Eternal past existence of the son

[journey42]

terraricca,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]

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j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

When was Jesus born?

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01)

terraricca,Jan. wrote: [/quote] Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born?

J42

When was that ” before all of creation “

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,16:41)

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,23:43) Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born? J42 When was that ” before all of creation “

T.

Scripture please? That will do.
Thank you.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 12 2014,13:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,16:41) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,23:43) Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born? J42 When was that ” before all of creation “ T. Scripture please? That will do. Thank you. wakeup.

W

I ALREADY SHOWED YOU THE SCRIPTURES

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,04:27)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 12 2014,13:36) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,16:41) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,23:43) Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born? J42 When was that ” before all of creation “ T. Scripture please? That will do. Thank you. wakeup. W I ALREADY SHOWED YOU THE SCRIPTURES

T.

Can you give us evidensce
that you have given us the scriptures?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,01:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,04:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 12 2014,13:36) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,16:41) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,23:43) Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born? J42 When was that ” before all of creation “ T. Scripture please? That will do. Thank you. wakeup. W I ALREADY SHOWED YOU THE SCRIPTURES T. Can you give us evidensce that you have given us the scriptures? wakeup.

w

Col 1;15

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,08:36)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,01:34) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,04:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 12 2014,13:36) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,16:41) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 12 2014,10:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,23:43) Quote j42 do you understand the scriptures Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. When was Jesus born? J42 When was that ” before all of creation “ T. Scripture please? That will do. Thank you. wakeup. W I ALREADY SHOWED YOU THE SCRIPTURES T. Can you give us evidensce that you have given us the scriptures? wakeup. w Col 1;15

Pierre

That doesn't answer my question.

I asked “When was Jesus BORN?” seeing he is the FIRSTBORN?

[terraricca]

j42

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Pierre That doesn't answer my question. I asked “When was Jesus BORN?” seeing he is the FIRSTBORN

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

HE AS BEEN CREATED THE VERY FIRST OF GOD'S CREATION

[mikeboll64]

Pierre has it correct.  Colossians 1:15 tells us that Jesus was the firstborn of every creature. In the sane world, that translates into “the first creature ever brought forth into existence”.

Revelation 3:14 tells us that Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.  In the sane world, that translates into “the first thing God ever created”.

The phrase “firstborn Son”, in and of itself, tells us that Jesus was the first Son God ever had.  And we know He had many spiritual sons before He even created the earth.  Jesus was the FIRST of all of those spiritual sons of God.  (In fact, all the other ones were subsequently created THROUGH that firstborn one.)

Micah 5:2 teaches us that, even from Micah's ancient point of view, Jesus' origins were from the distant past.

All of these things, among others, make it a no-brainer that Jesus was indeed the firstborn of God, and the Word who was with God in the very beginning.

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,11:25)

j42 Quote Pierre That doesn't answer my question. I asked “When was Jesus BORN?” seeing he is the FIRSTBORN Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible HE AS BEEN CREATED THE VERY FIRST OF GOD'S CREATION

A simple answer is all I'm asking for,
Why can't you answer this?

So before the heavens and the earth were created?,
and before man was created?
Is that what you are saying?
He was “BORN” when he was “created” before all things.

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,11:27)

Pierre has it correct.  Colossians 1:15 tells us that Jesus was the firstborn of every creature.  In the sane world, that translates into “the first creature ever brought forth into existence”. Revelation 3:14 tells us that Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.  In the sane world, that translates into “the first thing God ever created”. The phrase “firstborn Son”, in and of itself, tells us that Jesus was the first Son God ever had.  And we know He had many spiritual sons before He even created the earth.  Jesus was the FIRST of all of those spiritual sons of God.  (In fact, all the other ones were subsequently created THROUGH that firstborn one.) Micah 5:2 teaches us that, even from Micah's ancient point of view, Jesus' origins were from the distant past. All of these things, among others, make it a no-brainer that Jesus was indeed the firstborn of God, and the Word who was with God in the very beginning.

Mike

I am sure I would have a good conversation with you about this, but let Pierre answer first, in case he copies your answer.

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 13 2014,15:26)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,11:25) j42 Quote Pierre That doesn't answer my question. I asked “When was Jesus BORN?” seeing he is the FIRSTBORN Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible HE AS BEEN CREATED THE VERY FIRST OF GOD'S CREATION A simple answer is all I'm asking for, Why can't you answer this? So before the heavens and the earth were created?, and before man was created? Is that what you are saying? He was “BORN” when he was “created” before all things.

j42

yes, that is what scriptures tell me ;also proverb 8;22-31

so that is my answer and understand that ;BORN/BRING FORTH/CREATED/CONCEIVED, ARE ALE THE SAME THING

Quote

but let Pierre answer first, in case he copies your answer.

