Emmanuel

Participant

Tim! Again, did Jesus not give us the Great Commandments? And why? Is it because we are not righteous, or is it because in the flesh we fail? And why do we have a Mediator if we are made perfect now? Are you perfect? I don't think so….also you don't know how to quote others… press the quote button, then paste what they are saying, then press quote button again, and then say what you want to say about them… that way you don't confuse others….Irene

September 17, 2011 at 10:03 am#258618

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 17 2011,10:53)

Irene: Rom.3:21…..but now, the righteousness of God,WITHOUT THE LAW, is manifested….V22…..even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe….!

Rom.3:28….therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by faith without the deeds of the law…..!

V5….but to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness….!

V6…..blessed is the man whom God imputeth righteousness without works…..V7…blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered…!

V15…the law worketh wrath, for where there is no law there is no transgression/sin…!!

Rom.6:14….for sin shall not have dominion over you: for YE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE. [grace: divinity's influence on the heart]

There are so many scriptures in the New Testament but not enough space here to make someone believe a point. You can show people the truth but it is they who must accept and believe it. Perhaps across the world maybe one will listen anyway. To say you are not righteous or still have sin or are not made perfect unto God by the works of Jesus is tantamount to blasphemy in my opinion, against the perfect work of Jesus given to mankind.

Peace to all who accept the truth of Jesus. TK

September 17, 2011 at 1:45 pm#258640

Participant

Hi Tim,

You're telling us on one side of your mouth that we are perfect, but on the other
side of your mouth you claim that those who don't think as you do are in error.
Please explain to us how your logic reconciles these two opposing thoughts?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 17, 2011 at 2:27 pm#258645

Participant

Tim! Romans are not speaking of the Great Commandments Jesus gave us…. It is speaking of the Sacrificial law, which is written of the other side of the tablets…..otherwise the Bible would contradict itself and it doesn't…..

1Jo 3:24 ¶ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

The Great Commandments
1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 3:24 ¶ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us

If you read the first few verses you might believe that Jesus is not talking about anything but faith, but you have to remember that we do life by faith, but also by the commandments Jesus gave us…. To take it away is not according to Scriptures….there is also a Scripture that says if you believe that you don;t sin the truth is not in us…. I am still looking for that Scripture…..

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Peace Irene

Irene

September 18, 2011 at 9:38 am#258731

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 18 2011,00:45)

Hi Tim,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed: Our perfection that I refer to is created by believing Gods truth. Believing what God has done and said through Jesus, makes a man aware of who and what he already is. If you don't believe who you are in God you then are whatever imperfect/sin being you think you are.

Truth stands forever, lies come and go! Truth is good and creates more and better unto eternal life. Lies/evil all dark beliefs of illusion create more death, destruction, lesser life unto death.

The truth of God is your perfection. It is done, finished, and complete. It is ours if we accept it and believe it. You are perfect because God says you are through Jesus. Do you believe it is true? Then then it is so. If later one hears the evil words of destruction or death or unworthiness or uncleanliness, dark spirits of deception away from the truth of God and believes them he has then chosen the pathway of death and destruction (of the mind/self)!

Also remember we are in two different worlds here. In the physical world created in duality “perfect” would be a relative term. There is no specific determination for a relative question. Still perfection would be what you believe it to be.

I ask that no one think as I do unless it is in alignment with Gods words. My attempt in life is to bring the light of God to the minds of his children. Letting them know the truth of who they already are. Religion or mans errant/sin beliefs have covered or blocked the truth since the beginning of recorded time. IMO, TK

September 18, 2011 at 9:54 am#258734

Proclaimer

Participant

Many names in scripture have the name of God in them.
Emanuel like those other names references God and doesn't make the one who has that name to be God.

Many names contain Ya, theo, and El and we may not recognise that from reading an English translation.

But here are a few names you might recognise.

Theodore, Theodora, Theo, Joshua, Eliyah, Isaiah.

Names given by God and those that Jesus gave have special meaning.
They were never meant to be taken that one is actually God if Theos, Ya, or El was in the name.

Thus Immanuel and Yeshua/Joshua, is not to be taken as meaning God himself.
Rather they are names about God. God with us or God's gift, Ja's Gift, is not identifying one as God.

September 18, 2011 at 10:04 am#258737

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 18 2011,01:27)

1Jo 3:24 ¶ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Peace Irene

Irene

Irene: I love you! But when you begin to pull scriptures from their intended context to build or support an errant doctrine there is no place left for the truth. When understood the New Testament does not contradict itself!

In my opinion you have accepted certain scriptures to support your doctrines and protect your “Great Commandments” which is just love the lord and love your neighbor as yourself.

Please look up the greek word translated “commandment”. Its keeping Gods words. Its holding fast to what Jesus says from God. It is a suggestion to follow the ways God. It seems you try to make the word “commandment” a bunch of rules to follow. God gave us no such rules.

Keeping Gods words IS KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENT! Only seeing love in the scriptures and not evil is a start. God is love. Gods words are love. Gods “commandment” is love. Love yourself and love your neighbor.

