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Stu, can't remember which thread, but in the last week, you somewhere said: “I have no sin,” or something to that effect.
Just saw this scripture and thought you might find it amusing. I did:
PROVERBS 30:12
“There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes but that has not been washed from its own excrement.”Quote Wheter they removed it or not, there is 0% evidence of that the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years. Zero. Unless you solely use the bible as “evidence”. They left nothing behind, and they were supposed to have numbered over 600k people. –kejonn
So again, my point, which I believe has been made, is that just because the Egyptians don't have records of that event, doesn't mean anything. They have this tendancy to not record things that don't flatter them, and even chisel history off walls that don't suit them.
So, you can't say as you did that …”well, the Egyptians make no mention of it, so this means something.” If it does mean anything, it means very little.
Quote I happen to agree with the view of God given in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. If you want to pin a name to Him, Ahura Mazda. So you “most assuredly” believe God exists. Do you believe many gods exist? Or just one, this Ahura Mazda?
Is this god shy? Does it want us to know it? To love it? Or did it create us and then it was on it's way? Tell us about Mazda.
david
Quote Yes, they have found much, but not a single bit of evidence that would support the Israelites being in the desert for 40 years. What kind of evidence? Shoes? Clothing?
DEUTERONOMY 29:5
“‘While I kept guiding YOU forty years in the wilderness, YOUR garments did not wear out upon YOU, and your sandal did not wear out upon your foot.” (compare Neh 9:21; deut 8:4)They were wandering in the desert. They weren't building cities in the desert.
Back to mazda. You and stu, seem to always argue the same points, seem to almost be the same person. At the very least, you both seem only to want to attack belief in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
If I don't see stu attacking your beliefs about mazda, this will make me wonder.With something as important as choosing to believe in a god, you must have done some research. We could take a break for a while from you attacking Bible history and we could ask where your proof is of mazda.
Quote (david @ April 10 2008,18:36) Quote Wheter they removed it or not, there is 0% evidence of that the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years. Zero. Unless you solely use the bible as “evidence”. They left nothing behind, and they were supposed to have numbered over 600k people. –kejonn
So again, my point, which I believe has been made, is that just because the Egyptians don't have records of that event, doesn't mean anything. They have this tendancy to not record things that don't flatter them, and even chisel history off walls that don't suit them.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with the Egyptian records. It has everything to do with the amount of refuse and belongings that 600k people would have left behind in 40 years. None of it has ever been found. None.
Quote So, you can't say as you did that …”well, the Egyptians make no mention of it, so this means something.” If it does mean anything, it means very little. See above. You are guilty of reading words into what I said.
Quote Quote I happen to agree with the view of God given in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. If you want to pin a name to Him, Ahura Mazda. So you “most assuredly” believe God exists. Do you believe many gods exist? Or just one, this Ahura Mazda?
Just a name for God given by Persians. Most specifically, Zarathushtra.
Quote Is this god shy?
I could ask the same of Yahweh. Have you ever seen him? Talked to him face to face?Does it want us to know it? To love it? Or did it create us and then it was on it's way? Tell us about Mazda.
david
You can go over to my board and read my thread on Zoroastrianism. I am planning to add more as the days progress.Forgot to preview my thread. Here it is, the way it is supposed to look:
Quote (david @ April 10 2008,18:36) Quote Wheter they removed it or not, there is 0% evidence of that the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years. Zero. Unless you solely use the bible as “evidence”. They left nothing behind, and they were supposed to have numbered over 600k people. –kejonn
So again, my point, which I believe has been made, is that just because the Egyptians don't have records of that event, doesn't mean anything. They have this tendancy to not record things that don't flatter them, and even chisel history off walls that don't suit them.
It has nothing to do with the Egyptian records. It has everything to do with the amount of refuse and belongings that 600k people would have left behind in 40 years. None of it has ever been found. None.
Quote So, you can't say as you did that …”well, the Egyptians make no mention of it, so this means something.” If it does mean anything, it means very little. See above. You are guilty of reading words into what I said.
Quote Quote I happen to agree with the view of God given in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. If you want to pin a name to Him, Ahura Mazda. So you “most assuredly” believe God exists. Do you believe many gods exist? Or just one, this Ahura Mazda?
Just a name for God given by Persians. Most specifically, Zarathushtra.
Quote Is this god shy?
