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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 28 2009,09:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2009,17:33) Hi WJ,
POPE is from PAPA.
We have one Father in heaven and the meandering of men into fellowship based on philosophy and speculation only isolates them from fellowship with God and His Son.[2Jn]
Hi NHActually you show your lack of understanding the scriptures.
Paul claimed to be the Father of many! Study the word!
WJ
That was what I said if you accept Paul you must accept the Pope and yet you do not even do that WJ.Quote unbroken line of apostolic succession. No.
“unbroken”
No.
Made up of sometimes imaginary people that didn't even exist to fill the holes.
Yes.
Quote But has he ever told you that he believes that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel? CA. You are so far behind.
There are about 8 threads on Michael the Archangel, almost of all which were started by people such as yourself. I think you'd be surprised to find that you and I have one or two overlapping beliefs that most people on this forum do not share. For example, you assume most people on here believe good people go to heaven. I was surprized to find I have to convince a lot of people that anyone goes to heaven, ever. Half the people on this thread believe everyone will live on the earth, not in heaven. Yet,you bring up my belief that most people will live on the earth, as though it was supposed to shock other people.
Quote You know, David, you were the guy I was tempted to stay on and debate. I think the moderator dude was getting under my skin. He's kind of hard to not get annoyed at. Sorry, Nick, you deserve the truth.
As I said before, Nick is here to make us stronger, more patient. Consider him a precious gift that sharpens certain qualities.
Quote Me: The Bible says…
Him: We have to also consider tradition.
Me: But the Bible says this about tradition…
Him: The Bible isn't the only source of religious truth..
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: The Pope says you're wrong.
Me: I know you are but what am I?
Him: Someone who is going to burn…
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: Goodbye.
Me: Wait, this is fun.
Him: Silence.I can't believe I didn't get a laugh from this. I thought it was hilarious.
Quote O, btw, “Jehovah” or “YHWH” isn't Greek. So what in the world is it doing in your NT?
Nor is the word…”the.”Do you ever use the word “Jesus”? I bet you do.
Quote So you see, I'm not running from a discussion that I've had many times before. I just didn't think he was listening. We'll see if he is.
But YOU ARE RUNNING.
You came on here and posted about Catholic objections and said: 'Hi, I'm a Catholic, and this is the way.' But when anyone quotes a scripture to the contrary, you ignore it, or say you have your pope. THEN, and this is the good part, you said you'd leave because we didn't accept the apostolic succession. I created a thread explaining why. Instead of looking at any of the scriptures, you only care about Augustine. You say I misquoted him and don't know what he taught, when really, I was quoting a retraction, which you didn't seem to know existed. (Maybe you have been a little mislead as to what he taught.) And then, you do exactly as I suspect….when you can't defend your own beliefs, you do what? Attack mine. It is the obvious approach of someone who can't defend their own beliefs.. It is the easy way out. I completely understand.
david
Quote But in all honesty we would not have a Bible if it were not for the Catholics, and he is right they seem to be the closest to the early Apostles and the original Church! The closest except in their beliefs, attitudes, conduct, actions, disciple, teachings, etc, etc etc…..
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,18:00) Hey guys, This is probably where I need to get off the bus. It's been a good ride while it lasted.
I'm not going to argue with anyone based on a Sola Scriptura presupposition.
Unless we can agree about the place of the Scriptures as written and intended, there is little we can accomplish here.
I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you.
God love your souls!
Greetings…..Perhaps Iam wrong…and forgive me if Iam wrong but in your parting post Iam reading a degree of smugness per haps you are not really an apologist but a very devote catholic who is convinced and convicted and are able to find comfort in your faith…..thanks for your input…Quote Hi All If everyone was honest here , some of the earliest records and writings of the Church Fathers goes way back to around 110 AD by the third Bishop of Rome which was Ignatius who was a disciple of the beloved John the closest one of the 12 to Jesus.
I am not sure about the first 2 Popes which they say the first is Peter, maybe CA can enlighten us on that.
But in all honesty we would not have a Bible if it were not for the Catholics, and he is right they seem to be the closest to the early Apostles and the original Church!
WJ
Actually Ignatius was a successor to Peter in Antioch. His contemporary bishop in Rome whose writings we have extant today would be Clement of Rome, fourth from Peter. These are both first century Christians who would have known the apostles. And they were Catholic/Orthodox through and through.
