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Hi Jodi,
1 Cor 15.42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It would s sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
But you can not know of the natural earthly body?
Hi Nick,
Let’s clarify what perfect means we do in fact see that word used in scripture,
perfect -transliterated word Teleios
- brought to its end, finished
- wanting nothing necessary to completeness
- perfect
- that which is perfect
- consummate human integrity and virtue
- of men
Nick you said, “Perfection of man is not on the agenda of God.”
You couldn’t be more wrong, it is precisely the agenda of God, as perfection equates to being a man whose human spirit is in complete unity with the Will of God.
Scripture says,
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 19: 21 Jesus said unto him,If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly*; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrew 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hi Jodi,
Perhaps you misunderstood.
Men are the wayward children of earthly Adam.
They cannot bring themselves to perfection despite their best religious efforts.
God has shown us the perfect man in Jesus, cleansed by obedience to the law and sanctified by the Spirit of grace.
Now salvation for us is by following him into rebirth into union with him and union with His Father.
He is full of grace and truth and in him we have access to the throne of grace.
But we are to believe in God and also in the Son of God.
Relegating the words of Jesus to be lying and deceitful superstition is not acceptable to God.
Nick,
Gehenna is the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned.
Jesus was using a local place where things are burned and reduced to ashes to describe where the wicked go.
Brute beast who know not God but follow their own carnal nature and sin from WITHIN as Jesus says, I Jesus picked a perfect symbol to represent where the wicked go and are reduced to ashes.
Correct statement you gave Nick, “Eternal life is not the natural right of created men but is of the nature of God and those with whom God shares it.”
But having immortality like Adam and Eve did, is not the same as being given immortality for an eternity. They sinned and death entered, before that they did not know death, meaning they did not know aging, they did not know pain, sweat, blood, and tears, illness, disease, etc.. all these things came AFTER they sinned, as sin equals death (which is a package deal with lot’s of things), before that all they knew within their bodies was the LIFE of God, without CURSES.
Nick, Adam could have very well not experienced the curses of illness or disease, but he did in fact experience growing old which he did not have prior to his sin. God said if you sin you shall surely die, but they did not die right away. If they had not sinned they would have never died. Once they sinned their bodies were given deterioration. Do you know how genetics work Nick?… it explains how a pure body without defect could live a very long time, but defects get passed on through generations, defects occur through CURSES, this is why by the time of Moses God had to install a law against incest!
Nick you said,
“Did Jesus not come and speak to Saul?
Thomas put his fingers into the holes in his hands and put his hand into the hole in his side?
Do you think these injuries are still open wounds?”
Why are you asking me a question to something I showed you because you were in error? I am the one that pointed out that Jesus SPOKE to Paul but Paul NEVER saw Jesus. But now you are asking me “did Jesus come and speak to Paul”? Nick get a grip man!
Jesus had a scare, and do you realize the purpose of that? It was to show that he in fact was pierced as Isaiah said he would be. He was showing a fulfilled prophecy, which equates to establishing deeper faith in God. No I think they are healed wounds, but he just might return with a scare in order to bring people into faith as was necessary for some prior.
Hi Nick,
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Jesus denied the desires of the WEAK flesh, Paul knew Jesus as a man who did indeed have WEAK FLESH but he also knew that he denied it to follow the will of God and not the will of man. This is truly INSPIRING, as it shows the POWER of God’s Spirit and what the Spirit can accomplish in WEAK FLESH. Paul is teaching the power of God in weak flesh, and how NOW with Jesus being raised from the dead he no longer has the temptation of weak flesh. Jesus has freedom from weak flesh and the temptation that he had to deny through what weak flesh brings.
Paul many many times refers to flesh as representing temptation through weak flesh. He states “AFTER the flesh”, which is expressing exactly what I am talking about, which is men going after the flesh, going after the temptation it brings. Flesh that fears death serves itself seeking survival. Flesh that fears death seeks to serve itself, it thinks naturally that it has to eat to live. Immortal flesh has eternal life and thus it does not seek to keep it alive, it does not need to serve it in order to stay alive. We have to eat food in order to stay alive, some might steal in order to stay alive, and others might even kill to stay alive. Jesus does not have to eat to stay alive, he eats because God designed tastebuds and delicious fruit to taste.
