! This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Thanks for proving my point Mike! You are saying that if I don't believe the church fathers then I don't believe the scriptures. I have suffered this form of persecution as a Preterist. TO ALL: Mike and Kathi are twisting tne words of the fathers to mean what they mean and then saying, “If you don't believe the fathers then you don't understand the scriptures.”  If you don't agree with the church fathers as they understand them then you don't believe the scripture. Mike said so. This is fearmongering. I have suffered this form of persecution for several years as a Preterist and so I know what fearmongering looks like and Mike just validated my complaint. Mike: Now go to the “Eusebius the Preterist” thread I started. Eusebius taught the Preterist view of prophecy and of Christ's second coming. You reject Preterism Mike. Therefore, you must mot believe the scriptures Mike! Thanks again for proving my complaint Mike! Roo

Hello Roo,

And shouldn't this post be in “Other Writings”?

There seems to be too much “Church Fathers” creeping out of “Other Writings” and into biblical topics….no?

The professor

[KangarooJack]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 18 2010,11:57)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 18 2010,19:11) Mikeboll said: Quote I cite the fathers only to counter your understanding of scripture itself. Boom! This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Thanks for proving my point Mike! You are saying that if I don't believe the church fathers then I don't believe the scriptures. I have suffered this form of persecution as a Preterist. TO ALL: Mike and Kathi are twisting tne words of the fathers to mean what they mean and then saying, “If you don't believe the fathers then you don't understand the scriptures.”  If you don't agree with the church fathers as they understand them then you don't believe the scripture. Mike said so. This is fearmongering. I have suffered this form of persecution for several years as a Preterist and so I know what fearmongering looks like and Mike just validated my complaint. Mike: Now go to the “Eusebius the Preterist” thread I started. Eusebius taught the Preterist view of prophecy and of Christ's second coming. You reject Preterism Mike. Therefore, you must mot believe the scriptures Mike! Thanks again for proving my complaint Mike! Roo Hello Roo, And shouldn't this post be in “Other Writings”? There seems to be too much “Church Fathers” creeping out of “Other Writings” and into biblical topics….no? The professor

dbf,

Good point but it can be here also in the “Truth or Tradition” forum. Since Preterism challenges tradition it is therefore appropriate here.

Roo

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