Dual Nature of Christ

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2010,23:36)

Mike Boll,

Georg believes scripture states that Jesus only had a human nature while on earth and a godly nature before and after. You say otherwise. Do you have scriptural support for your position.

Hi Kerwin,

Could you remind me what I said about Jesus having two natures on earth? I don't remember saying that. He had the nature of God, but then became flesh and had the nature of man. He is now back in heaven as a spirit being.

mike

November 23, 2010 at 4:02 am#226115

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 23 2010,16:45)

To All………..Notice WE. WE, We have to, We Must ,WE Do, WE Chose , We, we we or I, I , I. Seems God is not (really) in the Picture but the WE Must and I Must and the Self WILLED Must and The So called “FREE WILL” MUST. It appears Jesus died in vain, and who need GOD'S Help because it all up the WE'S and the I musts and the “FREE WILLS” of SELF>

Self Glorifying has no part with GOD or His Work (IN) His Childern or His work in the MAN Jesus, Who said “THE FATHER (IN) HE DOES THE WORKS” Jesus did not ever have the nature of GOD until he recieved it at the Jordan river after He was Baptized. With that new Nature He recieved He was able to put his captivated WILL to death and by the power of the Holy Spirit (IN) him chose GOD'S WILL over HIS WILL in all He did and Accomplished Just (EXACTLY) as we also can do with GODS Spiirt guiding our hearts and minds. It is all a matter of FAITH (IN) GOD The Father not the SELF or anyone Else no not even IN Jesus, because Jesus said He could do Nothing of Himself, and Also told us the GOD who is the ROCK was the one who would Build the Church.

“FOR you are save by GRACE and that (NOT) of or FROM YOURSELVES” it is a (GIFT) from God. Do not let egotistical self centered people move God out of the true Picture of you salvation> Jesus' old nature was conquered by His New Nature He recieved from GOD at the Gordan river , Just as Our old natures can be changes to a new nature by the (EXACT SAME PROCESS).

Paul said “tell me this he that does Miricales among you does he do it by (WORKS) of Law or by hearing of your FAITH”. Why don't these (egotist) tell us what miracles are being done among them. Answer (NONE) because they seek righteousness on their own terms by their falsely assumed “FREE WILLS” WillS that operate “FREE” alright “FREE” from GODS WILL, that is for sure. IMO

peace and love to all who seek GOD honestly and truthfully………………………………………..gene

gene

YOU have to do nothing,YOU have to follow nobody,YOU have to believe in nothing,YOU have to know nothing,You are born in sin,YOU can stay in sin,YOU<YOU.

YOU like this word better??

your freedom is what you want to make it,

Pierre

November 23, 2010 at 4:20 am#226117

942767

Participant

The fact the Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and is the Christ, the Son of the Living God did not mean that he had two natures. He was and is a man, no, not just any man but nevertheless a man.

He was born into this world a living soul. The breath of God equates to the Holy Spirit which is the life of God. It is through the Word of God that His spirit was formed as he learned to apply the Word of God in His daily life. It is through faith in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit gives life to our soul.

Love in Christ,
Marty

November 23, 2010 at 5:02 am#226127

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 23 2010,07:06)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2010,23:36)

Mike Boll,

Georg believes scripture states that Jesus only had a human nature while on earth and a godly nature before and after. You say otherwise. Do you have scriptural support for your position.

Hi Kerwin,

mike

Mike Boll,

I will check but perhaps I m,isunderstood you.

November 23, 2010 at 5:18 am#226128

Participant

Mike Boll,

This is the post I address with my initial post in this thread.

You wrote:

Quote

To Kerwin and Adam:

I believe you folks are missing the point of Matthew 22:44-46. The Pharisees were expecting the Messiah to be ONLY the SON of David. Jesus let them know that if the Messiah was ONLY the SON of David, David would not ever call him “My Lord”. Look at his question. “45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

Jesus is hinting that the Messiah is not REALLY the son of David, but only according to the flesh, as affirmed by Paul:

NIV Romans 1:3
regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,

Now add this teaching of Jesus to Isaiah 11:10,

Isaiah 11:10
In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.

You see Adam? Even the OT teaches of the pre-existence of Jesus. And that's not even mentioning Proverbs 8 or Micah 5.

I wise man (Pierre ) reminded me that there are no contradictions in scripture – only things that we don't fully understand yet.

You think the NT says Jesus created anything? Look again. And use the Greek words, not the English translation. All things are FROM God, THROUGH Jesus. (1 Cor 8:6) And that is all that the NT teaches, unless you read a trinitarian translation that uses the word “BY” instead of “THROUGH”. But in using the word “BY”, the trinitarians don't think they are going against the OT that says only God created……..for they think Jesus IS that God who created. But that's just the fantasy world they live in.

Can either one of you guys answer me about the bread that CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN? The Jews definitely recognized that Jesus was saying he came down from heaven, so why don't you?

Adam, I do understand your confusion. But understand this:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

You don't have to understand it all right now. Just trust that our God is in control………and trust Him completely.