I happen to agree with all your scriptures! Tell me this, if we love and dwell in love and accept Gods love how could you believe in sin? Maybe you don't but it seems that you believe we sin all the time or at least some of the time. Sin is apart from love. Sin is separate from God. Sin doesn't align with love/God/truth. IMO, TK

What do you believe his “commandments” to be?
TK

September 18, 2011 at 10:15 am#258739

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,20:38)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 18 2011,00:45)

Hi Tim,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Truth stands forever, lies come and go! Truth is good and creates more and better unto eternal life. Lies/evil all dark beliefs of illusion create more death, destruction, lesser life unto death.

Hi Tim,

So a person who believes they are a sinner asking God for forgiveness
is worse off than an Atheist who believes sin (like you) doesn't exist.

Is this what you really believe?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 18, 2011 at 10:19 am#258741

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,21:04)

When understood the New Testament does not contradict itself!

Hi Tim,

But it does contradict (according to you) the Old Testament;
is this the doctrine you are pushing here, Tim? NO SALE!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 18, 2011 at 11:22 am#258743

Participant

Ed: You stated:

……So a person who believes they are a sinner asking God for forgiveness…….IS THIS NOT A CONTRADICTION? IF A PERSON BELIEVES HE IS A SINNER OR IN SIN AND COMES TO GOD FOR CLEANSING, HE IS CLEANSED AND MADE WHOLE!

IF A RELIGIOUS PERSON COMES TO GOD FOR CLEANSING FROM SIN AND STILL BELIEVES HIS SIN REMAINS HE HAS NO OTHER WAY TO BE CLEANSED. SUCH AS MANY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY STILL SIN OR ARE IN SIN AND SIN WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT. THOSE ARE SINNERS.

is worse off than an [Atheist who believes sin] (like you) doesn't exist……. THIS IS WERE YOU MAKE A RELIGIOUS FOOL OF YOURSELF. THERE CAN BE NO SUCH PERSON. IF ONE COMES TO JESUS TO BE CLEANSED IT IS SO. IF ONE DOESN'T EVEN BELIEVE IN JESUS, HE HAS NO FAITH FOR HIS CLEANSING. BELIEVING IN THE PERFECTION OF CHRIST BY FAITH CLEANSES FOREVER!!

JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD AND AN ATHEIST DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD. HE REMAINS IN SIN. HE IS IN SIN IF HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD/!

DON'T JUST MAKE STATEMENTS OF CONTRADICTION. USE SOUND DOCTRINE OR SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT OR CORRECT OR WE HAVE NOTHING TO DISCUSS. TK

September 18, 2011 at 2:51 pm#258763

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 18 2011,21:19)

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,21:04)

When understood the New Testament does not contradict itself!

Hi Tim,

But it does contradict (according to you) the Old Testament;
is this the doctrine you are pushing here, Tim? NO SALE!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I agree Ed, I have no idea what else to say to Tim…. He is so far off what Jesus really is saying…. We are not only under grace but also under Jesus blood the New Covenant and the Great Commandments, which includes all the LAW AND THE PROPHETS….

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Only the sacrificial laws have been nailed on the cross, Tim doesn't understand that….Unfortunately…

Peace Irene

September 18, 2011 at 3:01 pm#258764

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,22:22)

Ed: You stated:

JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD AND AN ATHEIST DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD. HE REMAINS IN SIN. HE IS IN SIN IF HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD/!

DON'T JUST MAKE STATEMENTS OF CONTRADICTION. USE SOUND DOCTRINE OR SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT OR CORRECT OR WE HAVE NOTHING TO DISCUSS. TK

Hi Tim,

You don't have time for me in the other thread,
but in this one you do; that's rather strange?

Ask Stuart our forum Atheist
if he thinks sin exists;
he will tell you no.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 18, 2011 at 3:11 pm#258767

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 19 2011,01:51)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 18 2011,21:19)

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,21:04)

When understood the New Testament does not contradict itself!

Hi Tim,

But it does contradict (according to you) the Old Testament;
is this the doctrine you are pushing here, Tim? NO SALE!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Only the sacrificial laws have been nailed on the cross, Tim doesn't understand that….Unfortunately…

Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

Yea it is a shame, is it not?
Tim is in for a rude awakening.
Here's Jesus' own words for Tim…

Luke 6:46-49 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show
you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep,
and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat
vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon
a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without
a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did
beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)

September 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm#258768

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 18 2011,21:04)

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 18 2011,01:27)

1Jo 3:24 ¶ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Peace Irene

Irene

In my opinion you have accepted certain scriptures to support your doctrines and protect your “Great Commandments” which is just love the lord and love your neighbor as yourself.

What do you believe his “commandments” to be?
TK

When I gave you good Scrip0tures that proof my point, they are taking out of contract….that is a lot of bullony….
1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These Scriptures tell us that if we do sin, we have Mediator Jesus Christ….verse 1

verse 2 tells us that He is the Mediator for all the people in this world not only the elect…. or chosen ones…

verse 23 tells us, that we know Him if we keep His Commandments

verse 24 HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM, AND DOESN'T KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM…

this is not taken out of contacts at all, it is the truth, and the truth will set you free….

