Do you believe the theory of Evolution to be true?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,23:56)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,23:53) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Ah, but I think you're wrong!   I am able to appreciate his view and even put myself in his shoes, so to speak.  I can imagine there is no God.  I can even educate myself on science and evolution to understand what he sees as truth.  But can he do the same?  He said that he could not.  I don't have to stop believing in God to imagine that there is not God.  I can ponder the possibilities and even accept that they may be true.  But Stuart has said that he cannot. Mandy Having spent some time around others like Stu and also seeing how many theists react to them, I can pretty much say you are still wrong. You will never really be able to understand Stu until you completely stop believing (or at least have very strong doubts).

I don't think you are correct here kejohn.
Those who do not believe in another God do understand stu.
Even if they think they do not.
They possess the exact same type of disbelief that stu has.

Tim

[Lightenup]

Hi all,
I am a kitchen designer by trade. I believe that every kitchen comes about because of a designer whether it is an uneducated and unexperienced one or one with experience and talent. I would never tell a client to set off some exposives in the area that they would like there kitchen to be and in the morning they would have a kitchen in perfect order. There is an order to a design becoming reality. Yet every design has a designer and some more intelligent than others. My clients put faith in me with their bare walls and hope that I can give them an orderly environment in which functions well for them to prepare and store food. When they come to me sometimes they have no previous experience with my work. It takes greater faith for these people. For those who have seen finished kitchens and have gone through the process of being my previous client, an architect for example, it is easier for them to have increasing faith in my work.

If you believe that every design has a designer and then you see and experience their designs, well then it gets easier and easier to put your faith in them to do what they say they can do and will do for you.

I have faith that creation has a designer and it grows more and more as I learn of the smallest details of nature that show such complexity. What an amazing designer we have!

LU

[kejonn]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 02 2008,09:00)

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,23:56) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,23:53) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Ah, but I think you're wrong! I am able to appreciate his view and even put myself in his shoes, so to speak. I can imagine there is no God. I can even educate myself on science and evolution to understand what he sees as truth. But can he do the same? He said that he could not. I don't have to stop believing in God to imagine that there is not God. I can ponder the possibilities and even accept that they may be true. But Stuart has said that he cannot. Mandy Having spent some time around others like Stu and also seeing how many theists react to them, I can pretty much say you are still wrong. You will never really be able to understand Stu until you completely stop believing (or at least have very strong doubts). I don't think you are correct here kejohn. Those who do not believe in another God do understand stu. Even if they think they do not. They possess the exact same type of disbelief that stu has. Tim

True. I guess if they can apply their non-belief in Allah or Brahman or Ahura Mazda to Yahweh, they will get a sense of an atheistic/agnostic view. But experience shows that they struggle with this, just as atheists/agnostics who were not former Christians struggle with the mindset of a Christian.

[Stu]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 03 2008,02:45)

Hi all, I am a kitchen designer by trade.  I believe that every kitchen comes about because of a designer whether it is an uneducated and unexperienced one or one with experience and talent.  I would never tell a client to set off some exposives in the area that they would like there kitchen to be and in the morning they would have a kitchen in perfect order.  There is an order to a design becoming reality.  Yet every design has a designer and some more intelligent than others.  My clients put faith in me with their bare walls and hope that I can give them an orderly environment in which functions well for them to prepare and store food.  When they come to me sometimes they have no previous experience with my work.  It takes greater faith for these people. For those who have seen finished kitchens and have gone through the process of being my previous client, an architect for example, it is easier for them to have increasing faith in my work. If you believe that every design has a designer and then you see and experience their designs, well then it gets easier and easier to put your faith in them to do what they say they can do and will do for you. I have faith that creation has a designer and it grows more and more as I learn of the smallest details of nature that show such complexity.  What an amazing designer we have!

