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Hi LU,
The Son of God is not YAH but YAHSHUA.
He came in his Father's name and did works in that name.Do you work in the name of Jesus? Are you therefore Jesus?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2010,14:26) Hi LU,
The Son of God is not YAH but YAHSHUA.
He came in his Father's name and did works in that name.Do you work in the name of Jesus? Are you therefore Jesus?
Nick,
The Son was Yahweh as the root of David and Yahshua as the branch of David. The Son was given the Father's name. The Father and the Son shared the name of Yahweh. Like many sons even today share the name of their father. The son is the unique begotten Yahweh, the Father was never begotten. There is a difference but the same name. A father/son relationship. They both are one.Many work in the name of Jesus Nick but that does not make them Jesus.
The Son of God bears the name of His Father but that does not make Him, His Father. Again, the Son is the begotten God, the Father is the Most High God.
LU,
Please can you point me to where Jesus was given the name of the Father.
I'm not saying you are wrong – I just want to read it from where you read it from.
Thank you, JustAskin.
LU,
Please can you point me to where Jesus is called the Begotten God.
I'm not saying you are wrong – I just want to read it from where you read it from.
Thank you, JustAskin.
LU,
You say that the Father and the Son are “both One”.
Now, while this is true, did you mean to say it that way. Yes, they are BOTH ONE – the first is One and the second is One, Yes.
Did you mean: They are both ONE is Spiritual Purpose, Both working for the same End? Yes then. They are One in each Other.
Did you mean:
They are BOTH One and The Same Person;
Two personal projections of the ONE Same person
But one, the Father, the SOURCE of ALL Life, the Universe and Everything, All the Majesty and Power and Authority
And the other, lesser, a SON, a perfect projection of the Father BUT not …. help me out here please…
A perfect Projection of himself but NOT the Source of ALL MAJESTY and Power and Authority…Like the Sun is the SOURCE of light in this Solar System
And the Sun Rays are the PROJECTION of that Source of Light.
And the Light contains Life.The Rays are FROM The Sun – Each Ray is a measured projection of the Whole Power and Majesty from the Source.
Without the Sun, there are no Rays –
Without the Rays there is No light –
without the light there is Death!Who can look at the Sun and not go blind : Who can look upon God and not Die
But we can look upon a measured projection of that Source and, yeah, it is good for us.Sorry, is that what you meant, LU:
That the Son is an emination of the Father –
Light from the Source of Light –
Life Saver from the Life Giver?Or have I got it wrong, Maybe? What do you say?
Fear God – Don't be presumptious and look upon the SUN
Glorify the SON:
Bask in the warmth of the Rays;
Honor its life sustaining properties
Acknowledge through the rays, the Power and Majesty of the Source from whence it came.Is there a time when the SUN was NOT Eminating Light but brewing silently (ha!) in Nuclear [under] Fusion – All the Power and Majesty contained within …And then it was – Burst into life (Creating Life) the rays bursting forth – the inconceivably, the limitless, the enormous power and energy blasting out into elemental creativity:
Gravity is created, the elements are formed, each from a measured amount of energy by weight (All physical things are composed from Energy, Immensely Compressed Light to form a physical element. Crack a single atomic element and there is enough energy released to blow the head off a small ant – or was it an Elephant, Scale was never my strong point)So, from the source, the rays brought life – so the rays can quite rightly be said to have 'created' (All things) life and sustains life (and all things). Of course, I'm not talking about the real Sun and it's rays but think analogously and you will get a wonderfully fantastic glorious, awe-inspiring picture of the beginning of creation.
Quote (JustAskin @ May 05 2010,08:37) Please can you point me to where Jesus is called the Begotten God.
Hi JA,John 1:18
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ May 05 2010,08:35) Please can you point me to where Jesus was given the name of the Father.
This one I've never heard. I will await Kathi's answer with you.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2010,21:55) Quote (JustAskin @ May 05 2010,08:37) Please can you point me to where Jesus is called the Begotten God.
Hi JA,John 1:18
mike
Mike is right JA but you will only find the NASB to translate it that way:John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASUHi WJ,
You said:
Quote The word “name” is singular” Mike. If the writer wanted to convey what you say then it would read as you say or read “In the Names” of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, but it doesn't. The word name in my analogy is singular also. So is the word “throne” in Rev. What say you?
You said:
Quote Besides that would contradict what the Apostles did. They baptized in one name and there is only one name or authority that men can be saved. And who's name did they baptize in? The Father's? Or is His name now Jesus Christ? Who annointed the Father?
You said:
Quote The key to Matt 28:19 is verse 18 when Jesus claims he has all authority The Apostles recognized that but apparently the ATs do not, or they just merely give lip service to that. Ah, so the apostles knew that Jesus was God Almighty? Okay, that makes everything all better.
I'm still waiting for you to prove that John knew it in our debate. We'll get to the other NT writers later. (Hint: They all end in the same result)You said:
Quote At any rate my contention is that there is a Trinity spoken of by Jesus own words, but are they one or is there a difference in their respective nature or ontology? That is the question. Yes, Jesus' own words. Words that if Matt 28:19 was legit, the disciples ignored. Hmmm
Unless of course you're right and Jehovah decided that YHWH was NOT the name he was to be remembered by “to time indefinite, even from generation to generation”, like He told Moses in Exodus. So “time indefinite” has run out, for He is now known as Jesus. Is that right, WJ?And the question isn't whether the Son and the Father have the same nature. Of course being directly “caused to exist” by God would mean that Jesus inherited divine qualities. The question is: Who is gullable enough to believe that a son can actually be the same exact being as his father? Like I told Paul, your doctrine is just a confusing, mysterious way of fitting three separate gods into a monotheistic belief system.
