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Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
Well said, bro. I agree and have been thankful for your point of view.We are all responsible for ourselves.
Love ya,
MandyQuote (TimothyVI @ April 15 2008,19:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
I agree Tim. People here mistake my intentions. I truly believe that the OT dishonors God. I believe in my Creator fully, and I'm ashamed that people will not believe in Him because of what bronze age Israelites wrote about Him.Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
How then, TimVI, do you know of god, if not through scripture?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 16 2008,18:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
How then, TimVI, do you know of god, if not through scripture?Stuart
Men take any truth and build it into a fantasy by adding
to the story each time it is told.
I think that God revealed himself in scriptures. Then man tried to use it to their advantage. Most of the bible tells us how rulers and priests can become more powerful and rich by scaring people into believing that God has commanded something.The bible is like the first grade book, or in Christian talk, the schoolmaster. You read it to learn how to read but then you move on. If you continue to depend on only that first grade book for all of your knowledge, how much more can you learn?
Tim
Quote (Stu @ April 16 2008,01:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
How then, TimVI, do you know of god, if not through scripture?Stuart
Stu, because you cannot disprove God any more than we can prove Him, I think that most atheists struggle with the belief in God because of the bible itself.Yes, we are all born atheists. But how many adult atheists were former Christians, observant Jews, or Muslims? The Abrahamic view of God can lead one to atheism of you have any sense of morals.
Quote (Stu @ April 16 2008,18:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
How then, TimVI, do you know of god, if not through scripture?Stuart
Stuart,I agree with what Tim and Kevin said. I would be aghast if my criticism of scripture turned any away from God. Yes I was introduced to God in a mainstream moderate protestant environment and even that turned me away as a child. Confirmation classes were ridiculous and so I thought religion. I came back to, or I should say to God, not long after through individual contemplation. Christian (raised), to athiest in protest, to agnostic (after anger faded and my ego didn't need stoking), to deist (the closest term I guess to my unorganized beliefs, though I never even heard the term then). God was confirmed in my own view through personal revelation and experience. Note, I do not discount revelation in stock, just second hand revelations, which even my own would be if passed on. My belief in an all powerful, benificient God is firm, though everything else is fluid as I really don't know and can only guess as information comes my way.
Quote (Stu @ April 16 2008,18:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 16 2008,12:04) May GOd forgive me if anything that I said should turn a single soul away from God.
I believe in God. I love my God. My God loves His creation.
My God is love. Love could do none of those things said of God in the bible.
Therefore, the bible must be mistaken.Tim
How then, TimVI, do you know of god, if not through scripture?Stuart
Since a few are taking a shot at this, I will too.I learned of God while hiding in a closet at 3 years of age. I was hiding because my mother had a gun out and was going to kill my dad (they were both drunk). I figured if I hid in the closet I had the best chance of missing a bullet. Plus, the closet had proven to be a good, safe spot to hide from other situations as well. I was tiny and able to get into places that no one would have thought I could be.
Background info: We always had about 20 to 50 ducks in our yard as we lived by a creek.
I prayed while in the closet: “God please protect me and make what is happening to me be like water on a duck's back.”
I knew at a very young age that God was the only one who could help me. I knew that he took care of the ducks because their coats never got wet and the cold didn't bother them. I knew that if he helped them, he could help me.
You say we are born atheists, maybe that is true, I don't know? But at 3 I was very aware of God. I would be riding my trike and look up at the sky and say, “Thank you.” Did I know who I was thanking and why? You bet I did.
I learned of God through nature and the ducks, and through his protection of my body and my mind. Today I do not let what happened to me as a child affect me like most victims I run into. And that is the work of God, I'm convinced.
Colter,
But this can extend to the NT as well. Paul told women to be quiet in church. That was something that might have gone over in the 1st century, but it doesn't hold up well in the 21st.
For a faith to be dynamic, it can't be full of rules, regulations, and commands that are applicable only to certain cultures and time periods. God is supposed to be the same no matter what time in history, but to view certain things in the bible as being from God forces us to believe that He is stuck in the bronze and iron ages. Can we say that the world has left God behind?
There are some good parts of the bible, but to think that God stopped talking to people in 100 CE says that God has left. Where did He go?
Some things Jesus said could be timeless, but in other parts he was stuck too.
- Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Basically Jesus was saying here that that Torah — with its 613 mitzvot — were still in effect in his day. So where in the bible do we see him releasing it from still being applicable? Is a women who has a female baby still supposed to be viewed as “unclean” for 66 days? Is it still OK to pay someone so many shekels if you are caught raping his daughter?
So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!Quote (charity @ April 17 2008,10:05) So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!
