- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 27 2009,16:34) Katjo……….If you don't drop all the false teaching of the Apostate Churches , Trinity, Preexistences, Doctrines about devils and demons , and GOD tossing His created Children into a literial inferno Fire of Some kind. You can not come into the true light. The spread of False teachings have totally taken over “Christianity” and has blinded their eyes to the truth. IMO peace and love…………………..gene
Gene i'm sorry but you're an idiot. I'm tired of you trash talking everyone. You don't even rebuttal verses all you do is point fingers and say what we say is garbage.How can you say drop the teachings of the apostate churches when Katjo just QUOTED EVERYTHING FROM THE BIBLE.
You really need to stop all your verbal bashing and demeaning, and debate like an adult.
It's ok that we all have differences, and it's even healthy to debate scripture, but when you just call names and condemn, you're doing neither, therefore your input is useless on these forums.
BTW Katjo I read your lengthy post from beginning to end, and all I can say is……..Amen.
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 28 2009,02:20) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 27 2009,05:28) The second death, as it is called, the one where people are cast into the lake of fire, is the final judgment, a period of instruction and discipline where SIN is put to death, but not the sinner. The sinner is cast into a fire for refinement to melt away and destroy the SIN, thus destroying the idolater, the murderer, the sexual immoral, and leaving a faithful servant Please show me where that is in the bible, I'd really like to believe that.
And even tho he desires and wills that no man perish, that is his righteous feeling towards all of us, but that doesn't mean that we all will be saved one way or another. God cannot go against his own righteousness, even his own laws that the wicked will be punished and perish in the flames of hell.
But pls provide scripture that indicates what you are saying will happen in the second death.
So far from what I've read…I haven't seen any sinner who partakes in the second death getting another chance at righteousness, or going through a refinement process.
Greetings R man….Jodi' post certainly depicts the existence of a mercifull God and is fairly accurate with respect to the circumstances surrounding the second death….The milenium period will be a period of judgement for those who God saw fit to let survive the tribulation,during this period the world will be full of the knowledge of God(as a result of the outpouring of his spirit)…Jesus will preside over this period as King of Kings and lord of lords…Satan will be bound for this period and Gods kingdom/Government will be in control….The unfortunate circumstance will be that there will be those who will reject this Government,they will suffer the second death and will cease to exist for eternity…Every person who ever lived will be given a chance to know God,as I said some will reject him..This information is available throughout the scriptures,it is Gods plan for mankind….
Ok you all misunderstand, please read the posts I quote before assuming.I do believe in a first and second death, and I do believe in a literal hell.
What Cindy was proposing was that hell was a refinement period where sinners go to be purified and made into saints.
I asked her where is that in the bible…because from what I know I do not believe that to be true.
She also proposes a merciful God, but that is choosing reason and logical over scripture.
So yes I believe in a literal Hell, and second death where sinners burn eternally. Whether it is a literal fire or the burning desire to end their self inflicted suffering; I know it is torture for all eternity based on scripture.
Cindy believs it's a refinement process where everyone will eventually be made a saint. That is just….unbiblical.
O and I do believe our Lord is a Merciful God…but if you don't get it right, while on earth…
There is no second chance. And it's not God who sends you to hell, you send your self…due to disobediance.
God's Mercy as given through the gift of his Son's Death…that alone is all the mercy he would need to give to us.
Don't forget salvation is given by grace, not because God owes anyone anything….so if you go to Hell….you've already missed all your chances.
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 28 2009,02:20) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 27 2009,05:28) The second death, as it is called, the one where people are cast into the lake of fire, is the final judgment, a period of instruction and discipline where SIN is put to death, but not the sinner. The sinner is cast into a fire for refinement to melt away and destroy the SIN, thus destroying the idolater, the murderer, the sexual immoral, and leaving a faithful servant Please show me where that is in the bible, I'd really like to believe that.
And even tho he desires and wills that no man perish, that is his righteous feeling towards all of us, but that doesn't mean that we all will be saved one way or another. God cannot go against his own righteousness, even his own laws that the wicked will be punished and perish in the flames of hell.
