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gollamudi……….you got it right, and it's evident that God is working in your life, because your perceive truth.
peace to you and yours Adam………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2008,04:24) t8…….So you think God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose, I also believe they had the ability to choose, but the ability to choose has nothing to do with (FREE WILL). There choice was a caused choice, God first of all put the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil in front of them and even put the enticement there to partake of it.
Gene, God never tempts anyone.God put both trees in Paradise not to tempt man, but to test him. God didn't say subtly or blatantly to eat from the tree of good and evil, that was the serpent. Adam could have refused and did God's will.
If there was only one tree, then how could Adam choose not God? How would Adam have the ability to choose if there was not choice?
It was God's will that man be fruitful and multiply and eat from the tree of life. But man willed to eat the other tree that God said not to, and here we are today in a world full of problems.
But God's will is still for us to partake in the tree of life and therefore his plan is not destroyed but delayed while salvation is being worked out.
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;Revelation 22:14
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.T8…… Don't you think God know all along man was going to do what He did, why does it say Jesus was crucified from the foundations of the earth, wasn't it because God already know what was going to happen, why did He even gives Us weakened condition in the first place if it wasn't His will we fall.
If you believe what it says, that God Knows the End from the beginning then you have to agree He planned the whole thing out and Knew all along man would fall, it was in His purpose for that to happen, it wasn't just an accident. God is in control of it all from the beginning to the end.
All that has happened was need full for our growth in order to become His children. Remember even Jesus was lead into the wilderness by the spirit in order to be tempted. God is in complete control of everything that happens and is ultimately responsible for it all, and He takes full responsibility for it all to. HE IS SOVEREIGN.
peace to you and yours………….gene
peace to you and your…………….gene
T8…..Also i meant to say there was only one tree that produced the fruit of Good and evil that fruit comes from the same tree can from one tree. And the understanding of good and evil is what gives wisdom. It's a rough road but the end is understanding what good is and what evil is they explain each other. You can't understand one without the other.
IMO……………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2008,17:04) T8…… Don't you think God know all along man was going to do what He did, why does it say Jesus was crucified from the foundations of the earth, wasn't it because God already know what was going to happen, why did He even gives Us weakened condition in the first place if it wasn't His will we fall. If you believe what it says, that God Knows the End from the beginning then you have to agree He planned the whole thing out and Knew all along man would fall, it was in His purpose for that to happen, it wasn't just an accident. God is in control of it all from the beginning to the end.
All that has happened was need full for our growth in order to become His children. Remember even Jesus was lead into the wilderness by the spirit in order to be tempted. God is in complete control of everything that happens and is ultimately responsible for it all, and He takes full responsibility for it all to. HE IS SOVEREIGN.
peace to you and yours………….gene
peace to you and your…………….gene
Even if God knows, it doesn't mean that man didn't choose his own way and not heed God.But I wonder even about God knowing. God made us sovereign over our own decisions, in other words he let us choose and therefore if we choose, then he is not choosing for us. Sure we are in a finite place and therefore we have limited options, and ultimately there are just 2 roads.
We are the ones who choose to obey God or not. It is us and we cannot pass the blame onto the woman or the serpent. It is us. Such responsibility is given to his offspring. It is no small thing.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 08 2008,17:11) T8…..Also i meant to say there was only one tree that produced the fruit of Good and evil that fruit comes from the same tree can from one tree. And the understanding of good and evil is what gives wisdom. It's a rough road but the end is understanding what good is and what evil is they explain each other. You can't understand one without the other. IMO……………gene
The tree of knowledge gives us the understanding of good and evil. Perhaps God intended to let us eat this fruit at some stage in his plan, I do not know. But he surely told Adam not to eat of it, yet he disobeyed.So what do we do with this great knowledge? We build weapons and kill one another. We are so clever, yet we devise ways to destroy our brothers and ourselves. So whatever the truth, it surely shows that such fruit given to an immature man was lethal. Any in hindsight we know that Adam wasn't ready to become like God. We can see that now. Man is a failed creation. Redemption is our only hope.
Mens hearts will fail them in the last days. The inventions of man will be used against us. Never before have men had the ability to do so much evil, or evil on a great scale. This will create great fear.
Here's the thing, it doesn't matter if there are 100 doing good, because 1 man doing bad can annihilate all of them with a device the size of a suitcase. Eventually such technology will be so small that it makes you wonder what kind of world it will become in order to keep the peace.
Quote (t8 @ May 08 2008,22:12) Man is a failed creation. Redemption is our only hope. Mens hearts will fail them in the last days. The inventions of man will be used against us. Never before have men had the ability to do so much evil, or evil on a great scale. This will create great fear.
