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Georg,
Quote When God gives you understanding, you don't need the “other” translations. I know Jesus is “a god”, a mighty one; the “only begotten” of the Father. Is it not true that you have problem with that word, “begotten”? Georg
Sometimes we think that God gave us understanding but really it is only a step in the right direction and we need to continue to be open to the rest of the story. Why would you say that I have a problem with the word 'begotten?' I take it literally haven't you been reading the 'begotten' topics? I do know that a begotten son of God would not be a created son but one from God's own eternal essence and that would make Him perfect except He would be perfect as Son, not perfect as Father although He is considered a Father to us as He gives us everlasting life.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,16:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding?
touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Pierre,
It is not what goes in a mouth that defiles a man it is what comes out in their posts. Think about it. Why do you write such things that insinuate we don't use scriptures. You do know what scriptures are, don't you?Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,22:35) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,16:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Pierre,
It is not what goes in a mouth that defiles a man it is what comes out in their posts. Think about it. Why do you write such things that insinuate we don't use scriptures. You do know what scriptures are, don't you?
Kathicreated,begotten,bring forth,made;
do those words all of them gived us Christ the son of God??
and because of it he could put down the required sacrifice??Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,02:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
I like your characters.Georg
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,15:27) Georg, Quote When God gives you understanding, you don't need the “other” translations. I know Jesus is “a god”, a mighty one; the “only begotten” of the Father. Is it not true that you have problem with that word, “begotten”? Georg
Sometimes we think that God gave us understanding but really it is only a step in the right direction and we need to continue to be open to the rest of the story. Why would you say that I have a problem with the word 'begotten?' I take it literally haven't you been reading the 'begotten' topics? I do know that a begotten son of God would not be a created son but one from God's own eternal essence and that would make Him perfect except He would be perfect as Son, not perfect as Father although He is considered a Father to us as He gives us everlasting life.
I let the bible speak for me.Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the “””creation””” of God.
Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2010,08:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..I don't know all that much when you consider the wealth of knowledge that abounds in this forum…what makes it interesting is when there is an exchange of beliefs and an inteligent discourse insues,at all times it is expected that one who demonstrates his or her level of understanding and beliefs would afford the other the same courtesy, this is a demonstration of a certain debating skill that allows the debate to go on in a atmosphere of civility… You bring some valid issues to fore if there was a little more conviction based on understanding you could present a very persuasive argument and maybe change minds..Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 06 2010,05:45) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2010,08:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Greetings Pierre…..I don't know all that much when you consider the wealth of knowledge that abounds in this forum…what makes it interesting is when there is an exchange of beliefs and an inteligent discourse insues,at all times it is expected that one who demonstrates his or her level of understanding and beliefs would afford the other the same courtesy, this is a demonstration of a certain debating skill that allows the debate to go on in a atmosphere of civility… You bring some valid issues to fore if there was a little more conviction based on understanding you could present a very persuasive argument and maybe change minds..
hi
Theoyou are right absolutely,i always give the credit of the doubt to anyone,
after that we built ,and so on ,scriptures being our rule,right??
so wen comments are made after we have seen things ,that know break the word of God ,this is or should not be tolerate without a respond,
but the opponent can always respond with scriptures,if there are some that defend his or her theory,right??
(you should look at this topic from the start)
PierreQuote (Baker @ Dec. 04 2010,05:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,15:27) Georg, Quote When God gives you understanding, you don't need the “other” translations. I know Jesus is “a god”, a mighty one; the “only begotten” of the Father. Is it not true that you have problem with that word, “begotten”? Georg
Sometimes we think that God gave us understanding but really it is only a step in the right direction and we need to continue to be open to the rest of the story. Why would you say that I have a problem with the word 'begotten?' I take it literally haven't you been reading the 'begotten' topics? I do know that a begotten son of God would not be a created son but one from God's own eternal essence and that would make Him perfect except He would be perfect as Son, not perfect as Father although He is considered a Father to us as He gives us everlasting life.
I let the bible speak for me.Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the “””creation””” of God.
