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Hi,
trettep has some strong feelings on this matter so perhaps he would like to present them.
I feel the key is in 2Tim 2.11
” It is a trustworthy statement;
For if we died with him we shall also live with him
If we endure , we will also reign with him;
If we deny him, he will also deny us;
If we are faithless ,he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself”I think a key piece of scripture is this:
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold thatperisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Since Faith is the evidence of things not seen and the substance of things hoped for then these verses clearly show that salvation doesn't come until one has reached the end of our Faith. The end of our Faith will come when Faith is no longer needed because the substance and evidence will be with us. That is why in 1:7 shows this wont happen until Jesus Christ returns.
Furthermore, the doctrine of OSAS before the appearing of Christ is a satanic doctrine. The Devil used this doctrine against Eve:
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
This was the Devil telling Eve she was “saved” (had eternal life)
The story goes on as many know that without obedience and endurance onto the end – none will be guaranteed their salvation.
Paul
Hi,
God is faithful. He keeps His promises. That is why scripture tells us we “are” saved. That hope in God is sure if we not reject it ourselves. We are given the Spirit as a downpayment on the fullness of salvation that is revealed when Jesus returns.We are told to “work out your salvation in fear and trembling” and that is why Peter says “It is with difficulty that the righteous is saved”
The letters of Paul are addressed to the faithful assembly of believers.That is why he is able to reassure believers in Eph 2.5,8
” by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED”
” You HAVE BEEN SAVED through faith”
and in 2 Tim 1.8
“…God who HAS SAVED US and called us with a holy calling..”We can declare our faith and hope. We are saved. Praise God!
Hi,
So we must 'die ' with Jesus. That is not just our physical death. To be with Jesus we must come to him and abide in him. So death is that as described in Rom 6 and one of the witnesses of 1 Jn 5.8.We know we must endure to be full partakers but the yoke is easy and the burden light.
Hi david,
There is a forum on this. Do you believe being born again has nothing to do with salvation but only leadership?OK, what is the difference between this thread and the other one on salvation. I wish we could pick just one and have all our discussions about one topic in that one thread. Is this the preferred thread?
Nick. I believe being born again is necessary for entering the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
The Bible has a lot to say about salvation. We could easily make the mistake of oversimplifying this. For example. There is the scripture that says: 'Believe in the lord Jesus and you will be saved.' Does that mean that all that is required for salvation is believing in Jesus? No. The Bible has a lot to say about this. I haven't read what has already been posted. But I will.david.
Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2005,06:01) Nick, do you celebrate Christmas?
Hi david,
I celebrate everyday given to me in the kingdom.Quote Surely you know these are of the whore of Babylon?
OK, these words of yours makes it clear you don't celebrate Christmas. But why would T8 wish you a good Christmas last year?Hi david,
Is Christmas a special day to God or only to man? If it celebrates God coming to earth is that not about 30 years too early unless you are a trintarian? Does the coming of God to His people give them all something to celebrate or does it rather sadly seal their eternal fate unless they respond?Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2005,01:17) Quote Surely you know these are of the whore of Babylon?
OK, these words of yours makes it clear you don't celebrate Christmas. But why would T8 wish you a good Christmas last year?
I started a new thread for chrismas.Quote Hi davuid,
Is Christmas a special day to God or only to man? If it celebrates God coming to earth is that not about 30 years too early unless you are a trintarian? Does the coming of God to His people give them all something to celebrate or does it rather sadly seal their eternal fate unless they respond?So I'll take that as a….No? You don't celebrate Christmas, which you have previously referred to in connection with the whore of Babylon. Yet, it still makes me wonder why T8 would give Christmas greetings to you.
I think there is a bit of a balance to be had here.
On the one side of the extreme you have the idea that you are always saved no matter what, because it is eternal salvation.
On the other side is the idea that you can be saved and then lose that somehow.We are told to work this out with fear and trembling. I believe that if God saves an individual He does a proper job of it. What I think we have to bear in mind is the attitude of being sure, not cocky.
Many claim their salvation on the basis of what they think God says about the subject, Matt 7:22 so we have to give ourselves a check up from time to time to ensure we stay on track.If we are the truly saved – foreknown from the foundation of the world we will do so and our temporary failings are overlooked.
If not we prove ourselves to be false in the claim and so God confirms what He already knew would happen.Its one of those paradoxes of faith that many have trouble coming to terms with. That at that same time, He could predetermine the outcome, and yet we have free moral will to decide.
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