Quote (david @ Aug. 28 2009,10:45) Quote You know, David, you were the guy I was tempted to stay on and debate. I think the moderator dude was getting under my skin. He's kind of hard to not get annoyed at. Sorry, Nick, you deserve the truth.
As I said before, Nick is here to make us stronger, more patient. Consider him a precious gift that sharpens certain qualities.
Quote Me: The Bible says…
Him: We have to also consider tradition.
Me: But the Bible says this about tradition…
Him: The Bible isn't the only source of religious truth..
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: The Pope says you're wrong.
Me: I know you are but what am I?
Him: Someone who is going to burn…
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: Goodbye.
Me: Wait, this is fun.
Him: Silence.I can't believe I didn't get a laugh from this. I thought it was hilarious.
Quote O, btw, “Jehovah” or “YHWH” isn't Greek. So what in the world is it doing in your NT?
Nor is the word…”the.”Do you ever use the word “Jesus”? I bet you do.
Quote So you see, I'm not running from a discussion that I've had many times before. I just didn't think he was listening. We'll see if he is.
But YOU ARE RUNNING.
You came on here and posted about Catholic objections and said: 'Hi, I'm a Catholic, and this is the way.' But when anyone quotes a scripture to the contrary, you ignore it, or say you have your pope. THEN, and this is the good part, you said you'd leave because we didn't accept the apostolic succession. I created a thread explaining why. Instead of looking at any of the scriptures, you only care about Augustine. You say I misquoted him and don't know what he taught, when really, I was quoting a retraction, which you didn't seem to know existed. (Maybe you have been a little mislead as to what he taught.) And then, you do exactly as I suspect….when you can't defend your own beliefs, you do what? Attack mine. It is the obvious approach of someone who can't defend their own beliefs.. It is the easy way out. I completely understand.
david
David,I was hoping to have more time today. It's the end of the month and I need to make sure business is in order so I can support my family. I'm sure you understand.
But in the mean time, I want to say that there is a reason why I had to start with Sola Scriptura with you. Here's how things just may play out:
You: Jesus is Michael the Archangel
Me: What a preposterous claim. What kind of pizza did you have last night?
You: Pepperoni. But that's beside the point. It says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
Nick: Did you know that Michael the Archangel travels in a UFO?
Me: The return of the Lord will be heralded by an archangel. But there is nothing in this verse to prove explicitly that this is the voice of Jesus Himself.
You: I disagree with your interpretation of Scripture. It is SO clear to me that I am right.
Me: Not only do I think you have horrible exegesis when it comes to this passage, but your INTERPRETATION of this passage also flies in the face of Scripture A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K….Z
Nick: Did you know that eating pizza is not Scriptural?
You: You're a Catholic and you hate to look at Scripture
Me: I just did and you are clearly wrong based upon the Scriptural, historical, etc. evidence.
You: See you just can't stick to Scripture alone
Me: I did and still proved you wrong.
You: You see, Catholics are always afraid of me because I'm so smart.
Nick: Ewoks don't believe in light sabers.END
Quote David, I was hoping to have more time today. It's the end of the month and I need to make sure business is in order so I can support my family. I'm sure you understand.
Yes, I am crazy busy today as well. I have these periods where I'm not busy and I post for 5 hours straight. Today is exactly the opposite. It's 11:30PM and I'm ….working.
As you say, you are in a jovial mood tonight. But, I've had the “michael” discussion about …. let me think, at least 26 times on this forum. I usually try to direct people to the previous 20 discussions and try really hard to have those discussions in the same spot. But it's hard when every 6 months someone creates a new “Michael” thread. I will find the link for you, and then you will know what we actually believe and why. And you will know the discussions aren't about pizza, but go on for weeks at a time.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….41;st=0
That is by far the biggest of the threads. The first 20 pages or so I discuss a lot. Somewhere in the middle, I think I list all the reasons.
What I think you should find interesting is this:
A whole lot of that discussion is other people attempting to explain to me that what I believe is not explicitly stated, but only strongly suggested. Over and over again, Nick says that to me. But for you, someone who doesn't seem to care what scripture explicitly says and what it does not explicitly say, how can you even argue against it? I could just say: “It's tradition.” And that would be the end of it.
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