[journey42]

terraricca,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]

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j42 yes, that is what scriptures tell me ;also proverb 8;22-31 so that is my answer and understand that ;BORN/BRING FORTH/CREATED/CONCEIVED, ARE ALE THE SAME THING

Pierre,

Your answer to me is more clear now.  You say Jesus was BORN in heaven, and by saying he was BORN, you mean he was CREATED by God,
and not only that, he was conceived in heaven, although there was no mother to put his seed into at that time, but nevertheless, it was done in heaven.

So the very same Jesus who in the beginning, who had his hand on creation WITH God, was actually a creature himself at that time?  The creator was really a creature?  Is this what you are saying.  Another creature, made like the angels?

Colossians 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 14 2014,05:12)

terraricca,Jan. wrote: [/quote] Quote j42 yes, that is what scriptures tell me ;also proverb 8;22-31 so that is my answer and understand that ;BORN/BRING FORTH/CREATED/CONCEIVED, ARE ALE THE SAME THING Pierre, Your answer to me is more clear now.  You say Jesus was BORN in heaven, and by saying he was BORN, you mean he was CREATED by God, and not only that, he was conceived in heaven, although there was no mother to put his seed into at that time, but nevertheless, it was done in heaven. So the very same Jesus who in the beginning, who had his hand on creation WITH God, was actually a creature himself at that time?  The creator was really a creature?  Is this what you are saying.  Another creature, made like the angels? Colossians 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

J42

all those names to bring to live the only begotten son of God are or have the same meaning ,

God was alone then God decide to create and start his creation with creating his son period ,how he looks ,what glory his father give him ,the reason for this to be could be understood but is not written

[terraricca]

j42

Quote

The creator was really a creature?

the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,12:33)

j42 Quote The creator was really a creature? the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes

T.

You just love, and have pleasure in contradicting the Word of God.

Colossians 1:16 ***For by him were all things created***,
***that are in heaven***,
***and that are in earth***,
***visible and invisible***,
***whether they be thrones, or dominions,
or principalities, or powers***:
***all things were created by him, *and for
him***:

Colossians 1:17 ***And he is before all things***,
***and by him all things consist***.

HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS.

Keep on contradicting the truth.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,09:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,12:33) j42 Quote The creator was really a creature? the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes T. You just love, and have pleasure in contradicting the Word of God. Colossians 1:16   ***For by him were all things created***,                           ***that are in heaven***,                           ***and that are in earth***,                           ***visible and invisible***,                     ***whether they be thrones, or dominions,                           or principalities, or powers***:              ***all things were created by him, *and for                    him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***,                             ***and by him all things consist***. HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. wakeup.

WAKEUP

Quote

Colossians 1:17 ***And he is before all things***,

IS GOD A THING YES OR NO .

COL;1; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers–all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together

IT SAYS “THROUGH HIM ” TO BE HONEST I WAS NOT THERE WHEN THIS CREATION HAPPEN ;SO I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS ;BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS THIS ;GOD CREATE ,THE WORD,HE USES THE WORD (HIS SON) TO CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS ,HOW DOES HE DO IT ARE DETAILS I DO NOT HAVE ,

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Quote

HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth.

READ THE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL HAVE MORE LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING IN YOU

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,15:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,09:35) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,12:33) j42 Quote The creator was really a creature? the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes T. You just love, and have pleasure in contradicting the Word of God. Colossians 1:16   ***For by him were all things created***,                           ***that are in heaven***,                           ***and that are in earth***,                           ***visible and invisible***,                     ***whether they be thrones, or dominions,                           or principalities, or powers***:              ***all things were created by him, *and for                    him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***,                             ***and by him all things consist***. HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. wakeup. WAKEUP Quote Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***, IS GOD A THING YES OR NO . COL;1; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers–all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together IT SAYS “THROUGH HIM ” TO BE HONEST I WAS NOT THERE WHEN THIS CREATION HAPPEN ;SO I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS ;BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS THIS ;GOD CREATE ,THE WORD,HE USES THE WORD (HIS SON) TO CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS ,HOW DOES HE DO IT ARE DETAILS I DO NOT HAVE , Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Quote HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. READ THE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL HAVE MORE LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING IN YOU

T.

In the beginning The WORD WAS SPOKEN OUT BY GOD.
THIS IS *BEFORE* CREATION STARTED.
*BEFORE GOD SPOKE*; THE WORD WAS STILL IN GOD'S MIND.STILL IN GOD.

COL.1. IS ABOUT THE MAN JESUS.
THIS MAN WAS *CREATED* AFTER ALL CREATION IS FINISHED. JESUS WAS MADE AS A CREATURE.
LIKE US.

FROM THE MIGHTY WORD, DOWN TO A CREATURE LIKE US.
THE WORD HUMBLED HIMSELF,BY WILLING TO BE MADE INTO A MAN.

