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LU,
'Reflected light',,, you mean, like the Moon? Jesus, analogically, is the Moon to God who , analogically, is the Sun.
Is this your understanding?That the 'Moon' is the 'Light of men'?
Nick,
With God, a thought is as an act.
For this reason he says that a man who looks upon a woman too intently, so as to desire her, has committed adultery.
Yes, just the thought…and think deeply about it and you will also see that it is true: The Spirit of the thought is as an act, and God is Spirit.
Nick, not only a woman, but wealth, power, evil, murder, and so on. But yet, there is repentence, for God knows the heart of a man:
That he was born in sin
And is borne in sin
but desires:
To be born again in Spirit.Hi JA,
Really?
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. They shall be satisfied.
A thought is useless but men will rebel by any possible means.Hi Nick,
I am fast coming to believe that there is something amiss with you.
I think you are just some auto program. Programmed to pick a word out of a sentence and reply from a ist of randomised verses.
I keep asking myself: What on earth or in heaven is Nick meaning from these ditty-bitty line responses? is it a code of some sort. Where is Edj when you need him.
Tell me “Robot Nick”, What is wrong with what I have written? Is it not Scriptural?
Quote Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Erratum: ((The last penultimate line of my original post should have read: “But God desires him”.))
Quote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,15:06) JA, John 17:11-12
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASUJA,
John 17:11-12
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASU
Hi Kathi,It didn't set right with me that Jesus ever had the name Jehovah. So I did some checking into John 17. First, let's break up the version you quoted.
11″…keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me…”
12″…I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them…”
Let me re-phrase it like I read it.
11″…keep them which You have given me in Your name…”
12″…I was keeping them which You have given me in Your name; and I guarded them (in your name)…”
The context is about Jesus not losing one of the children his Father gave him except Judas. He kept them in the protection of the name of JHWH – the name that is a rock and a mighty fortress to anyone who calls on it. But I'm not the only one who reads it like this.
King James Version
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept , and none of them is lost , but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled .Young's Literal Translation
11 and no more am I in the world, and these are in the world, and I come unto Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we; 12 when I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Thy name; those whom Thou hast given to me I did guard, and none of them was destroyed, except the son of the destruction, that the Writing may be fulfilled.Douay-Rheims Translation
11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me: that they may be one, as we also are. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept: and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition: that the scripture may be fulfilled.New Living Translation
11 Now I am departing the world; I am leaving them behind and coming to you. Holy Father, keep them and care for them — all those you have given me — so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I have kept them safe. I guarded them so that not one was lost, except the one headed for destruction, as the Scriptures foretold.Do these translation make sense to you considering the context? Are there other Scriptures where Jesus is said to have the name Jehovah to support your translation of John 17?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ May 05 2010,02:48) LU, 'Reflected light',,, you mean, like the Moon? Jesus, analogically, is the Moon to God who , analogically, is the Sun.
Is this your understanding?That the 'Moon' is the 'Light of men'?
JA,
Reflected light, like when one person soaks up another's thoughts, actions and words and character and passes that on to others, and then the others soak it up and pass it on as well. Jesus is the Light of the world and we can be light also.LU,
You speak in a strange language.
What is the source of Jesus' light? Is it not God Almighty?
And, yes, of course we can be, too.
Was that a trick statement?
Jesus is not a 'reflected light' of God, he is the direct emination of the light from God.
He brings the light of life, the word of God, directly from the Father, not a reflection, for reflections can be distorted, warped, diffused, scattered…but direct eminance is pure, unadulterated, and this is Jesus all over.
Nick,
You are speaking in the flesh…
Man is, at this very time, trying to invoke, actuate, cause to be…, things by power of thought.
First, the thought, then the act.
The act comes from the thought.
The thought is mightier than the act.
For this reason, God condemns man for the wicked things that he thinks.
Did Jesus heal by physical acts but by saying 'believe'. Believing is 'thought'.
Yes, some things require an act, hence the 'spitting and making a cake of mud' to open the eyes of the blind man.
Exceptions, not, for the man still had to first believe that he would be healed.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2010,20:08) Quote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,15:06) JA, John 17:11-12
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASUJA,
John 17:11-12
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASU
Hi Kathi,It didn't set right with me that Jesus ever had the name Jehovah. So I did some checking into John 17. First, let's break up the version you quoted.
11″…keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me…”
12″…I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them…”
Let me re-phrase it like I read it.
11″…keep them which You have given me in Your name…”
12″…I was keeping them which You have given me in Your name; and I guarded them (in your name)…”
The context is about Jesus not losing one of the children his Father gave him except Judas. He kept them in the protection of the name of JHWH – the name that is a rock and a mighty fortress to anyone who calls on it. But I'm not the only one who reads it like this.