I could ask the same of Yahweh. Have you ever seen him? Talked to him face to face?Quote Does it want us to know it? To love it? Or did it create us and then it was on it's way? Tell us about Mazda. david
You can go over to my board and read my thread on Zoroastrianism. I am planning to add more as the days progress.Quote (david @ April 10 2008,18:46) Quote Yes, they have found much, but not a single bit of evidence that would support the Israelites being in the desert for 40 years. What kind of evidence? Shoes? Clothing?
DEUTERONOMY 29:5
“‘While I kept guiding YOU forty years in the wilderness, YOUR garments did not wear out upon YOU, and your sandal did not wear out upon your foot.” (compare Neh 9:21; deut 8:4)They were wandering in the desert. They weren't building cities in the desert.
Back to mazda. You and stu, seem to always argue the same points, seem to almost be the same person. At the very least, you both seem only to want to attack belief in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
If I don't see stu attacking your beliefs about mazda, this will make me wonder.Because he does not know them. Nor has belief in the Persian view of God resulted in the devastation that the world has encountered through the various Abrahamic religions. I'm sure he would say I am delusional but that is OK. I believe in God and that is that. But my beliefs do not encourage me to suspend reality and deny all else.
Quote With something as important as choosing to believe in a god, you must have done some research. We could take a break for a while from you attacking Bible history and we could ask where your proof is of mazda.
There is no “proof” of any god. You know that as well as I David. You are diverting. So I will give you another:
Cute picture Kejonn, but not your most flattering.
Quote I could ask the same of Yahweh. Have you ever seen him? Talked to him face to face?
My point in asking that was that if there is a God, and he has some purpose for his creation, you'd think he'd find a way to make that available to … everyone….through, I don't know, a book that has been more widely published than any other book.
Until you mentioned zaruthsala, I had never heard of him. I'll check your thread.I checked out the thread. Extremely little there.
I found your second sentence interesting:
I think that since many do not know the Gathas, that such articles will give people an idea what Zoroastrianism is about.
Yes, I'm guessing that 99.9% of people, give or take half a percent have never heard of this.
This is what I meant when I asked if your god was shy.
If I was the father of a son, I would want the son to know me, or at least, present the chance.
The Bible does this for the true God, Jehovah.The Bible has broken all records. It is what you would expect from a message from God. True, he used imperfect human to write it, people we could relate to, (we could learn from their examples, their faith, and even their mistakes) yet it is one book written over 1600 years, written by people of great diversity. And yet, none of these books disagree with one another. They have a common theme.
Quote Is this god shy? Does it want us to know it? To love it? Or did it create us and then it was on it's way? Tell us about . . . . zaroastrain.
What is mazda? I thought you said that was his name.
Hi Samuel
Quote According to you you think that:
1.) A Universe just exploded into existence out of nothing. (Of which you can't even explain)(Sounds Divine to me)
There is plenty of evidence that a big bang of the kind described by that theory happened. No other model fits the evidence. If it sounds divine, why are you complaining? Adding a god adds nothing to the explanation though.Quote 2.) In this hugely INSANE process…everything just “Happened” to “Land” in “Just the right spot” (By just the right spot I mean the “PERCISE” spot) to sustain life. Sounds divine to me)
There is a divine being in your version. Was he insane? There is no mind at work in the scientific version.Quote 3.) Then life just all by its lonesome just pops into existance from particles and dust on the earth (Sounds divine to me).
No one really knows how the first replicating molecule arose. Do you have a theory of divine life popping? It would replace the few poor ideas we do have with no idea at all.Quote 4.) This primitive lifeforce “Evolves” into intelegent life over the course of “However long you say”…into what we have today.
What is ‘lifeforce’?Quote All of this in which you have now way of explaining, you just think that you do. But you'd rather go around saying that nothing is responsible for this… it just happened.
I would rather know the truth. If tiny green men seeded the earth with a selection of species at the start of the Cambrian period then I want to know about it. Don’t you? It is a fact that evolution has happened, and we have a very good idea of how. You can quote creationist rhetoric all you want but you have not disproved evolution.Quote I honestly …after looking at what the scientists find it EVEN MORE difficult to not believe in GOD. Than with just the Bible.
I honestly say you have not named one. Name a scientist who has become convinced that the bible is right about natural history, who is not a christian fundamentalist.Quote Science …In my opinion just PROVES that GOD exists even more so.