Adam, if there are “contradictions” or anything else you want to discuss with me, hit me up. But I like things “one point or scripture at a time”. So if there's something in that long post you specifically want me to address, please post it again in a shorter post.

peace and love,
mike

November 23, 2010 at 6:40 am#226137

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,21:20)

Love in Christ,
Marty

Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Pierre

November 23, 2010 at 7:50 am#226144

Participant

To all,

See Romans 1:2-4 where the human nature is contrasted with the Spirit of holiness. That is where I and Mike Boll see two natures mentioned.

This corresponds to the sinful nature (flesh) and Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:16-24.

2 Peter 1:4 tells us believers share in the divine nature.

If believers do the Jesus the Anointed does and thus the divine nature is his second nature.

November 23, 2010 at 7:51 am#226145

Participant

Mike Boll,

You state that scripture declares Jesus is the Son of David according to the flesh and this is true. If you look at Romans 1:3 you will see it states the same about him being the Son of David according to the human nature. Human nature and flesh in this sense are synonyms.

According to 2 Peter 1:4 we learn that believers share in the divine nature. We know that the divine nature, spirit, makes us sons of God, Romans 8:15. We also know that if we live by the Spirit then we do not fulfill the desires of the sinful nature, Galatians 5:16, and thus escape the corruption of the world, 2 Peter 1:4.

Jesus escaped the corruption of the world, John 16:33.

So you are according to your human nature a descendant of your father David (Not the king of that name).

Your interpretation of Matthew 22 does not fit comfortably with me as Jesus is the Son of David. I also know according to the spirit Jesus is the Son of God but I do not see how to tie that into that particular teaching.

November 24, 2010 at 12:10 am#226210

942767

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2010,16:40)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2010,21:20)

Love in Christ,
Marty

Pierre

Yes, born of God through Faith in His Word. When we are born of God, or born again, the Spirit of God gives life to our soul through faith in His Word.

Love in Christ,
Marty

November 24, 2010 at 2:49 am#226235

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2010,17:51)

Hi Kerwin,

Jesus asked, “Who's son is the Messiah?” The Pharisees answered, “David's.”

Did Jesus tell them that they were right? Or did he teach them something else?

Jesus told them, “If David calls him “my Lord”, then how can he be his son?”

So here's what you have to figure out on your own Kerwin.

1. The Pharisees thought the Messiah would be the son of David.

2. Jesus did NOT say, “Oh, you're right!”, but in fact corrected their flawed understanding.

Am I misspeaking here? Do you read it to say Jesus AGREED with their answer or not?

peace and love
mike

November 24, 2010 at 7:34 am#226293

Participant

Mike Boll,

Jesus did ask the Pharisees whose Son is the Messiah and they answered correctly that the Anointed One is the Son of David. His question is related to the scripture he quoted but he was not stating that the Christ is not the Son of David. He was thus stating that in addition to being the Son of David the Messiah was something more. You are he was the physical Son of God while I argue he would become King of everything in heaven and earth.

In either case we are not stating Jesus corrected their flawed understanding so much as stating he added to their incomplete understanding.

I do view him as the spiritual Son of God but I am not sure how one would understand that from the scripture Jesus quoted. I would say the same with him being the physical Son of God as the scripture Jesus quoted was about authority and not about relationship.

His comment associated with the quoted scripture was about relationship but also must have been about authority as that is the topic of the quoted scripture. How do you tie authority in with your understanding?

November 24, 2010 at 5:57 pm#226336

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 25 2010,00:34)

Mike Boll,

In either case we are not stating Jesus corrected their flawed understanding so much as stating he added to their incomplete understanding.

Kerwin

you see now you may learn something,Mike and I agree but you do not your interpretation is of men,

why is it i say this ?? because you do not see Christ as the true son of God as he preexisted this changes you view and perception,

do you understand now ,why people see things differently?there base are not the same.

Pierre

November 28, 2010 at 6:56 pm#226945

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 24 2010,17:34)

His question is related to the scripture he quoted but he was not stating that the Christ is not the Son of David.

Hi Kerwin,

So if you said to me, “Jesus is God”, and I responded, “Jesus calls God 'my God', so how then can Jesus be God?”, you would take that to mean that I agreed that Jesus was God but just expanded on it?

mike

November 28, 2010 at 8:28 pm#226957

Participant

Mike Boll,

There is but one God who is Lord even of Jesus and that makes a comparison involving God invalid.

I already demonstrated to you that a father can be subject to his child if God elevates the child over the father. With that evidence in mind lets look as what Jesus' question was in response to the scripture he quoted.

Jesus asked “David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

We know that scripture declares the Anointed is the Son of David and The father can be subject to the son and that scripture cannot be broken. Knowing this Jesus is not contradicting scripture it follows he is making another point.

To figure out his other point I remembered scripture declares that David is king of the combined Israel and Judea and thus would be equal to any son that inherited his throne. Psalms 110:1 states he is subject to the Anointed. Knowing this it is clear the throne of the Anointed is superior to David's throne.