But you Tim, don't want to hear the truth, right?

1Jo 5:1 ¶ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
not taken out of contact either…. I grant you this however

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Now let me ask you Tim, what does this have to do to with the first three verses? Nothing…. it is set in….

You will find that some Scriptures in the Bible are done so… that does not eliminate the first three Scriptures are all other Scriptures…

You are reaching for straws….that is not according to ALL scriptures….according to you, you nit pick those that fit your doctrine, and not the truth at all….Irene

September 19, 2011 at 9:37 am#258826

Participant

Irene: Thanks for quoting many good scriptures. I enjoy and understand what they say to me. I can't really tell what your beliefs are. You say you (everyone) has sin or does sin or might sin [but] we have an advocate, Jesus the righteous. And Jesus is our mediator unto God. Does this mean that Jesus “pleads our cause” before God and sin is not imputed. Or sin is forgiven? If it is forgiven then why do you quote scriptures that make reference to when a person “was” in sin? Somewhere along the line sin is forgiven, is it not? Isn't that what Jesus came to do, take away the sin of the world? Did he do that? Then how is it that you claim to still sin or be in sin? Are you a sinner? Are your “sins” forgiven? Then somewhere along the line you are “sin-free” !!

Does it bother you that I have found peace and freedom in God? Does it irritate you to think that someone could be so deceived as to believe that Jesus save me from sin. Took my sin away. Forgave me. Made me righteous, clean, worthy, whole and perfect unto God by faith. I believe God and therefore am I saved by his love and grace. You can be whatever you believe the scriptures say to you. They clearly say something different to me. Faith pleases God!

I am not reaching for anything. I have the truth that God gave me and I am at peace and rest. I have only tried to show others where religion has robbed them of this peace and contentment where I stand. I have traveled many religious roads formed many doctrines and beliefs over the years. As I heard the truth within I purged the untruth/religious doctrines out of my mind. 24/7, continual cleansing of untruth replaced by the truth in my mind for many years. It is this purging of darkness and wrong thinking(sin) that has given me the faith where I stand. Through dedicated service into the words of God, through Jesus, for his truth and no other, I stand with my God. In peace and perfection forever, TK

September 19, 2011 at 11:51 am#258834

Participant

Tim! Why would Scripture say in one place that we have a advocate that if we do sin, He will in a twinkle of an eye forgive us those sins, and then turn around that we are always righteous? That is contradicting Scriptures. That is not so. In this flesh we will sin, not intentionally but at times we will… That you seem to forget and not understand…. It does not bother me one bit, but it is not according to Scriptures, that we don't have the commandments that Jesus gave us…. you fall short of that….so you consider yourself perfect…. and yet it says all have fallen short of the glory of God…. Irene PS that is all I am gong tos ay to you, I don't want to waste my time……and repeat, repeat myself….

September 19, 2011 at 2:21 pm#258837

Participant

Irene: First off I hate to use the word “commandments” because you apparently hear the word commandment as rules or laws. Look up the words Jesus used and you will find that when he says,… follow my “commandments”…. its the same greek word used in Hebrews 9:19…when Moses had spoken all his “precepts” unto the people….commandments are precepts of life or prescriptions to use if you want a better life. Jesus was said, if you follow my “prescriptions for life” you will love one another. And the Father and I(pure love) will come to you and make our abode(house, temple) in you. That we all may be ONE/LOVE together. That is a suggestion for life, for good life. Love is what Jesus suggests that we follow if we want the good life. He was not telling us to follow the law of Moses that he was fulfilling.
For me a commandment is a law that must be followed to avoid a punishment! What Jesus was actually saying was not follow the law or be disciplined. He was saying, be smart and give love so as to live love.

I am sorry that you feel I am a lost cause or a waste of time but I have always felt that other read these posts and learn from them or at least get fired up to study for themselves. Even our disagreement about sin is much closer in agreement that you think. I say sin is gone, taken away by Jesus. You say we still sin but have an instant advocate that forgives instantly so we are both without sin it seems to me you just have to keep going to Jesus and asking for cleansing that he has already done!

I would appreciate not repeating scriptures over and over to substantiate a perceived or mis-perceived truth too. There are thousands to support the truth. If you choose not to continue conversing I understand. Bless you and peace be unto you, TK

September 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm#258844

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 19 2011,20:37)

I am not reaching for anything. I have the truth that God gave me and I am at peace and rest. I have only tried to show others where religion has robbed them of this peace and contentment where I stand. I have traveled many religious roads formed many doctrines and beliefs over the years. As I heard the truth within I purged the untruth/religious doctrines out of my mind. 24/7, continual cleansing of untruth replaced by the truth in my mind for many years. It is this purging of darkness and wrong thinking(sin) that has given me the faith where I stand. Through dedicated service into the words of God, through Jesus, for his truth and no other, I stand with my God. In peace and perfection forever, TK

Hi Tim,

Does this mean that you are only here 'only' to teach and not also to learn?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 20, 2011 at 12:01 am#258891