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Hi Proclaimer,
You have made totally false assumptions about my view.
I gave you Romans 7 to read and Romans 9, you think that was just for no reason?
Jesus OVERCAME, he conquered his weak flesh and denied all temptation going to the cross as a lamb without spot or blemish, which he did BECAUSE the eternal Spirit was upon him without measure.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
God didn’t send a pre-existing one of a kind first creature that God created to earth to die for our sins, God SENT a man whom was begotten of the eternal Spirit without measure to die for us. Without that Spirit Jesus wouldn’t have gone to the cross, for it was through the Spirit that was upon him he had the ability to deny his own will aroused by weak flesh.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Faith and hope in the POWER of God’s Spirit that it can lead a man to be fully obedient, even against the power of sinful nature, even against the fear of death that has held all men since the beginning in bondage.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
God’s calling unto His chosen is unto faith and that faith is counted as righteousness whereby we are worthy to obtain the promise when Christ returns. That promise is to be a joint heir with Jesus, having God dwell all in us whereby God then leads us in all His ways and we are thus God’s children along with Jesus.
It’s a CALLING Proclaimer unto those who God CHOSE even before the world was, and it’s too powerful to deny, it’s a SURE THING.
As Gene has told you, if this were not so then our God could not have made a single promise.
All you do Proclaimer is teach self-righteousness whereby you speak against the Holy Spirit.
We want to be as Jesus, as a man who has God’s Spirit, a Son according to the Spirit, for where the Spirit dwells there is righteousness and life.
But there is more, we are promised to be freed from a weak mortal body and be given a body of flesh raised in glory, in power, incorruptible, a body that does not tempt us away to serve our flesh anymore, we are free to serve God without fear.
Until then,
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Jesus OVERCAME, he conquered his weak flesh and denied all temptation going to the cross as a lamb without spot or blemish, which he did BECAUSE the eternal Spirit was upon him without measure.
We too have this choice. Deny the flesh and let the Spirit lead and guide us instead. A choice we are given. Up to us.
Proclaimer my, my, how you drift around, and sell God and his saving power Short. If we lived how you believe no one would ever be saved, or haven’t you ever read what Paul quoted?
Rom 3:10…..as it is written, there is “none” rightious “no not one”: There is “none” that understands, there is ‘none” that seeks after God. read the rest on your own.
Psm 53:3….Everyone of them is gone back: they are “altogether” become filthy; there is none that does Good “no” not “one”.
Rom 2:21-28, read that too while your at it, then come back and tell us how you some how saved your self by your own, so-called “freewill” choices did it.
Choose This Day Whom You Will Serve
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Another thorough debunking that exposes your teaching as wrong. This is easy when all I have to do is quote scripture. I notice you resort to your human wisdom on this which is tiresome for you I expect. Whereas, I can google the scriptures that debunk you in less than a minute. Easy.
Proclaimer,
YOU:
We too have this choice. Deny the flesh and let the Spirit lead and guide us instead. A choice we are given. Up to us.
ME: Uh, apparently you have not comprehended at all what Paul teaches in Romans 7 and 9 as well as elsewhere.
It’s God’s mercy upon us, not self-righteousness. God’s mercy is GIVEN not chosen, and when it’s given it produces good fruit. The potter has power over the clay, not the clay is his own potter.
Jesus was the ONLY mortal man to receive God’s Spirit not by measure. Jesus ALONE was CHOSEN by God where God held his hand and kept him for to be a light to fulfill God’s covenant, God kept him from sin.
There are many fruits of God’s Spirit and Jesus ALONE received them all and we are promised to receive them all as well.
We are all born with sinful nature, we didn’t choose to be born with sinful nature. We don’t choose to be born of God either. God’s promise is to be ALL in, for us to be born of all the fruits of His Spirit. Until that time, right now we can look at man on earth and identify where God’s mercy dwells and to what measure and where it does not.
God chooses who, when, and to what measure a mortal person receives of His mercy, His goodness. Without God’s mercy here and there the entire world would be exceedingly sinful everywhere at all times. He gives it and He also may take it away. God’s Spirit is at work in certain measures to people who don’t even know Him.
Proclaimer, I will say it again, the Potter has power over the clay! But yet you teach self-righteousness.
God has an election, He has an order, He has those who He has chosen to have faith in Him and help lead with Christ when he returns.
It’s God’s mercy upon us, not self-righteousness. God’s mercy is GIVEN not chosen, and when it’s given it produces good fruit. The potter has power over the clay, not the clay is his own potter.
A moot point. Yes it is given, but you have to choose to accept it.
It’s a gift and not all accept it.
Back to the drawing board Jodi.
We are all born with sinful nature, we didn’t choose to be born with sinful nature. We don’t choose to be born of God either.
A moot point. We may not have chosen our nature, but we certainly choose what nature we ultimately want.
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
Free will doesn’t rule out a deterministic universe or that some things are not chosen. It means, we are free to choose that which God has allowed as a choice. Such as choosing the Spirit or the flesh. God or Satan. Night or darkness. Love or hate.
God doesn’t judge us if a meteorite kills some people, but he will judge you if you reject God. Why? Because that is something you choose for yourself. That is why you are responsible for certain things.
Nobody is arguing that free will is the idea that you can choose to do anything you want except you and Gene.
Back to the drawing board Jodi.