King James Version
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept , and none of them is lost , but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled .Young's Literal Translation
11 and no more am I in the world, and these are in the world, and I come unto Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we; 12 when I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Thy name; those whom Thou hast given to me I did guard, and none of them was destroyed, except the son of the destruction, that the Writing may be fulfilled.Douay-Rheims Translation
11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me: that they may be one, as we also are. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept: and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition: that the scripture may be fulfilled.New Living Translation
11 Now I am departing the world; I am leaving them behind and coming to you. Holy Father, keep them and care for them — all those you have given me — so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I have kept them safe. I guarded them so that not one was lost, except the one headed for destruction, as the Scriptures foretold.Do these translation make sense to you considering the context? Are there other Scriptures where Jesus is said to have the name Jehovah to support your translation of John 17?
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,
Yes, I realize that some translations translate the passage with a different emphasis. Here are more that translate the passage as I have considered it:John 17:11-12
NET ©
11 I 1 am no longer in the world, but 2 they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them safe 3 in your name 4 that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. 5 12 When I was with them I kept them safe 1 and watched over them 2 in your name 3 that you have given me. Not one 4 of them was lost except the one destined for destruction, 5 so that the scripture could be fulfilled. 6NIV ©
11 “…I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled…”NASB ©
11 “…I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled…BBE ©
11 And now I will be no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I come to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name which you have given to me, so that they may be one even as we are one. 12 While I was with them I kept them safe in your name which you have given to me: I took care of them and not one of them has come to destruction, but only the son of destruction, so that the Writings might come true.NRSV ©
11 And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.Here is more of the context:
Quote 17:6 “I have revealed 14 your name to the men 15 you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, 16 and you gave them to me, and they have obeyed 17 your word. 17:7 Now they understand 18 that everything 19 you have given me comes from you, 17:8 because I have given them the words you have given me. They 20 accepted 21 them 22 and really 23 understand 24 that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 17:9 I am praying 25 on behalf of them. I am not praying 26 on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those you have given me, because they belong to you. 27 17:10 Everything 28 I have belongs to you, 29 and everything you have belongs to me, 30 and I have been glorified by them. 31 17:11 I 32 am no longer in the world, but 33 they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them safe 34 in your name 35 that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. 36 17:12 When I was with them I kept them safe 37 and watched over them 38 in your name 39 that you have given me. Not one 40 of them was lost except the one destined for destruction, 41 so that the scripture could be fulfilled. 42 17:13 But now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world, so they may experience 43 my joy completed 44 in themselves. 17:14 I have given them your word, 45 and the world has hated them, because they do not belong to the world, 46 just as I do not belong to the world. 47 17:15 I am no
t asking you to take them out of the world, but that you keep them safe 48 from the evil one. 49 17:16 They do not belong to the world 50 just as I do not belong to the world. 51 17:17 Set them apart 52 in the truth; your word is truth. 17:18 Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world. 53 17:19 And I set myself apart 54 on their behalf, 55 so that they too may be truly set apart. 56
Jesus Prays for Believers Everywhere
17:20 “I am not praying 57 only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe 58 in me through their testimony, 59 17:21 that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray 60 that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. 17:22 The glory 61 you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – 17:23 I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, 62 so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.
17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, 63 so that they can see my glory that you gave me because you loved me before the creation of the world 64 . 17:25 Righteous Father, even if the world does not know you, I know you, and these men 65 know that you sent me. 17:26 I made known your name to them, and I will continue to make it known, 66 so that the love you have loved me with may be in them, and I may be in them.”Note this verse:
17:10 Everything 28 I have belongs to you, 29 and everything you have belongs to me, [/B]30 and I have been glorified by them. 31you said:
Quote The context is about Jesus not losing one of the children his Father gave him except Judas. He kept them in the protection of the name of JHWH – the name that is a rock and a mighty fortress to anyone who calls on it. But I'm not the only one who reads it like this. That is only part of the context. Also in the context is that everything that the Father has is the Son's…
So what does 'everything' entail??
Nick,
You speak of the final judgement by Christ.
This is a change of context. Why do you do this?
First the thought, then the act.
The act comes from the thought, therefore the thought is mightier than the act.
You can sin by your thought alone.
To sin by the act involves, first, the thought.Nick, have you not read: Mark 14:38,”Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The Spirit (thought) is willing(Strong, Able) but the Flesh (Action) is weak”?
Now this, is, in context.Nick, why are you trying to bring contention between you and me. I have seen this growing for some time now, and warned you!
Quote (Lightenup @ May 07 2010,18:04) Note this verse:
17:10 Everything 28 I have belongs to you, 29 and everything you have belongs to me, [/B]30 and I have been glorified by them. 31you said:
Quote The context is about Jesus not losing one of the children his Father gave him except Judas. He kept them in the protection of the name of JHWH – the name that is a rock and a mighty fortress to anyone who calls on it. But I'm not the only one who reads it like this. That is only part of the context. Also in the context is that everything that the Father has is the Son's…
So what does 'everything' entail??