Georg
Hi Georg,
I think that you let some translators speak for you and they are men like you.New International Version (©1984)
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2010,01:16) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,22:35) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,16:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Pierre,
It is not what goes in a mouth that defiles a man it is what comes out in their posts. Think about it. Why do you write such things that insinuate we don't use scriptures. You do know what scriptures are, don't you?
Kathicreated,begotten,bring forth,made;
do those words all of them gived us Christ the son of God??
and because of it he could put down the required sacrifice??Pierre
Pierre,
The Son being a literal Son and so begotten, not created, makes Him that much more of a sacrifice. Many created sons have given their life for God, think about the martyrs, they did not redeem anyone. Only one Son was able to give His life for God and redeem all mankind.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,19:27) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2010,01:16) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,22:35) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,16:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2010,09:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,23:15) Hi Georg, Quote You should pay more attention to what God says in his word, and less attention to what “man” says; understanding comes from God, not from man.
…Also, aren't you a man and you are trying to give me understanding? touché WJ
WJ and Kathiyou guys do not need anyone understanding ,you are well established in your own,no scriptures needed.words yes;
the only direction you know is your own,we all know that much.
Pierre
Pierre,
It is not what goes in a mouth that defiles a man it is what comes out in their posts. Think about it. Why do you write such things that insinuate we don't use scriptures. You do know what scriptures are, don't you?
Kathicreated,begotten,bring forth,made;
do those words all of them gived us Christ the son of God??
and because of it he could put down the required sacrifice??Pierre
Pierre,
The Son being a literal Son and so begotten, not created, makes Him that much more of a sacrifice. Many created sons have given their life for God, think about the martyrs, they did not redeem anyone. Only one Son was able to give His life for God and redeem all mankind.
Kathiif you like the word Begotten so be it ,I have no quarrel with it scriptures seems to agree with it,
but the out comes of what Christ is all about does not change,the rule is LOVE,do you understand the love of God ,the only rule???
Pierre
That is great Pierre that you can see that 'begotten' is scriptural.
You asked if I understand the love of God. I am sure that it is much greater than anything I can imagine.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,00:57) Kathi sorry I have just seen your answer on what God rule and nature is;Hi Georg,
Like I said to Pierre, love is a fruit of the divine nature, not the nature itself.SO THE LOVE OF GOD IS A FRUIT OF WHAT???
YOU SAY “OF THE DIVINE NATURE” BUT KATHI ,GOD IS LOVE;WERE DO YOU GET ALL THOSE IDEAS???scriptures do not say that God has LOVE but is LOVE.SO COULD EXPLAIN IT PLEASE???
think on those scriptures;Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
Ro 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Ro 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
1Co 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth1Co 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him
2Co 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with youto grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
Eph 3:19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God2Jn 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life1Jn 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.Pierre
Pierre
God is love Pierre, true. God is also Light. God is also truth. God IS many wonderful things but you can't just pick one and call it His nature. God is self-existent and self-sufficient too and that is significant. All those things are significant attributes of God.Quote (Baker @ Dec. 03 2010,07:07) Kathi! The nature of God, what is He? 
Is He not divine? Is He not immortal?? He is Spirit and always was Spirit. Since He is divine He could never come and die for us. While even tho Jesus was a Spirit being, He was not divine. But now He is… Jehovah God is Love, Love is an essence like Hope. Peace etc. When I say I love you, what is that. That is not my nature!!!!! My nature is Human…Peace Irene
Irene,
The Son was and is divine. His flesh died, not His divinity.You can love others but the Bible calls that one of the FRUITS of the Spirit of God, not the essence of God.
Galatians 5:22-23 NIV
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Hi Ted,
Quote Greetings Kathi…… Your question is an age old one that I can only answer with, as of now, Iam not sure to what extent we will share,but ,Iam sure that that threre is only one as the eternal….I would think that there is nothing greater than Love and to have a nature that is Love would be the sum total of what you have described as the gifts of the spirit…(Whose spirit?)….The angels are spirit which describes their state of existance not the power and authority they may or may not have….Surely Michael and Gabrial are spirit beings with much more authority than the minions of other angels over which they preside…. God is light, God is love, God is eternal, God is almighty. The fruit of the Spirit can be shared with believers but there are aspects of God's nature that He can not share with believers, i.e. self-existence for example. So to limit God's nature to 'love' seems less encompassing than summing up His nature as divine, imo. Divine nature would include 'love' and self-existence for example but a 'love' nature wouldn't have to include self-existence.
