Dying with christ

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 11 2011,08:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 10 2011,18:23)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 10 2011,06:08)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 09 2011,18:05)

Irene,

Scripture declares we will succeed in doing away with sin if we strive through faith to defeat it. It is just one more miracle that Jesus performs by the power of God. But in order to defeat sin through faith you must believe you will defeat it. Your faith is not in your own power but rather in the power of God who created the universe and thus can change you so you no longer follow the human impulse to do evil.

Take the plunge and believe that God will overcome your sinful impulses and thus you will become fully mature in the Anointed One.

God is the artist and you are his work of art. He will finish with you when he determines that the time is correct. Believe and persevere in that belief as he can and will stop you from falling.

Faith is a tool that can move mountains, especially the ones Satan places in your path.

Kerwin! I agree that those who stay close to Jesus, will succeed,
However there are those who will not, and follow Satan right into the Lake of Fire……Otherwise there is no sense in having a Lake of Fire is there?
Just like I don't believe that all Commandments have been nailed on the cros, like Tim Kraft is teaching…..And the New Age religion too…..Jesus gave us that Great Commandment and also magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount…..I find it foolish to believe that on one hand Jesus gave us the Great Commandments and on the other hand He nailed it on the cross……You say take the plunge and believe….My friend I would not even talk this way, or care about this, if I would still not know….However, if you believe that you have completely overcome sin, watch out, Satan is at you feet…be humble instead, kind, loving and caring…..in this there is no Law….

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

the law Christ nailed on the cross was the the condemnation of the law,
that Christ sacrifice removed so that we can be saved without the law.

but we most become slaves in Christ to do good and have that faith that will save us.

Pierre

Yes, Pierre! I believe that too. But what Kerwin was saying that all of the Law was done away with by Christ's scarifies, and that I don't believe at all. It is the Animal Scarifies that He did away with, and became our perfect Scarifies…he is now our Mediator to go through Him directly to do Throne of God, no more animal Sacrifices needed…..
Peace and Love Irene

Irene

yes you right,

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
Heb 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Heb 10:18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

on this it can not be interpret in a different way unless you deny Christ sacrifice

Pierre

February 10, 2011 at 8:50 pm#235862

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 10 2011,17:39)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2011,01:34)

Shimmer ………Good post, but i would replace the Angel thing with Spirit but either way it follows the same line Sis.

peace and love……………………………………….gene

Gene,

I tend to believe angel is a mistranslation of spirit as what is described sounds more like a spirit than an angel. Shimmer may agree since she used it in regards to the tenet of two impulses of man.

Hi Kerwin.

A couple of years ago, I had a problem I couldn't deal with. So I became angry, the anger turned to drinking (not much but a few times I drank too much). Anyway, I read the Shephard, and I prayed for forgiveness, and I prayed that the bad Angel go, and the good Angel come, and I have felt (most of the time) free of (that type of) anger ever since. So I used the word Angel.
(Just thought i'd say)

February 11, 2011 at 5:08 am#235877

Participant

Shimmer,

I am one that believes angels tempt us to do what is right just as devils tempt us to do what is evil. Never the less it is our spirit which decides which bait we choose to take. If our spirit is inclined toward evil at that time we chase the bait of the devil but if it is inclined toward good then we chase the bait of the angel. I cannot say that my believe that angels is based on scripture except to say that I believe that God's angels work in ways similar though opposing Satan's.

God listens to the spirit of what we say and not the words and so if we mispeak he still knows what we mean.

February 11, 2011 at 5:38 am#235878

Participant

To all,
I agree believers are refined just as these scriptures state:

Zechariah 13:9

This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’”

Malachi 3:2

But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

1 Peter 1:3-7

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Revelation 3:18

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

I also agree if you truly hate sin then you would remove your eye if it caused you to sin. It does not. Your corrupt spirit, i.e. old man does. That old man will lead you to Gehenna, which is the death of the soul and body. In addition a righteous man seeks to avoid temptation so if a television show causes him to be tempted to do evil he avoids it as if it we poison.

As forgiveness believers are forgiven any sin that occurs previous to their becoming fully mature in Christ just as this passage from Romans declares.