Sure you can have that opinion. By the same logic fossil record proves there is no god as outlined in Genesis. That opinion is just as wrong because your god might have created the entire fossil record to make it look like evolution has happened. That is just the kind of deception he would go for, judging by the confessions in his autobiography!Quote I wish people did not think this way…I really wish they did not.
What, you would rather people did not care about the truth?Stuart
Quote (david @ April 11 2008,11:46) They were wandering in the desert. They weren't building cities in the desert. Back to mazda. You and stu, seem to always argue the same points, seem to almost be the same person. At the very least, you both seem only to want to attack belief in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
If I don't see stu attacking your beliefs about mazda, this will make me wonder.
600,000 people living and moving round in the desert for 40 years would have made tools, and those tools would wear out or break. Would you expect the Israelites to have carried all their hardware waste with them?My family owned a Mazda 323. Great car, did nearly 300,000km before it was rear-ended and written off.
Stuart
Quote (david @ April 11 2008,11:25) Stu, can't remember which thread, but in the last week, you somewhere said: “I have no sin,” or something to that effect. Just saw this scripture and thought you might find it amusing. I did:
PROVERBS 30:12
“There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes but that has not been washed from its own excrement.”
I did not say I was 'pure'. I am without sin.Substitute the word 'righteous' for pure and you might be on to something.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 11 2008,22:04) Hi Stu,
Do we add self-?
From the Stu Edition: PROVERBS 30:12
“There is a generation that is righteous in its own eyes but that has not been washed from its own excrement.”Not pleasant. Could be appropriate!
Stuart
Quote (david @ April 11 2008,00:08) Cute picture Kejonn, but not your most flattering. Quote I could ask the same of Yahweh. Have you ever seen him? Talked to him face to face?
My point in asking that was that if there is a God, and he has some purpose for his creation, you'd think he'd find a way to make that available to … everyone….through, I don't know, a book that has been more widely published than any other book.
Until you mentioned zaruthsala, I had never heard of him. I'll check your thread.
That's just it David. Until some point in history, the bible was NOT that widely distributed. You want to take its distribution today as a measuring stick, but I can come back and say that there has never been a time where the Koran or Book of Mormon has ever be more accessible.What of all of those years where the bible wasn't so available? What of all of those people who never heard the “plan of God” from a book?
Want to know the real plan of God? Walk outside and look around you. Look at your fellow man. There is the plan. God wants us to improve our world and improve our relationship with our fellow man. Curiously enough, you don't need any book to tell you that, its inside of you.
Quote (david @ April 11 2008,00:23) I checked out the thread. Extremely little there. I found your second sentence interesting:
I think that since many do not know the Gathas, that such articles will give people an idea what Zoroastrianism is about.
Yes, I'm guessing that 99.9% of people, give or take half a percent have never heard of this.
This is what I meant when I asked if your god was shy.
The “popularity” of the bible is the measuring stick of Yahweh? Wonder why it took so long for Yahweh to become popular?
Do you know of another book were billions are sold or distributed, but so few are read? So it seems Yahweh is running a massive ad campaign, but so few know his policies (found in the bible right?)
There was a time when Zoroastrianism was a widespread religion. You may ask what happened to it. Likely, it was overcome by more violent and fear-based religions. It was the dominant Persian religion until Islam came along and forced everyone in Iran to convert.
That is partly why it is no longer popular as well. The Abrahamic religions are fear-based. They keep people in line by using fear of the unknown. Fear of hell or what may happen if you don't do Yahweh's (or Allah's) will. Fear of what your fellow Jew, Christian, or Muslim will think if you don't live up to certain expectations.
But even Jesus said “Mat 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.”
Makes you wonder…if Christianity is the #1 religion in the world, who is going down the right path in Christianity? So much infighting in Christianity.
Quote If I was the father of a son, I would want the son to know me, or at least, present the chance.
The Bible does this for the true God, Jehovah.If Yahweh needs a book to make people know him, he is weak. Men are known through books and legends. The true God needs no book or legends. His record is all around us.
Quote The Bible has broken all records. It is what you would expect from a message from God. True, he used imperfect human to write it, people we could relate to, (we could learn from their examples, their faith, and even their mistakes) yet it is one book written over 1600 years, written by people of great diversity. And yet, none of these books disagree with one another. They have a common theme. Quote Is this god shy? Does it want us to know it? To love it? Or did it create us and then it was on it's way? Tell us about . . . . zaroastrain.