You say that there is one as the eternal. I would say that there is one essence that is eternal and both the Father and the Son contain it as I understand it. The Father always had the Son, or the potential Son within Him and at the right time, that Son was begotten as a person that had a mind/spirit/soul of His own, a perfect mind/spirit/soul like the Father's. Perfect begat perfect, not less than perfect.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,19:53) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,00:57) Kathi sorry I have just seen your answer on what God rule and nature is;Hi Georg,
Like I said to Pierre, love is a fruit of the divine nature, not the nature itself.SO THE LOVE OF GOD IS A FRUIT OF WHAT???
YOU SAY “OF THE DIVINE NATURE” BUT KATHI ,GOD IS LOVE;WERE DO YOU GET ALL THOSE IDEAS???scriptures do not say that God has LOVE but is LOVE.SO COULD EXPLAIN IT PLEASE???
think on those scriptures;Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
Ro 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Ro 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
1Co 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth1Co 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him
2Co 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with youto grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
Eph 3:19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God2Jn 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life1Jn 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.Pierre
Pierre
God is love Pierre, true. God is also Light. God is also truth. God IS many wonderful things but you can't just pick one and call it His nature. God is self-existent and self-sufficient too and that is significant. All those things are significant attributes of God.
kathiLove is first,light is next,and truth is the outcome of both.
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,13:13) Hi Ted, Quote Greetings Kathi…… Your question is an age old one that I can only answer with, as of now, Iam not sure to what extent we will share,but ,Iam sure that that threre is only one as the eternal….I would think that there is nothing greater than Love and to have a nature that is Love would be the sum total of what you have described as the gifts of the spirit…(Whose spirit?)….The angels are spirit which describes their state of existance not the power and authority they may or may not have….Surely Michael and Gabrial are spirit beings with much more authority than the minions of other angels over which they preside…. God is light, God is love, God is eternal, God is almighty. The fruit of the Spirit can be shared with believers but there are aspects of God's nature that He can not share with believers, i.e. self-existence for example. So to limit God's nature to 'love' seems less encompassing than summing up His nature as divine, imo. Divine nature would include 'love' and self-existence for example but a 'love' nature wouldn't have to include self-existence.
You say that there is one as the eternal. I would say that there is one essence that is eternal and both the Father and the Son contain it as I understand it. The Father always had the Son, or the potential Son within Him and at the right time, that Son was begotten as a person that had a mind/spirit/soul of His own, a perfect mind/spirit/soul like the Father's. Perfect begat perfect, not less than perfect.
Greetings Kathi….When i speak of the oneness of the eternal God it consists of his Word (the means by which he creates)His being (which IS ) and the spirit which is the power that IS…His is the Almighty Power all encompasing,all knowing and ever present…These attributes set him apart from the spirit world consisting of angels and demons…A direct result of our carnality is our inability to cultivate a nature of love…For love is always kind,love is never angry,love is never selfish,love is never boistreous and so on….Gods nature of Love is Agape….Not withstanding…we almost agree…Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,12:59) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 03 2010,07:07) Kathi! The nature of God, what is He? Is He not divine? Is He not immortal?? He is Spirit and always was Spirit. Since He is divine He could never come and die for us. While even tho Jesus was a Spirit being, He was not divine. But now He is… Jehovah God is Love, Love is an essence like Hope. Peace etc. When I say I love you, what is that. That is not my nature!!!!! My nature is Human…Peace Irene
Irene,
The Son was and is divine. His flesh died, not His divinity.You can love others but the Bible calls that one of the FRUITS of the Spirit of God, not the essence of God.
Galatians 5:22-23 NIV
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Kathie! What is the definition of divine?