This takes the view that God was experimenting with humanity and that the experiment failed. I would disagree in that a perfect being of omniscience and omnipotence, would be incapable of mistake would he not? So either God is less then perfect, man wasn't his direct doing, or all is according to plan and in the end the results will be what God intended all along.As for the inventions of man remember this same technology has defeated many diseases that devestated populations of old far greater then war has ever done. How many people die of smallpox or bubonic plague today? Technology is todays fire, it can warm, cook or destroy so it is morally neutral. Yes never before could we do so much evil or so much good.
Cato…..i take the road God always know and intended man to experience Good and evil in order to gain wisdom he need. Didn't Jesus say “you shall all be taught by God”, God has not allowed all this without purpose.
T8…..why do you think it says the Carnal Mind is a enemy to God, is not subject to the laws of God, neither indeed (CAN) be. The carnal mind is what we are born with, it does not want to please God, it wants to please itself.
Why do you think it says's , I (GOD) will take out of you the stony heart and give you a heart of flesh. If Man could do it by His own so called (FREE WILL), why does God have to do that before a man can change.
Like i said before man likes to think He is his own God, by thinking he can freely choose his own destiny, but no where does scripture back that up. Show me where one person, of there own Free Will decided to live a Godly life.
Everything comes down to cause and effect, we are caused to change by God, that's what the word GRACE means. It's godly influence in our lives that cause change, and without it there is no change, Paul would have continued to kill Christians had God not intervened and caused him to change. It's that way with everyone without exception.
Even Jesus was caused to do what he did by the fullness of the Spirit in Him or else how do you think He was able to live a perfect sinless life. Do you think He did it on His own by exercising His own free will, He plainly said He could do (nothing) on his own, and the Father in me does the work, again cause and effect.
Listen i know it's goes against modern “Christendom” to think it not up to Us of our own so called (free Wills), to be brought to salvation, but none the less it's true.
“for it is God who works in us (BOTH) to WILL and do His good pleasure”,
If we believe this, then we are indeed (caused to do God's Pleasure) it has nothing to do with our so called “Free Wills”.Cato and T8…..peace to you both………..gene
T8………remember it says you are (CREATED) unto good works, God is the only Creator. And He Creates in us the will and desire for good works, by His Spirit. Being transformed by the (renewing) of your minds.
This transformation is not of the self, it from God.The disciples of Jesus failed continually when Jesus was with then, But once the Holy Spirit was given them, look what happened. Jesus said “after you receive (POWER) from on high, they would be witness of His.
Our choices are influenced by God's Spirit, if so be the Spirit is in you, otherwise the only option is carnal choices, but none are from (FREE)
WILL'S , they are all influenced choices we make.peace to you and yours……………..gene
Gene, what you said in your last two posts make sense to me.
We need to renew our minds, but our Creator is the source for that renewing, we can not get their on our own, He has to cause it to happen!
Peace and love, Jodi
Eternal torment requires that one have eternal life.
But the wicked will perish. The wicked will be destroyed.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.T8……the word eternal is not what aion means it means age. There is no word for eternal in Greek as i understand.
Peace to you and yours …………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 26 2008,08:22) T8……the word eternal is not what aion means it means age. There is no word for eternal in Greek as i understand. Peace to you and yours …………………gene
Agreed.The eternal torment doctrine contradicts scripture.
Words like perish and destruction are associated with the wicked.
Eternal life in a fire isn't supported from what I can see.The lake of fire is a place of destruction.
It is this same fire that will destroy the heavens and earth.After that, there will be a new heavens and earth where sin doesn't dwell.
Hi t8,
Good point.
But it could be for 1000 years or more could it not?
The false prophet and the beast were still there when the devil joined them 1000 years later.[Rev20]T8 and Nick…….I heard someone say that the book of revelation is purely symbolic. Where it says in chapter 1:1 , He sent and (signified) it. Means he sent and (SYMBOLIZED) it. In other words the book can only be understood from a symbolic form, I kind of think He may be right, that is also Sir Issac Newton's view. Almost everything about the book must be understood symbolically . I Believe you cant understand it literally but only through the eyes of symbolism.
Just a thought………….gene
Nick….no not ever thing but a lot of things are. and without the symbolic understand you just cant really understand it.
Here is just a few i think are right……Waters= peoples, sea= the sea of humanity, all the fish died in the sea= all people on earth will die, Mountains= big problems in our lives, Hill= lesser problems, whore= a church, fire= judgment, smoke= the lessons that remain for ever, these are just some of them i don't say i know them all but i am planning to try to rad the book with more of the symbolic view in mind.
IMO……gene
Hi GB,
So some matters are literally true and others symbolic but reveal hidden truths too?
That sounds better.
So the signs in the heavens are true and the events described in various symbolic ways are true and God expects us to search for their meaning?
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