What is mazda? I thought you said that was his name.
What do you mean “What is Mazda”? Besides being a Japanese car brand, it is just the name given to God by Zarathushtra. I don't use it much myself because I don' think knowing what God was called in Avestan (or Persian) is that much different than naming God Jehovah or Yahweh.Ahura Mazda simply means “Wise Lord” or “Lord of Wisdom”.
Quote (Stu @ April 11 2008,04:54) Quote (david @ April 11 2008,11:46) They were wandering in the desert. They weren't building cities in the desert. Back to mazda. You and stu, seem to always argue the same points, seem to almost be the same person. At the very least, you both seem only to want to attack belief in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
If I don't see stu attacking your beliefs about mazda, this will make me wonder.
600,000 people living and moving round in the desert for 40 years would have made tools, and those tools would wear out or break. Would you expect the Israelites to have carried all their hardware waste with them?My family owned a Mazda 323. Great car, did nearly 300,000km before it was rear-ended and written off.
Stuart
See? Does Yahweh have a care line named after him
?Quote (kejonn @ April 11 2008,22:50) Quote (Stu @ April 11 2008,04:54) Quote (david @ April 11 2008,11:46) They were wandering in the desert. They weren't building cities in the desert. Back to mazda. You and stu, seem to always argue the same points, seem to almost be the same person. At the very least, you both seem only to want to attack belief in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
If I don't see stu attacking your beliefs about mazda, this will make me wonder.
600,000 people living and moving round in the desert for 40 years would have made tools, and those tools would wear out or break. Would you expect the Israelites to have carried all their hardware waste with them?My family owned a Mazda 323. Great car, did nearly 300,000km before it was rear-ended and written off.
Stuart
See? Does Yahweh have a care line named after him ?
The Yahweh Insult MkI. The manufacture promised much but design faults resulted in many fatalities.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 09 2008,15:34) Quote (942767 @ April 09 2008,12:27) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 08 2008,16:20) Quote (942767 @ April 08 2008,16:11) I really wish that I could comfort you regarding your sister, but I cannot.
What do you mean?
Hi Mandy:I mean that God is merciful and is willing to forgive if we repent when we do wrong. However, you said that your sister killed herself. I don't see how it is possible for someone to repent when they have done this. The best that I can do is tell you that I know that my Father and my God is a righteous God and I totally trust that He will always do the right thing.
I guess there is no room for, “….forgive them, for they know not what they do….” in your theology, brother? It's OK, it's a tough call. As you say, we'll leave this one to God.I just find it hard to believe that God knew all along while my sister was worshiping him and leading other's to Christ, that she would end her life so tragically. How could he have possibly accepted her praise? How could he have been joyful at her witness of him and his son, when he knew she would commit such unspeakable crimes against humanity?
Hi Mandy:As you say, We'll just leave the fate of your sister to God. I desire the very best for your sister and for you.
Quote (kejonn @ April 11 2008,10:16) Quote (942767 @ April 10 2008,09:01) Quote (kejonn @ April 09 2008,13:16) Quote (942767 @ April 08 2008,19:18) God is righteous in all that He does. You may not understand his motives, but I do.
Then what were his motives? Reread the above. Many times Yahweh says he would harden Pharaoh's heart. What choice then did Pharaoh have? He was just a pawn according to the bible. Because of it, many innocent babes and children died in Egypt.
Hi KJ:His motives were to deliver His people out of bondage to Pharaoh and to reconcile them to Himself, and to judge the oppressors of His people.
But are you saying he could not have done so without the final plague? The one that resulted in so much Egyptian innocent dead?
Quote Killing the firsborn of Egypt is symbolic of the judgment that will be rendered against those who are not born again. God has said that Israel is His firstborn.
So are you saying this is a symbolic passage (the Exodus) or did it actually happen? Or are you saying that Yahweh killed many as a warning to those who wouldn't accept Jesus — although Jesus had not been heard of?
Hi KJ:The scriptures are both literal and symbolic, and through symbolism we can see God's plan for the redemption of His children from the consequence of sin.
God rendered judgment on the Pharaoh's first born. You see that as God killing innocent people, but no, I believe that God knows better than you and I about innocent people.
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