THIS MAN WAS THE SECOND ADAM.THE FIRST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD.
THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY HUMAN.(CREATURE).
THE FIRST BORN AGAIN.MANY WILL FOLLOW TO BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT. WE WILL BE SPIRIT.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,11:16)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,15:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,09:35) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,12:33) j42 Quote The creator was really a creature? the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes T. You just love, and have pleasure in contradicting the Word of God. Colossians 1:16   ***For by him were all things created***,                           ***that are in heaven***,                           ***and that are in earth***,                           ***visible and invisible***,                     ***whether they be thrones, or dominions,                           or principalities, or powers***:              ***all things were created by him, *and for                    him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***,                             ***and by him all things consist***. HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. wakeup. WAKEUP Quote Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***, IS GOD A THING YES OR NO . COL;1; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers–all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together IT SAYS “THROUGH HIM ” TO BE HONEST I WAS NOT THERE WHEN THIS CREATION HAPPEN ;SO I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS ;BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS THIS ;GOD CREATE ,THE WORD,HE USES THE WORD (HIS SON) TO CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS ,HOW DOES HE DO IT ARE DETAILS I DO NOT HAVE , Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Quote HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. READ THE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL HAVE MORE LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING IN YOU T. In the beginning The WORD WAS SPOKEN OUT BY GOD. THIS IS *BEFORE* CREATION STARTED. *BEFORE GOD SPOKE*; THE WORD WAS STILL IN GOD'S MIND.STILL IN GOD. COL.1. IS ABOUT THE MAN JESUS. THIS MAN WAS *CREATED* AFTER ALL CREATION IS FINISHED. JESUS WAS MADE AS A CREATURE. LIKE US. FROM THE MIGHTY WORD, DOWN TO A CREATURE LIKE US. THE WORD HUMBLED HIMSELF,BY WILLING TO BE MADE INTO A MAN. THIS MAN WAS THE SECOND ADAM.THE FIRST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY HUMAN.(CREATURE). THE FIRST BORN AGAIN.MANY WILL FOLLOW TO BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT. WE WILL BE SPIRIT. wakeup.

W

THEIR IS NOT SCRIPTURES THAT SEPARATE THE MAN IN THE FLESH AND THE BEING FROM HEAVEN ,THEY ALL UNIT THEM

IT HELPS TO READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STUDY THEM SERIOUSLY

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,17:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,11:16) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,15:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,09:35) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,12:33) j42 Quote The creator was really a creature? the son his a being created by God ;and he was not the CREATOR or a creator ;the fact that someone has the opportunity to work with the creator does not make him the creator right yes T. You just love, and have pleasure in contradicting the Word of God. Colossians 1:16   ***For by him were all things created***,                           ***that are in heaven***,                           ***and that are in earth***,                           ***visible and invisible***,                     ***whether they be thrones, or dominions,                           or principalities, or powers***:              ***all things were created by him, *and for                    him***:  Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***,                             ***and by him all things consist***. HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. wakeup. WAKEUP Quote Colossians 1:17   ***And he is before all things***, IS GOD A THING YES OR NO . COL;1; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers–all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together IT SAYS “THROUGH HIM ” TO BE HONEST I WAS NOT THERE WHEN THIS CREATION HAPPEN ;SO I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS ;BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS THIS ;GOD CREATE ,THE WORD,HE USES THE WORD (HIS SON) TO CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS ,HOW DOES HE DO IT ARE DETAILS I DO NOT HAVE , Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Quote HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS; *NOT* CREATED BEFORE ALL THINGS. Keep on contradicting the truth. READ THE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL HAVE MORE LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING IN YOU T. In the beginning The WORD WAS SPOKEN OUT BY GOD. THIS IS *BEFORE* CREATION STARTED. *BEFORE GOD SPOKE*; THE WORD WAS STILL IN GOD'S MIND.STILL IN GOD. COL.1. IS ABOUT THE MAN JESUS. THIS MAN WAS *CREATED* AFTER ALL CREATION IS FINISHED. JESUS WAS MADE AS A CREATURE. LIKE US. FROM THE MIGHTY WORD, DOWN TO A CREATURE LIKE US. THE WORD HUMBLED HIMSELF,BY WILLING TO BE MADE INTO A MAN. THIS MAN WAS THE SECOND ADAM.THE FIRST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY HUMAN.(CREATURE). THE FIRST BORN AGAIN.MANY WILL FOLLOW TO BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT. WE WILL BE SPIRIT. wakeup. W THEIR IS NOT SCRIPTURES THAT SEPARATE THE MAN IN THE FLESH AND THE BEING FROM HEAVEN ,THEY ALL UNIT THEM IT HELPS TO READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STUDY THEM SERIOUSLY

T.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The *first* man Adam was made a living soul; the *last* Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The last Adam was born again into spirit.

wakeup.

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