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Although, he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, and came in the flesh. Now he is at the right-hand of God in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos began. As for the body, there is a physical body and there is a spiritual body.
T8,
I am not sure of what your point is.
As for the body, there is a physical body and there is a spiritual body
That is an inventive translation of 1 Corinthians 15:44 as I have no idea how someone can get the word physical out of the adjective form of soul.
Although, he existed in the form of God,
I am not sure how you take this passage. Do you believe Jesus as well as angels are the same kind as God>
The point of the body is a mystery, but let’s go with: it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
- For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
- who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
- For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
In scripture we know that angels are ministering spirits, yet they look like men at times in scripture.
The point I make is that we will be like Christ. This is what we know. Those who claim to have all the answers about the body that Christ has or the one’s we will have, need to agree with the 4 verses above for a start, but also realise that it is a mystery to some degree too.
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Offspring are like kind. As they inherit from their parents.
The son of God is of God and he existed in the form of God.
He also existed in the form of man after he emptied himself. Remember he was made a little lower than the angels …, but certainly he is greater than all the angels.
God is a Spirit and angels are spirits.
First the natural, then the spiritual for us. It is even written that we will be like the angels and will not marry.
T8,
He also existed in the form of man after he emptied himself. Remember he was made a little lower than the angels …, but certainly he is greater than all the angels.
The writer of Hebrews is quoting a passage of Scripture that is speaking of humanity being created a little lower that the angels. I assume you do not believe it was applied applied literally as you do not believe Jesus was created a little lower than the angels but instead you believe he was reduced to being a little lower than the angels.
That seems to disagree with your interpretation of the words “emptied himself” as implies the Messiah lowered himself to become a servant. Have you come up with a solution to the mystery I just mentioned?
My point was clear. He became a man and men are lower than the angels of God. Yet angels served him.
So will he remain lower than the angels forever. Or was humbled and lower state just temporary as he emptied himself and came in the flesh after existing in the form of God. Did he return to the glory that he had with God before the cosmos existed. I believe he did. So he like us took on the natural and then the spiritual.
In the natural we are lower than angels. But what about the spiritual. Clearly there is a difference in bodies and there are different glories between the natural and the spiritual. Jesus has a spiritual body after he partook of the natural. We will follow him who trust in him. Our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his. This is one of the great promises that believers look forward to.
Do you agree with the scriptures that teach this or not?
T8,
I must not have been clear.
A spiritual body is a body led by the Spirit just like a spiritual nan is a man led by the Spirit.
A natural body is not led by the Spirit just like a natural man is not led by Spirit.The word natural has a Scriptural meaning that is not found in the English dictionary I looked at. According to the Lexicon at Blue Letter Bible the definition is “the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes” or “the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion”.
I think angels have chosen to be natural or spiritual though they may not have natural bodies. If so they are certainly not of the nature of this world as the evidence is they are not bound to corruption.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5591&t=NASB
My question is based on the fact that the words “empty himself” is an action performed by Jesus while “made: is an action performed on Jesus. I was asked how you resolved your conclusion they are they are the same action when they appear to be two different actions?
You make comments that seem to cast doubt over a spiritual body and then reply as if you accept it. Not sure whether you are coming or going. What sort of a body does a heavenly angel have in your view?
T8.
The bodies of angels are immortal which means they are not subject to corruption and in the nature of the present age the creations of the earth are subject to entropy.
One key thing I know about the difference between the Spiritual body and the natural body is the earlier is not bound to either frustration or corruption while the later is bound to both.
I know Scientist have relatively recently confirmed what Scripture already claimed.
Romans 8:21New English Translation (NET Bible)
21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children.
So when referring to the “the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes” as applied to the body we can conclude that it means the body is subject to both frustration and corruption. We also know the bodies of angels, even the fallen ones, are not.
Hi t8
“My point was clear. He became a man and men are lower than the angels of God. Yet angels served him.
So will he remain lower than the angels forever. Or was humbled and lower state just temporary as he emptied himself and came in the flesh after existing in the form of God. Did he return to the glory that he had with God before the cosmos existed. I believe he did. So he like us took on the natural and then the spiritual.”
Are you not saying the spiritual was first, then the natural, then the spiritual again??
And so saying he is not like us?
Can we say the same about us or any man regarding the following scripture?
Philippians 2:6
NIV
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.…NASB
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,Yes he is like us because he came in the flesh and lived among us.
No he is not like us because he is the firstborn of all creation, the image of the invisible God.His history is not like ours. But he came into the world as one of us, so that part is the same. Like us he was born a baby and grew up and experienced this world. God sent him into the world after they largely ignored the prophets.
Hi t8,
No you cannot say that about any natural flesh man.
But it is true about CHRIST Jesus, the WORD made flesh.
So Nick, your view is Jesus + Christ = Jesus Christ.
Good so far.
Then any reference before Jesus + Christ = Jesus for you, whereas others talk about Christ and you oppose their view.
He existed in the form of God and emptying himself and came here right?
Surely if the Word was God, then was WITH God and then came in the flesh or became flesh, then why not trace his ancestry back to the Word. Why do you always trace him back to the flesh? After all, you often say, “The flesh counts for nothing”. Does that mean your view counts for nothing then?
Hi T*,
Are you implying that Jesus was not a man?
Was he a god who came to look like men but was never one?
Was he not conceived in Mary?
Hi t8,
Everything spiritually relevant happens by the Spirit and is for God.
We are honoured to be used as vessels for God.
T8,
When I hear spiritual body I do not think of a body composed of spirit but rather I think of a body by the Spirit of God.
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