To be divine is that He will never die again. Jehovah God always was divine, however Jesus became divine after His resurrection from the death…..He will never die again….IMO Peace IreneQuote (theodorej @ Dec. 06 2010,10:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,13:13) Hi Ted, Quote Greetings Kathi…… Your question is an age old one that I can only answer with, as of now, Iam not sure to what extent we will share,but ,Iam sure that that threre is only one as the eternal….I would think that there is nothing greater than Love and to have a nature that is Love would be the sum total of what you have described as the gifts of the spirit…(Whose spirit?)….The angels are spirit which describes their state of existance not the power and authority they may or may not have….Surely Michael and Gabrial are spirit beings with much more authority than the minions of other angels over which they preside…. God is light, God is love, God is eternal, God is almighty. The fruit of the Spirit can be shared with believers but there are aspects of God's nature that He can not share with believers, i.e. self-existence for example. So to limit God's nature to 'love' seems less encompassing than summing up His nature as divine, imo. Divine nature would include 'love' and self-existence for example but a 'love' nature wouldn't have to include self-existence.
You say that there is one as the eternal. I would say that there is one essence that is eternal and both the Father and the Son contain it as I understand it. The Father always had the Son, or the potential Son within Him and at the right time, that Son was begotten as a person that had a mind/spirit/soul of His own, a perfect mind/spirit/soul like the Father's. Perfect begat perfect, not less than perfect.
Greetings Kathi….When i speak of the oneness of the eternal God it consists of his Word (the means by which he creates)His being (which IS ) and the spirit which is the power that IS…His is the Almighty Power all encompasing,all knowing and ever present…These attributes set him apart from the spirit world consisting of angels and demons…A direct result of our carnality is our inability to cultivate a nature of love…For love is always kind,love is never angry,love is never selfish,love is never boistreous and so on….Gods nature of Love is Agape….Not withstanding…we almost agree…
Ted,
Where do you see us differing?Quote (Baker @ Dec. 06 2010,19:37) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,12:59) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 03 2010,07:07) Kathi! The nature of God, what is He? Is He not divine? Is He not immortal?? He is Spirit and always was Spirit. Since He is divine He could never come and die for us. While even tho Jesus was a Spirit being, He was not divine. But now He is… Jehovah God is Love, Love is an essence like Hope. Peace etc. When I say I love you, what is that. That is not my nature!!!!! My nature is Human…Peace Irene
Irene,
The Son was and is divine. His flesh died, not His divinity.You can love others but the Bible calls that one of the FRUITS of the Spirit of God, not the essence of God.
Galatians 5:22-23 NIV
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Kathie! What is the definition of divine?
To be divine is that He will never die again. Jehovah God always was divine, however Jesus became divine after His resurrection from the death…..He will never die again….IMO Peace Irene
Irene,
To be divine doesn't mean he will never die again, that is the word 'eternal' as in becoming eternal. Maybe I should add the word 'deity' to divine. The nature of God is divine deity…always existent, holy, owning the ability to create, to love, to know truth, etc. The true deity must have always existed and able to create. That sets Him apart from all others.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2010,20:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,19:53) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2010,00:57) Kathi sorry I have just seen your answer on what God rule and nature is;Hi Georg,
Like I said to Pierre, love is a fruit of the divine nature, not the nature itself.SO THE LOVE OF GOD IS A FRUIT OF WHAT???
YOU SAY “OF THE DIVINE NATURE” BUT KATHI ,GOD IS LOVE;WERE DO YOU GET ALL THOSE IDEAS???scriptures do not say that God has LOVE but is LOVE.SO COULD EXPLAIN IT PLEASE???
think on those scriptures;Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
Ro 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Ro 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
1Co 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth1Co 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him
2Co 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with youto grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
Eph 3:19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God2Jn 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life1Jn 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.Pierre
Pierre
God is love Pierre, true. God is also Light. God is also truth. God IS many wonderful things but you can't just pick one and call it His nature. God is self-existent and self-sufficient too and that is significant. All those things are significant attributes of God.
kathiLove is first,light is next,and truth is the outcome of both.
Pierre
Kathiare you disagreeing with this ??
Pierre
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