But pls provide scripture that indicates what you are saying will happen in the second death.
So far from what I've read…I haven't seen any sinner who partakes in the second death getting another chance at righteousness, or going through a refinement process.
Greetings R man….Jodi' post certainly depicts the existence of a mercifull God and is fairly accurate with respect to the circumstances surrounding the second death….The milenium period will be a period of judgement for those who God saw fit to let survive the tribulation,during this period the world will be full of the knowledge of God(as a result of the outpouring of his spirit)…Jesus will preside over this period as King of Kings and lord of lords…Satan will be bound for this period and Gods kingdom/Government will be in control….The unfortunate circumstance will be that there will be those who will reject this Government,they will suffer the second death and will cease to exist for eternity…Every person who ever lived will be given a chance to know God,as I said some will reject him..This information is available throughout the scriptures,it is Gods plan for mankind….
theodorej! I could not have said it better, and I do agree with you. I like to add this, that when God pures out His wrath in the Tribulation, the Christians will go into safety. Where that will be the Bible does not reveal.
Good job.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (katjo @ Aug. 28 2009,02:15) cindy, when he pours out his wrath christians will be took up in the rapture.
My Husband said that there is no rapture. I personally don't know for sure. There is a Scripture that states this
1 Thess. 4:17 ” Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” That is why so many belief in the rapture. Those are already with the Lord are the Saints that have been resurrected and are with the Lord. There is a first resurrection that the Bible talks about. My belief is that those Saints are the ones that lost there lives and were prosecuted by the Romans first and then by the Catholic Church.
So we all have to make up our minds what to belief. This subject is not easy to understand and I will wait and see before I make up my mind. Christ will one day teach us all only the truth, and to that time I am forever looking forward to.
Peace and Love IreneGene:Second death is in Rev.20:4-15. Im not sure what you was wanting me to quote on Rev. Our fleshly body is what dies. You cannot kill the soul.(im sure you know there is scripture for that).Our soul is what goes to heaven or hell. christians are suppose to be took up in the rapture. we are not suppose to go threw God's wrath. But the ones left on earth will have to BUT they will still have a chance to repent and receive Jesus as their Saviour.(there is scripture for that too) But people who have already passed on and did not except jesus as thier Saviour, dont get a second chance. They chose to live their live without Christ.(10) tell us the devil that deceived them was cast into the fire where the beast and false prophets are. and it does say “will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Jude1:6 tells us ;and the angels which kept not their first esate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains unto the judgment of the great day. I know this stuff is hard to swallow but if we dont except Him into our lives, after he paid the price for our sins, That shows him we do not believe in him. I hope I answered your question. God Bless You
theodorej–Where is that at in the bible?( a sinner is put into the fire to destroy the sin and than is a faithful servant)
Hi KAT,
That sounds like WWCOG folly.
The fire prepared for the devil and his angels is the end for the dross of mankind.Quote (katjo @ Aug. 28 2009,06:59) theodorej–Where is that at in the bible?( a sinner is put into the fire to destroy the sin and than is a faithful servant)
That's the point I was trying to make, it doesn't say that in the bible. Cindy and Jodi Lee made that up.Theodorej-Thank God for that answer!! I couldnt understand that at all. and ROKKAMAN(I think it was you)thank you for taking up for me. are you the one that said you read my lengthy post on trinity and backed me, thank you so very much! Everyone wants to down the trinity but when you put so many scriptures together like I did to try– than no one wants to read it. or has no comment anyway.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:11) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 28 2009,02:20) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 27 2009,05:28) The second death, as it is called, the one where people are cast into the lake of fire, is the final judgment, a period of instruction and discipline where SIN is put to death, but not the sinner. The sinner is cast into a fire for refinement to melt away and destroy the SIN, thus destroying the idolater, the murderer, the sexual immoral, and leaving a faithful servant Please show me where that is in the bible, I'd really like to believe that.
And even tho he desires and wills that no man perish, that is his righteous feeling towards all of us, but that doesn't mean that we all will be saved one way or another. God cannot go against his own righteousness, even his own laws that the wicked will be punished and perish in the flames of hell.