Proclaimer, what Jodi said is not a mute point, it a very sound point , there is no such thing as a will, that is Free, or it wouldn’t even be a will, now would it? , again for the hundredth time, Jodi and I ‘both” know we have freedom to exercise our Will’s, we are not arguing that point, that’s a mute point here, we are talking about the Will “itself” and how it operates. And there is “nothing” free about that at all. IN FACT WE ARE ALL HELD “CAPTIVE” BY OUR OWN WILLS. WHY do you think it says “he came to set the “captives” free”. FREE from what ?, from their own carnel thinking, which controls our minds is what controls our, “WILLS”.
The term “freewill” is an “OXYMORON ” because there are no will’s that are free, none exists. All will’s are drive by what going on in the mind of a person, and what’s going on is what has been put into it?
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, are from the world, and the world is passing away and so is the lust thereof”, (that came from it).
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Jodi and I ‘both” know we have freedom to exercise our Will’s,
Thank you.
because there are no will’s that are free
You speak with forked tongue.
Proclaimer,
Gene does NOT speak with a forked tongue, you just don’t get it at all.
What a person is taught and how they are treated when they are taught, directly affects the decisions that they make.
So one may be given the freedom to make a choice, but the choice that they make is DEPENENT upon what they were taught and how they were treated.
He admits to free will on one hand then says no free will. That’s a perfect example of a forked tongue.
So one may be given the freedom to make a choice, but the choice that they make is DEPENENT upon what they were taught and how they were treated.
That’s free will. Nobody here is arguing that we can choose to do anything at any time. That is called being God.
Everybody has a conscience and enough evidence to prove there is a God and there is good and evil.
God gave us free will to not only acknowledge him but to honour him too. Different amounts of revelation provide us with more choice, but also makes us more responsible.
Proclaimer…..please explain this then.
Provides 22:6……”Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
How does that stack up with your doctrine of “freewill” thinkers?
Jodi is right I am not think speaking with a forked tongue.
Nowhere did I ever say “our will are free” to chose what the wanted to”, that’s you speaking a “lie”. What I said over and over is this, but “try” to pay closer attintion if at all possible” ,
We have “FREEDOM” to excesses our WILL’S, but those will’s are “THEMSELVES” , far from being “FREE” . Our Will’s are held captive by what is “DRIVING” them, and what is driving them is what is “INFLUENCING” the mind the most, GET IT ?
IF YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THAT, then go back and look again at the video you or Edj posted, even that is telling you the same thing.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Proclaimer…..please explain this then.
Provides 22:6……”Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
How does that stack up with your doctrine of “freewill” thinkers?
Easy. When you are shown a better way, you stick with that because you can see the other ways are not great. So you choose the better way. But obviously we observe people leaving the way of righteousness, so they choose to fall away.
But if I am taught the most efficient mathematical working for a sum, then I am not likely to depart from that method and use a more cumbersome method. Likewise, if I am taught as a child to be tidy and organized, then that will likely stay with me for life. I could still choose to be a fat lazy slob, but the benefit of being organized is obvious to me.
Free will still allows me to depart these ways and in reality people choose to depart, but I would argue it is hard for them to do so if it is good.
So you will agree what is put into our minds causes us, to do it, right?, I would argue that “what ever”, is put in your mind will, with enough repetivity “cause you” to do it. IN TIME OF WAR, it is called “brain washing” , nothing “Free” with those minds is there? they are being held captive by the thoughts of their mind.
“Freewill”, is an “OXYMORON ” no such thing exists Proclaimer.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
I wonder if engaging in your silly arguments makes you think you are wise, when you are not? Seriously gene, you are consistently wrong and debunked. But it takes a person with wisdom to respond correctly to correction.
But for the sake of the readers, I will continue to debunk your false teaching so people can see where you have erred. Let you be a lesson for others to learn from. If you choose to show others what to avoid, then there is a positive to your false teachings.
Now for the point.
Free will doesn’t negate the idea that there are influences. Wherever did you get that idea from?
Proclaimer. ……as far as debunking goes, your own videos you and Edj, post debunk you, I don’t have to,they do.
Where did I get that idea from, your Will is made up by those influences, without them you would not even have a will to do anything. Common sense 101. You will alway without exception “do what “influences” you the most. Why, do you think drug additcs can’t quit on their own. It certanily is not because they don’t “will” not to quite, it’s because what is “driving” their habit is stronger then their will”s are , “nothing free about that now is there.
All of us are held captive by what is “influencing” us the Most. You presenting Will’s as being Free, is simply not true at all. They are far from being Free, they are drive and held captive by verious lust of the flesh and mind, you will is a prisoner of your own thoughts.
While God does give us “freedom” to do those thing, our “captivated” will’s wants to, the Will’s “themselves” are far from free.
I really don’t care if you believe me or your very own videos, or not, “your wrong”!
Peace and love to you and yours…….gene
Where did I get that idea from, your Will is made up by those influences, without them you would not even have a will to do anything.
Thank you. Choices exist. And God gave us the ability to choose. He also holds us accountable for our decisions because they are truly ours to make.
All of us are held captive by what is “influencing” us the Most. You presenting Will’s as being Free, is simply not true at all. They are far from being Free, they are drive and held captive by verious lust of the flesh and mind, you will is a prisoner of your own thoughts.
And what influences you the most is determined by the state of your heart which is what it is by reason of the choices you have made.
We are not animals that can only react by instinct. Well if you are an animal, then know that many here are made in the image of God and are a higher form of life. Animals are not held accountable for the 10 commandments for example. But if you want to convince me that you are a mere animal running on instinct, then who am I to argue. But I am not and children of God are above that.
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