Romans 3:31-26

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Jesus warns us not to look back after setting our hands to the plow. We set our hands to the plow when we declare him as King of our lives and thus declare we will seek to be righteous even as God is righteous. One looks back when he chooses to intentionally violate that pledge by willfully sinning. This does not include sin that occurs because of immaturity in Christ and thus is a result of the bonding to sin that is being broken as you mature. If I understand correctly some sins are the result of what is basically an addiction believers are weaned off while others are the result of non-addicted behavior. The later is sinning against the Spirit of holiness that is received when entering the new covenant.

All the above scriptures are from the New International Version of Scripture copyrighted 2010.

February 11, 2011 at 8:18 am#235881

Participant

I completly agree with your posts above Kerwin.

February 11, 2011 at 8:50 am#235883

Participant

Quote Charles Spurgeon

“Reckon then that to acquire soul-winning power, you will have to go through mental torment and soul distress. You must go into the fire if you are going to pull others out of it, and you will have to dive into the floods if you are going to draw others out of the water. You cannot work a fire escape without feeling the scorch of the conflagration, nor man a lifeboat without being covered with the waves.”

February 11, 2011 at 9:07 am#235884

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 11 2011,22:08)

Shimmer,

God listens to the spirit of what we say and not the words and so if we mispeak he still knows what we mean.

kerwin

those scriptures are not true

Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

Jas 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
Jas 1:3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.
Jas 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

this does not agree with you

Pierre

February 11, 2011 at 9:33 am#235885

Participant

Terra, you can make the scriptures say whatever you want them to say. The closer you are to God the less there is to know, and this I know.

I also know that whatever is said here will be opposed by you. True?

And Terra, do you still believe Jesus was [not] risen in the flesh? See, you believe JW literature over the words of Jesus him self.

February 12, 2011 at 5:05 am#235903

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All……….WE are NOW being JUDGED , because Judgment begins at the House of God. If we sin willfully after we come into the knowledge of GOD and recieved forgiveness for our sins , the sacrifice of Christ will not cover them any longer, we inter into Judgment and recieve (NOW) intense Judgment (FIRE) That will work to purge out the sine in us, Just as Fire purifies Gold and Silver and forces the dross out leaving the pure gold, so does GOD intense fiery Judgements do to us. “FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE”.

peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene

February 12, 2011 at 5:17 am#235904

Participant

Pierre,

I am stating that God tempts us to do good and the scripture you quoted states he does not tempt us to do evil. There is no disagreement between the two.

February 12, 2011 at 7:59 am#235913

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2011,22:17)

Pierre,

I am stating that God tempts us to do good and the scripture you quoted states he does not tempt us to do evil. There is no disagreement between the two.

Kerwin

I believe that God does not tempt us in anyway niether good or bad,that choice we all have to take.

what God has done is given his word (scriptures) to be understood by those who believe in him and the one he has send.

and on that we will be judged.

so that it is by faith that we are saved ,but we do not have faith if we do not produce the trust and obedience to that faith.

it like someone like to become a carpenter thats good ,prove it ,BY WORKING IN THE TRADE,

Pierre

February 12, 2011 at 8:04 am#235914

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 12 2011,02:33)

Terra, you can make the scriptures say whatever you want them to say. The closer you are to God the less there is to know, and this I know.

I also know that whatever is said here will be opposed by you. True?

And Terra, do you still believe Jesus was [not] risen in the flesh? See, you believe JW literature over the words of Jesus him self.

shimmer

yes i still believe that Christ was not resuscitate in his old body that died ,

because of the reason of the offering of his body for us,

if i am wrong God will make me see it later.

and the scripture i showed to Kerwin in James.1;…,can not be twisted ,or can you ??