November 28, 2010 at 11:15 pm#226961

Baker

Participant

Kerwin, let me come and see if we cannot shed any light on the problem. We should all know that there is but one Almighty God, while Jesus also is called God in Hebrew 1:8 and Jiohn1:1 and Rev.19:13-16. Therefore He is the Mighty God. God and The Word of God, are titles….You will also find in the Old Testament LORD is Almighty God in all capital letters, while Jesus is Lord. That besides other Scriptures is why I worship Almighty God only and honor Jesus as
I see Jesus coming back as

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Irene

November 29, 2010 at 2:13 am#226975

Participant

All

you can see that KERWIN never answers your question ,but find a way to ask another question instead,

so he does not exchange what he has learned or what he now thinks.

he is a selfish feeder on our agape

Pierre

November 29, 2010 at 3:57 am#226988

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2010,06:28)

Mike Boll,

There is but one God who is Lord even of Jesus and that makes a comparison involving God invalid.

Jesus asked “David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

Hi Kerwin,

I do understand what you are saying here. But I disagree. I think Jesus was saying something similar to what he said about Mary. When told his mother was outside wanting to see him, he said that those who do the will of his God were his mother.

He didn't really consider Mary as the “cause of his life” because she wasn't. She was merely a vessle through which he had to pass to come as flesh according to his God's will. Likewise, Jesus isn't really a “son” of David at all, for he existed way before David.

NIV Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,

Luke knew the truth Kerwin, so he added “or so it was thought”. Jesus' “stepfather” Joseph was a descendant of David THROUGH Solomon, which would put Jesus in line for the throne of David. But we all know that Joseph was NOT the father of Jesus, right?

Mary was also a descendant of David, but THROUGH NATHAN who was never King of Israel. And also, a person's geneaology was not ever traced through women, but men.

I hear what you're saying Kerwin. But hear what I'm saying please. Jesus was telling the Pharisees that if he would have in fact been a LITERAL descendant of David, David would never have called him “my Lord”. He is letting them in on a secret. He is spelling it out in words their culture would have let them understand that he was not REALLY the son of David, but according ONLY to the flesh.

They did not fully understand what he was saying but were not able or willing to ask him any more questions after that because they could not refute the logic of their culture that said a Patriarch does not call one of his descendants “my Lord”.

And that also fits in with John the Baptist saying the one who comes after me existed before me – even though according to the flesh, John existed first.

Kerwin, for Jesus to be truly considered a “son of David”, his father would have had to come from the line of David. Jesus' father is God. Did God come from the line of David?

peace and love,
mike

November 30, 2010 at 12:22 pm#227123

Participant

Mike Boll,

When Jesus spoke of his mother and brothers as being spiritually related to him and not physically he was speaking metaphysically. So are you saying that Jesus is stating that David is not his metaphysical father and as evidence to support that point out that he called the Anointed his Lord. If that is the case I am not following his argument. Perhaps there is information I do not posses. Could you detail the reasoning you believe Jesus used to reach that conclusion?

We both believe Mary was not the cause of Jesus’ life. You believe he was a immaterial being that took on the body conceived in her womb and I believe he was created by God, from part of her in the same way Eve was created from a part of Adam. I also believe he unlike Eve was formed in the womb of a woman, i.e. Mary.

I am not sure that there are not exceptions to the rule that genealogy is only traced through the Mother as:

1)In cases that there is no male kin the females inherit according to the Law of Mosses.
2)The genealogy of Mary is also included in scripture as well as that of Joseph.
3)Some Jewish traditions have national decent through the mother meaning they have a Gentile father and thus would be tribeless unless they also inherit that through their mother.
4)Timothy was circumcised because his mother was a Jew, even though his father was a Gentile.

I am a son of my father is because of my flesh and not my soul. No one for that matter is a descendent of another for any other reason than their body. The soul is created as soon as God gives the body life according to my beliefs and is the essential person. I cannot say it is literally related to the father of its body though I believe scripture infers that when it states a person is. Scripture states that about Jesus’ relationship to David. It does not state just his body is related.

I am short of time and therefore must stop here. I plan on addressing this further in the future, God willing.

November 30, 2010 at 1:40 pm#227127

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Mike…………So Jesus then lied when he said he was the offspring of DAVID in Revelations. Because according to you he was not really right? He was letting those Pharisees on to a “Little Secret” Right? And by the way John did not say he existed before him , he said he was Preferred before him as i recall. Seem it is still true you preexistences have no problem changing scripture to suit you dogmas.

It is amazing how Preexistences can twist and turn and change and add and what ever it takes to force their beliefs on others, But not able to Produce (ONE) CLEAR SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS “JESUS EXISTED AS A LIVING BEING BEFORE HIS BERTH ON EARTH”< NOT EVEN ONE. Just conjectures and suppositions but not ONE (SPECIFIC) SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS "HE PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON EARTH AS A BEING", Just ONE would DO. IMO

At least T8 was honest once to admit that even Though he believes Jesus did exist before his berth on earth, he was honest enough to admit there were not (specific scriptures) to specifically said that. But you people won't even admit there is none that (specifically) says that. IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

December 1, 2010 at 3:18 am#227201