You said:
Quote But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the “Lord, (YHWH)” every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Rom 14:10, 11 Paul here is ascribing the Tetragammation YHWH to Jesus by quoting Isa 45:23…
I wonder why the KJV translates “theos” as Christ? This is from the NWT:
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written: “‘As I live,’ says Jehovah, ‘to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to God.’” 12 So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God.
Why would the KJV put “Christ” when the Greek word is clearly “theos”?
The YLT does it too. Interesting.Anyway, the word is “God”, so Paul does not ascribe “JHWH” to Jesus in this verse.
You said:
Quote If Jesus has the Fathers name then that would mean that every quality that the Father possesses would be the same qualities that Jesus and the Holy Spirit possess also. That’s equality, “E-quality” Mike.
How do you figure that? My son shares my name. Does he posess every quality that I have? He's 9 years old. Could he comment on this site with the same knowledge that I posess? Sure, he has inherited many of my traits, but he is not me, nor equal to me.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,14:00) Mike is right JA but you will only find the NASB to translate it that way: John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
Hi Kathi,How about these translations?
John 1:18
King James Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].Douay-Rheims
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.NWT
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[Footnote: Or “the Only Begotten”]
who is at the Father's side, has made him known.There are more, but the new trinitarian trend is to claim that “monogenes” didn't really mean “only begotten”, because that would mean their #2 god was born. And the newer translations reflect that trend.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ May 04 2010,16:35) LU, Please can you point me to where Jesus was given the name of the Father.
I'm not saying you are wrong – I just want to read it from where you read it from.
Thank you, JustAskin.
JA,John 17:11-12
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,14:00) Mike is right JA but you will only find the NASB to translate it that way: John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
Hi Kathi,How about these translations?
John 1:18
King James Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].Douay-Rheims
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.NWT
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[Footnote: Or “the Only Begotten”]
who is at the Father's side, has made him known.There are more, but the new trinitarian trend is to claim that “monogenes” didn't really mean “only begotten”, because that would mean their #2 god was born. And the newer translations reflect that trend.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2010,23:06) Quote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,14:00) Mike is right JA but you will only find the NASB to translate it that way: John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
Hi Kathi,How about these translations?
John 1:18
King James Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].Douay-Rheims
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.NWT
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[Footnote: Or “the Only Begotten”]
who is at the Father's side, has made him known.There are more, but the new trinitarian trend is to claim that “monogenes” didn't really mean “only begotten”, because that would mean their #2 god was born. And the newer translations reflect that trend.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,
Thanks. Much debate has taken place over that one verse.Quote (JustAskin @ May 04 2010,17:21) LU, You say that the Father and the Son are “both One”.
Now, while this is true, did you mean to say it that way. Yes, they are BOTH ONE – the first is One and the second is One, Yes.
Did you mean: They are both ONE is Spiritual Purpose, Both working for the same End? Yes then. They are One in each Other.
Did you mean:
They are BOTH One and The Same Person;
Two personal projections of the ONE Same person
But one, the Father, the SOURCE of ALL Life, the Universe and Everything, All the Majesty and Power and Authority
And the other, lesser, a SON, a perfect projection of the Father BUT not …. help me out here please…
A perfect Projection of himself but NOT the Source of ALL MAJESTY and Power and Authority…Like the Sun is the SOURCE of light in this Solar System
And the Sun Rays are the PROJECTION of that Source of Light.
And the Light contains Life.The Rays are FROM The Sun – Each Ray is a measured projection of the Whole Power and Majesty from the Source.
Without the Sun, there are no Rays –
Without the Rays there is No light –
without the light there is Death!Who can look at the Sun and not go blind : Who can look upon God and not Die
But we can look upon a measured projection of that Source and, yeah, it is good for us.Sorry, is that what you meant, LU:
That the Son is an emination of the Father –
Light from the Source of Light –
Life Saver from the Life Giver?Or have I got it wrong, Maybe? What do you say?
Fear God – Don't be presumptious and look upon the SUN
Glorify the SON:
Bask in the warmth of the Rays;
Honor its life sustaining properties
Acknowledge through the rays, the Power and Majesty of the Source from whence it came.Is there a time when the SUN was NOT Eminating Light but brewing silently (ha!) in Nuclear [under] Fusion – All the Power and Majesty contained within …And then it was – Burst into life (Creating Life) the rays bursting forth – the inconceivably, the limitless, the enormous power and energy blasting out into elemental creativity:
Gravity is created, the elements are formed, each from a measured amount of energy by weight (All physical things are composed from Energy, Immensely Compressed Light to form a physical element. Crack a single atomic element and there is enough energy released to blow the head off a small ant – or was it an Elephant, Scale was never my strong point)So, from the source, the rays brought life – so the rays can quite rightly be said to have 'created' (All things) life and sustains life (and all things). Of course, I'm not talking about the real Sun and it's rays but think analogously and you will get a wonderfully fantastic glorious, awe-inspiring picture of the beginning of creation.
JA,
No, I did not mean that they are the same person. I believe they are united as one.I have heard the analogy of the sun and the rays before. I think the Son's light is more of a reflected light.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2010,23:10) Hi LU,
So when did he become YAH and no longer BE YAHSHUA?
Nick,
I think the Son was Yahweh first and then became Yahshua which means Yahweh Saves. The Bible does not tell us when. Sons are named typically when they are born.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2010,00:38) Hi LU,
Is thinking things enough to declare them?
God is I AM WHO AM and there is no other God.
Nick,
There is no other God except the Lord God with the Outstretched Arm. The Outstretched Arm is the Son, called Jehovah Saves.
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