Flesh is not the problem, death in the flesh is. The mind in the flesh is also a problem when it does not follow God’s will.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Not having weak flesh that draws you into temptation but powerful flesh is certainly something that is new. The animals that are changed and will no longer eat meat and be territorial, and be wild and viscous become knew too.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Christ received the intended firstfruits of the Spirit upon being raised. But you want to say that he received it later.
Scriptures speak that he received glory UPON his resurrection from the dead, but you want to say he received his glorious body sometime later. The point of all scripture about his glory is in reference to the MOMENT he was raised from the dead, not what you think of some glory that came later that is not writtten.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
This is talking about when Jesus was in fact raised from the dead, not what occurred some time later that there is no scriptural account of, it is only something you falsely presume. The flesh was sown in corruption but it was raised in incorruption, the flesh was sown in dishonor RAISED in GLORY.
Nick you say that Jesus WAS not RAISED in GLORY, his glory came later. You say that his body was something that became an insult to Jesus as it was a temporary body that men wanted to poke at. The TRUTH is you have spoken offensively, as clearly the word says he was RAISED in GLORY. He was RAISED in POWER.
Nick scripture CLEARLY states that UPON, UPON, UPON being raised from the dead he was raised a SPIRITUAL BODY, RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, RAISED in GLORY, RAISED IN POWER, and then we see from scripture Jesus makes a POINT to PROVE he is flesh and bones by having people touch him after he was raised in glory and power and WITH a SPIRITUAL BODY!!
Hi Jodi,
Did Jesus teach according to the pagan superstitions of the time
or did the Holy Spirit teach truth through him?
Hi Jodi,
So you think the Lord of all had a scare?
Fear?
Any you think the wound would heal without blood supply?
Some sort of magical change to show Thomas the old wound?
Faith does not need to make stuff up to cover the gaps in ideology.
Hi Jodi,
Do you think that the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels is just a rubbish tip?
Is this not the place where the body and soul of humans too can be destroyed?
Hi Jodi,
Adam experienced getting old?
Are you joking?
What does 930 feel like?
You are making this stuff up.
Hi Jodi,
Being given life again in the torn and cut body was not the complete fulfilment of the promise.
Being lifted up into glory and given a new imperishable heavenly body like to the angels is.
There he was given the kingdom and he will soon return to let His Father rule it, in him.
The sixth day is close to being completed. When he returns will there be faith on earth?
Nick,
You said, “They cannot bring themselves to perfection despite their best religious efforts.”
This is exactly what I have repeatedly said. You have to be born again with water and of the Spirit to reach the Kingdom you cannot get there relying on your flesh and blood body.
We had this conversation!
you said, “Perfection of man is not on the agenda of God.”
I just gave you many scriptures showing the opposite, and you respond by telling me things that I have repeatedly said as if I don’t know them.
Nick you said, “Relegating the words of Jesus to be lying and deceitful superstition is not acceptable to God.”
Would you like to clarify what words exactly of Jesus I am doing such a thing to?
Nick Saul heard the voice of Jesus, and Saul became Paul and taught us many things about Jesus after being anointed with God’s Spirit.
Nick,
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
NOW Eve would suffer pain in child birth, and Adam would have to work to produce food.
God brought them PAIN and SORROW after they had sinned. He also brought them DEATH, which is a PROCESS where the body deteriorates over time and eventually comes to a final end.
Nick you really don’t have any concept of aging? Have you ever worked on a farm? You think Adam sweated but his back didn’t hurt? You think those THORNS and THISTLES didn’t cause Adam injury?
Hi Jodi,
Of course that was not knowing him according to the flesh.
He is no longer flesh but has a new and spiritual body.
We no longer know him according to the flesh.
Now the Lord is the Spirit.2 Cor.3.17
Invisible? like to the angels.
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