But pls provide scripture that indicates what you are saying will happen in the second death.
So far from what I've read…I haven't seen any sinner who partakes in the second death getting another chance at righteousness, or going through a refinement process.
Greetings R man….Jodi' post certainly depicts the existence of a mercifull God and is fairly accurate with respect to the circumstances surrounding the second death….The milenium period will be a period of judgement for those who God saw fit to let survive the tribulation,during this period the world will be full of the knowledge of God(as a result of the outpouring of his spirit)…Jesus will preside over this period as King of Kings and lord of lords…Satan will be bound for this period and Gods kingdom/Government will be in control….The unfortunate circumstance will be that there will be those who will reject this Government,they will suffer the second death and will cease to exist for eternity…Every person who ever lived will be given a chance to know God,as I said some will reject him..This information is available throughout the scriptures,it is Gods plan for mankind….
Ok you all misunderstand, please read the posts I quote before assuming.I do believe in a first and second death, and I do believe in a literal hell.
What Cindy was proposing was that hell was a refinement period where sinners go to be purified and made into saints.
I asked her where is that in the bible…because from what I know I do not believe that to be true.
She also proposes a merciful God, but that is choosing reason and logical over scripture.
So yes I believe in a literal Hell, and second death where sinners burn eternally. Whether it is a literal fire or the burning desire to end their self inflicted suffering; I know it is torture for all eternity based on scripture.
Cindy believs it's a refinement process where everyone will eventually be made a saint. That is just….unbiblical.
Greetings R man……Iam not assuming anything nor am I pretending to know what you believe….I can only speak to what I believe….and iam forever trying to prove all things…this forum is an instrument for doing that…Cindy, yes there is a rapture. It's in the bible alot. It is called “Day of the Lord”.You can read in John 14:3-7 and Mark 13:35 1Corith. 15:50-55, Amos,5:18-20 and you can read Ezek. chapter 30. The rapture(Gods wrath) occurs as the wrath of God is poured out,just before Armageddon. Daniel 12:1-2 and at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for thy children of the people;and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. and at that time people will be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,(ones who followed Christ) and some to shame and ever-lasting corrupt.(sinners). There is no second chance once you have died. but if you are still here when the rapture comes you still have that chance to accept him as your Saviour. here is another script. on the rapture;1Corinth. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. so we all die once, wheather it be in our fleshly body or the rapture, and scripture tells us flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God(15:50).(but we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye)This makes me think of why when Jesus was ressurected scriptue says He was flesh and bone. 15; 49 says; and as we have borne the image of the earthy,we shall also bear the image of the heavenly! My pastor says , we will have a glorified body than like Jesus! Awesome!!!!
Nick, hello you could read my post(trinity) on page 31 if you want. You posted earlier “how do we know men go to heaven” Thats what the bible teaches us about. We have two choices :Heaven and hell. And yes there is lots of scriptures on heaven. Thats are purpose of following Christ our Saviour so we can live eternity with him.( I think a few scripts are posted in my last post) God Bless!
Hi KAT,
Yes there are many about heaven but how many say men go to heaven?
It is a popular myth.
JWS think some do-their top brass.nick- could you tell me what that last line in your post means? and men are included in on “children of God.” We are all children of God. May I ask what version of bible you are reading?
Hi KAT,
The jehovahs witnesses have some very odd teachings, one of which is that there are two classes of people and one goes to heaven and another lot stays on earth.They all want to be good enough to make the 144,000 they think go to heaven
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:11) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 28 2009,02:20) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 27 2009,05:28) The second death, as it is called, the one where people are cast into the lake of fire, is the final judgment, a period of instruction and discipline where SIN is put to death, but not the sinner. The sinner is cast into a fire for refinement to melt away and destroy the SIN, thus destroying the idolater, the murderer, the sexual immoral, and leaving a faithful servant Please show me where that is in the bible, I'd really like to believe that.