God is still there, sis. He cannot turn his back on his children. I don't believe he ever has. Some things that have been written about him have to be false in light of what we have been trying to “prove” lately.Hold on to what is good.
Love to you – no more sad smiles, OK?
MandyQuote (charity @ April 17 2008,10:05) So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!
Don't be sad Charity.
Going quiet inside is what it sometimes takes.“Be still and know that I am God.”
Forget the laws, forget the rules, forget all the talk of men.
“Be still and know that I am God.”It will refresh you.
Love you,
Tim
Yes Charity, I understand. It can be sad to realize that what you were led to believe wasn't quite true. But then again, you were only given so much info to begin with. But the good stuff may be the stuff that made its way through. Sadly so did the bad, written by power hungry men.
Quote (TimothyVI @ April 17 2008,12:03) Quote (charity @ April 17 2008,10:05) So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!
Don't be sad Charity.
Going quiet inside is what it sometimes takes.“Be still and know that I am God.”
Forget the laws, forget the rules, forget all the talk of men.
“Be still and know that I am God.”It will refresh you.
Love you,
Tim
you know and understand where I am Tim
The Laws eats inside away, like a worm?love
charity
Quote (kejonn @ April 17 2008,12:06) Yes Charity, I understand. It can be sad to realize that what you were led to believe wasn't quite true. But then again, you were only given so much info to begin with. But the good stuff may be the stuff that made its way through. Sadly so did the bad, written by power hungry men.
I’ve needed so much, it’s LIKE
I just can’t and couldn’t reach that top self without your helpcharity
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 17 2008,11:58) Quote (charity @ April 17 2008,10:05) So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!
God is still there, sis. He cannot turn his back on his children. I don't believe he ever has. Some things that have been written about him have to be false in light of what we have been trying to “prove” lately.Hold on to what is good.
Love to you – no more sad smiles, OK?
Mandy
okQuote (charity @ April 17 2008,12:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 17 2008,12:03) Quote (charity @ April 17 2008,10:05) So Much I just can’t laugh today. Gone quite inside, sad smiles
God has turned his back, and each need to = a personal seeking for a face of God!
Don't be sad Charity.
Going quiet inside is what it sometimes takes.“Be still and know that I am God.”
Forget the laws, forget the rules, forget all the talk of men.
“Be still and know that I am God.”It will refresh you.
Love you,
Tim
you know and understand where I am Tim
The Laws eats inside away, like a worm?love
charity
Yes Charity, I do know.
I have been there myself.
I have searched to find the truth. Both in these forums
as well as in the bible.I have come to the conclusion that we were not intended to know all the truth. So I got the most comfort in being still, and knowing that He is God. He wants only good for his creation. Bad things can happen but they are not the cause of God, they are just the cause of being.
In the end He will make things right.
Just be still and know that He is God.Love you,
Tim
Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,22:22) Quote (942767 @ April 14 2008,22:31) Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,15:15) Quote (942767 @ April 14 2008,21:56) Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,14:36) 94, So you sanction the killing of over 2 million people (including infants and children and not including the flood) in the OT?
Hi KJ:Show me the scriptures in context, and I will discuss it with you.
Hi KJ:These scriptures are too numerous for me to look at each one in context in one sitting (but I will take a look at each one), but rather than the word “killed”, when it comes to God's actions, against the wicked, I believe that the word would be “that he rendered judgment upon the wicked”.
And I don't have to justify what God has done. He is God and can do whatever He chooses to do, and sometimes, we may not understand, and so, we have to ask God for understanding.
Hehe, now we put conditions on the same end result? Dead is dead.Of course you don't have to justify because you cannot. You just whistle a tune a pretend it isn't in there.
Hi Kj:I know that dead is dead, but there is a difference between a human being killing another human being and when God renders judgment on someone.
There some violations in the law of this society, for example, that can carry the death penalty.
The penalty for breaking God's Law is also death. The scripture states: “the wages of sin is death”, and all of us are guilty of breaking God's law, and it only through what God has done for us through Jesus that we can be forgiven.
In the OT, when someone of the Nation of Israel violated God's Law defiantly the penalty was also death.
I don't have to justify God's actions. He is the judge and I know he judges righteously. This world and all that is in it belongs to Him and He can do with it as he chooses. He does not need permission from you or anyone else.
I would be willing as I said to look at each one of those scriptures mentioned as I said I would if it would make a difference in what you believed about Him, but it probably won't make any difference since your mind seems to be already made up.
The following is what the Apostle Paul states and I agree with his statement:
Quote Rom.9:14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Quote Romans 3:5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Quote Romans 2
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
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