Hi Kathi,“Everything”, if taken literally, means “every single thing”. But can it really be that literal?
How about the Father's immortality? Jesus died after he said this.
How about the Father's identity? Is Jesus now Jehovah the Father?
How about the Father's “Almighty-ness”? Is Jesus now the Almighty as he sits at the Almighty's right hand? While there can be many “mighty” ones, there is only one who can be the mightiest of the mighty – the Almighty.
If “everything” doesn't include the Father's identity, then it doesn't include the name that identifies the Father as “the only true God”, either.
Is there another Scripture you can use to support your claim that Jesus has the name YHWH, as this one can be “lost in the translation”?
peace and love,
mikeHi LU,
Jesus gave us his name.
We bring folk into the kingdom in his name.
But we do not become him any more than he became his own father.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2010,16:29) Quote (Lightenup @ May 07 2010,18:04) Note this verse:
17:10 Everything 28 I have belongs to you, 29 and everything you have belongs to me, [/B]30 and I have been glorified by them. 31you said:
Quote The context is about Jesus not losing one of the children his Father gave him except Judas. He kept them in the protection of the name of JHWH – the name that is a rock and a mighty fortress to anyone who calls on it. But I'm not the only one who reads it like this. That is only part of the context. Also in the context is that everything that the Father has is the Son's…
So what does 'everything' entail??
Hi Kathi,“Everything”, if taken literally, means “every single thing”. But can it really be that literal?
How about the Father's immortality? Jesus died after he said this.
How about the Father's identity? Is Jesus now Jehovah the Father?
How about the Father's “Almighty-ness”? Is Jesus now the Almighty as he sits at the Almighty's right hand? While there can be many “mighty” ones, there is only one who can be the mightiest of the mighty – the Almighty.
If “everything” doesn't include the Father's identity, then it doesn't include the name that identifies the Father as “the only true God”, either.
Is there another Scripture you can use to support your claim that Jesus has the name YHWH, as this one can be “lost in the translation”?
peace and love,
mike
Mike,
I agree that 'everything' is not a strict literal 'everything' because the Father cannot give His Son His age, for one thing. Can He give His Son all His might? Possibly and thus the Son could be almighty also. Could He give His Son His identity? NO, not that. Could He give His Son His nature? Yes. Could He give His Son His name? Yes (you gave your son your name…right?) That doesn't make Him Jehovah the Father, but Jehovah, the Son. Just like you have Mike, the father, and Mike, the son. That is an easy and familiar concept.You asked for another scripture and I know that you have been shown the Hebrews 1 scripture where the Son is the Lord that laid the foundation of the earth which is in reference to an OT passage with Yahweh laying the foundation of the earth. I didn't follow the whole conversation but as I remember, you wouldn't accept it. I think that it was solid evidence.
There are more and I will see if I can find them later, not now…yawn! It has been a long day. My oldest graduated from college this morning. 9am graduations should not be. I asked my other sons to graduate after 12 pm noon.
HN keeps me up too late, not to mention YOUR questions. LOL
G'nite!Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2010,17:46) Hi LU,
Jesus gave us his name.
We bring folk into the kingdom in his name.
But we do not become him any more than he became his own father.
Nick,
We are identified with Christ but not as Christ. We have access through His name, but we are not named Jesus.You are right to say that we do not become Jesus and he does not become His own Father. I have never said that He did. I just believe that the Bible tells us that Jesus and the Father have a common name, not because they are the same person but because the Father gave His name to His Son.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2010,01:44) Hi LU,
Same as with Jesus and his God?
No, not the same Nick. The Son has the same name 'Jehovah' as in Jehovah Saves. That didn't make the Son into the person of the Father anymore than your son would be you even if he were named 'Nick.'All,
I believe that Jehovah gave Jesus 'the name that is above all names'.
Jesus acquired 'A New Name'So, there is definitely a name given to Jesus that is most wonderous.
What is that name?…Scriptures does not say!
Did Jesus say that his Father gave him His own name?Any names we think of can only be from conjectures, educated guess, infrerence.
So why could it not be 'Jehovah', 'I AM', ('I Will Be'), YHWH, 'King of kings and Lord of lords'?? One person's honest guess is a good as another person's honest guess. Scriptures does not say.
What name is above All Names?
Whatever it is, Jesus acquires it but that does not make him God, nor his God, he is still Jesus, in nature, in Spirit – Jesus with the 'Most High Name' and 'tothisname' all knees will bend. Is this Worship, no? But it is in Honor, in Praise and in Glory, for, no matter who or what, WORSHIP God and God alone.
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