And even tho he desires and wills that no man perish, that is his righteous feeling towards all of us, but that doesn't mean that we all will be saved one way or another. God cannot go against his own righteousness, even his own laws that the wicked will be punished and perish in the flames of hell.
But pls provide scripture that indicates what you are saying will happen in the second death.
So far from what I've read…I haven't seen any sinner who partakes in the second death getting another chance at righteousness, or going through a refinement process.
Greetings R man….Jodi' post certainly depicts the existence of a mercifull God and is fairly accurate with respect to the circumstances surrounding the second death….The milenium period will be a period of judgement for those who God saw fit to let survive the tribulation,during this period the world will be full of the knowledge of God(as a result of the outpouring of his spirit)…Jesus will preside over this period as King of Kings and lord of lords…Satan will be bound for this period and Gods kingdom/Government will be in control….The unfortunate circumstance will be that there will be those who will reject this Government,they will suffer the second death and will cease to exist for eternity…Every person who ever lived will be given a chance to know God,as I said some will reject him..This information is available throughout the scriptures,it is Gods plan for mankind….
Ok you all misunderstand, please read the posts I quote before assuming.I do believe in a first and second death, and I do believe in a literal hell.
What Cindy was proposing was that hell was a refinement period where sinners go to be purified and made into saints.
I asked her where is that in the bible…because from what I know I do not believe that to be true.
She also proposes a merciful God, but that is choosing reason and logical over scripture.
So yes I believe in a literal Hell, and second death where sinners burn eternally. Whether it is a literal fire or the burning desire to end their self inflicted suffering; I know it is torture for all eternity based on scripture.
Cindy believs it's a refinement process where everyone will eventually be made a saint. That is just….unbiblical.
Hi Rokkaman,First of all, I'm Jodi, not Cindy, Cindy is actually Irene….I know that's a little confusing =).
Anyway, let me explain a few things,
I don't believe that those cast into the fire are the Saints, the Saints are part of the firstfruits who are resurrected at Christ return. They are leaders with Christ and they help judge.
One thing I think that would be truly helpful to you is if you came to know that many words in the bible are mistranslated. The word Satan is a mistranslation, Satan means adversary, and it should be rendered every time as such, and then put in proper context to identify WHO the adversary is. Also the word hell, means grave, the word angel means messenger. Soul in Greek under paganism meant an immortal part of you, but in the Hebrew culture under YHWH it meant breath, or LIFE, and is clearly said numerous times to be something that ceases to exist, it is destroyed, it perishes, it DIES! Also the word translated as ETERNAL is Greek AION, which represents a period of time, not at all, forever and ever!!
The translators of the bible were not under the Spirit of YHWH, they were false teachers and they did a great deal of dis-service to the word of God, twisting, distorting and even making up stuff in their translations. For instance, they added the word 'ONE' after wicked, to make it seem like it was referring to a certain 'being', if you know what I mean. You should really research this stuff. I think your eyes would really begin to be open. Right now your being dooped. I've been there and I guess I should be more understanding to those currently under all the great deception, and be more patient. It's something I'm working on and often not very good at, I have to admit.
Strong's Number: 165 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
aijwvnfrom the same as (104)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Aion1:197,31
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
ahee-ohn' Noun Masculine
Definition1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, ageKing James Word Usage – Total: 128
ever 71, world 38, never + (3364) +&version=kjv 1519 + 3588 6, evermore 4, age 2, eternal 2, miscellaneous 5Jesus Christ died so ALL could be resurrected. You really think that God raised them from the dead so that He could cast them into an eternal tormenting punishment? 80 years of sin deserves an eternity of torment? That's horrible. If that were the truth I would DENY the bible. If anything He would have just left them dead. Of course you probably think that death doesn't actually mean true death, it means the separation of the soul from the body, right? So you already believe that God is punishing a bunch of dead people don't you, and then you believe He gives them a body back so they can then REALLY be punished. I've actually listened to a sermon where the pastor said that how horrible it must be to have a body that never dies but is eternally burned. Ugh……what utter and complete sicko that pastor is. I hope that's truly not on the lines of what you believe Rokkaman, is it?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