Pierre

February 12, 2011 at 2:38 pm#235920

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All…….This thread is about dying with Christ, and what does that mean to us, lets try to stay on subject please. what does it mean to DIE (WITH) CHRIST. To me that means we must put our WILLS to (DEATH) NOW, just as Jesus did HIS WILL> And (DO) the WILL of GOD. “FOR THE SON OF “MAN” CAME NOT TO DO HIS WILL BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT HIM”, and again, “IT IS WRITTEN IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOKS, I HAVE COME TO DO THY WILL O GOD”, and again, THY KINGDOM COME (how, by) THY WILL BEING (DONE)” and again “FATHER REMOVE THIS CUP FROM ME, NEVER THE LESS NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE”, and again “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO (NOTHING) OF HIMSELF” and again “WHOSOEVER WILL SAVE (HIS) LIFE SHALL LOOSE IT , BUT WHOSOEVER WILL LOSE HIS LIFE FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL SAY IT. Remember Jesus said “WHOSOEVER OVERCOMES (EVEN) AS I HAVE another words in the (EXACT SAME WAY HE OVERCAME. “I WILL GRANT TO SIT WITH ME IN MY KINGDOM, EVEN AS I OVERCAME AND AM SITED IN MY FATHER KINGDOM. Now if we are (DYING With CHRIST) we must die to (OURSELVES) and put our wills to death Just as or in the (SAME WAY) Jesus put HIS WILL to DEATH. and to me that is what dying with CHRIST IS ALL ABOUT. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………….gene

February 15, 2011 at 5:06 am#236047

Participant

Gene,

We have not necessary vered off the topic as when Jesus speaks of overcomming the world he means the desires of this would which is the temptation to do evil.

Pierre is addressing the question of who God is. That important to having faith in the one true God as a God that has different characteristics than the one true God is a false God.

Still I will try to knit our conversation of temptation with your main point.

February 15, 2011 at 5:52 am#236051

Participant

Pierre,

I may of confused you since I was unaware there is a negative connotation to the word “temptation” in our present culture. I will use the synonym draw instead as God appoints his angelic messengers to draw us into doing good while Satan appoints his angelic messengers to draw un into doing evil.

I agree that God does not draw us into doing evil but I disagree with you on at least one of your points since I am convinced he does draw us into doing good.

I am not sure if he uses angels for that purpose but since they are used to draw us into doing evil it seems to be a reasonable possibility.

Jesus died that all men will have the opportunity to receive and live by the new covenant and so receive the new spirit and walk according to it’s teaching us how to listen to the righteous angel's invitations.

Edited for spelling corrections and rewording for easier understqnding.

February 16, 2011 at 4:01 am#236117

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2011,22:52)

Pierre,

I agree that God does not draw us into doing evil but I disagree with you on at least one of your points since I am convinced he does draw us into doing good.

I am not sure if he uses angels for that purpose but since they are used to draw us into doing evil it seems to be a reasonable possibility.

Edited for spelling corrections and rewording for easier understqnding.

Kerwin

it does not change anything ,some are called but most of us are drawn not as a act coming from God but from our hearths for justice and wen we listen to the gospel of Christ it draws us to God because of our desire for justice and how more we learn how more we will learn to die for that cause just like Christ.
Mt 5:4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Mt 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Mt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Mt 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

to die for someone, you have to know him otherwise your dying ,could be for the wrong cause.

we are not drawn into good but we are made aware of it ,there is a difference.

but at all times it is our decision and choice wish road we will take.

just as God told Cain before he killed is brother.
just as Jesus told the Jews what will happen to Jerusalem and is people.

God supply the info what we do with it is up to us.

Pierre

February 16, 2011 at 8:23 am#236126

Participant

Pierre,

The B-attitudes are encouraging promises to those who truly make Jesus their Lord by obeying all he teaches. I do not disagree with you that it is our essential being that chooses to follow the lure of faith that God places into our life. This is why Jesus states blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be fill. It is obvious that those who do not hunger and thirst to be righteous as Jesus is righteous will not receive the promise of being filled with righteousness.

When God places an angel in our life to call us to do what is right is our essential being guided by our spirit that chooses whether or not to do as God calls us to do.

Before the entering the new covenant we only have a spirit that is enslaved to sin as a guide but afterward we have the Spirit of Christ which is truly free of slaver to sin as a guide. It is our essential self which chooses whether the old spirit or new spirit will be our guide.

Reference:

John 6

February 16, 2011 at 10:49 am#236131