What you say is true. Designed things have designers. I for one agree with everything you wrote. However, you would not be able to apply the argument from design to the universe or bacteria, plants, or animals like us because the cosmos and living things were not designed. We know pretty much exactly how matter, stars, planets have evolved (defferent use of the word) and how humans have arisen from bacteria by spontaneous processes. Kitchens definitely need designers. Ours could do with the services of one! Universes and living organisms do not. The story is written in the patterns of the elements in the universe, and in our DNA.

Stuart

[Not3in1]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,23:56)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,23:53) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Ah, but I think you're wrong!   I am able to appreciate his view and even put myself in his shoes, so to speak.  I can imagine there is no God.  I can even educate myself on science and evolution to understand what he sees as truth.  But can he do the same?  He said that he could not.  I don't have to stop believing in God to imagine that there is not God.  I can ponder the possibilities and even accept that they may be true.  But Stuart has said that he cannot. Mandy Having spent some time around others like Stu and also seeing how many theists react to them, I can pretty much say you are still wrong. You will never really be able to understand Stu until you completely stop believing (or at least have very strong doubts).

Kevin,

One of my best friends is an Atheist. Maybe you should ask her how well I understand her and her belief system? We've been dear friends for about 6 years now…..

But it really matters not to me whether you think I can completely identify with Atheists or not. The fact of the matter is, I see their view pretty clearly. I can see where and why they believe what they believe. I could easily choose to believe what they believe…..but I've made another choice.
Love,
Mandy

[kejonn]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 02 2008,17:20)

Kevin, One of my best friends is an Atheist.  Maybe you should ask her how well I understand her and her belief system?  We've been dear friends for about 6 years now….. But it really matters not to me whether you think I can completely identify with Atheists or not.  The fact of the matter is, I see their view pretty clearly.  I can see where and why they believe what they believe.  I could easily choose to believe what they believe…..but I've made another choice. Love, Mandy

So your belief in God is a choice?

[Not3in1]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 03 2008,15:18)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 02 2008,17:20) Kevin, One of my best friends is an Atheist.  Maybe you should ask her how well I understand her and her belief system?  We've been dear friends for about 6 years now….. But it really matters not to me whether you think I can completely identify with Atheists or not.  The fact of the matter is, I see their view pretty clearly.  I can see where and why they believe what they believe.  I could easily choose to believe what they believe…..but I've made another choice. Love, Mandy So your belief in God is a choice?

I believe it's a choice to answer the call or not.

[Stu]

It sounds like god only exists because people choose to believe it does.

What if god held a party and no one came?

Stuart

[seekingtruth]

Quote

It sounds like god only exists because people choose to believe it does. What if god held a party and no one came? Stuart

He did, Luke 14:15

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 04 2008,01:40)

Quote It sounds like god only exists because people choose to believe it does. What if god held a party and no one came? Stuart He did, Luke 14:15

Little wonder when you read Luke 14:26 and 14:33! Why would you go to a feast if there was a danger you would be lectured by your host about the worthlessness of your own life?

Stuart

[seekingtruth]

Stu,
There you go twisting scripture again. The scriptures you referred to are for counting the costs before deciding to place your trust in God. The “party” is the gathering together at the end of those who have put their trust in God. Of course I believe you knew that, but you don't care about accuracy, but continue to vent your anger at the “non-existent god”.

[Stu]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 04 2008,10:59)

Stu, There you go twisting scripture again. The scriptures you referred to are for counting the costs before deciding to place your trust in God. The “party” is the gathering together at the end of those who have put their trust in God. Of course I believe you knew that, but you don't care about accuracy, but continue to vent your anger at the “non-existent god”.

You are right that my use of these verses is trivial. I think my small-minded take on them is nothing compared to the bombastic and narrow-visioned contents of those two verses. It just seems to be a recipe for a kind of schizophrenia, or at least paranoia. But then if every move you make is watched by this CCTV in the sky I guess you could get a little paranoid.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 29 2008,20:52)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 28 2008,22:45) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 26 2008,22:11) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2008,21:31) Hey Stu. Have you evolved into a Christian yet? Third off-topic post in two days.  Your hypocrisy is becoming a sick joke. Stuart This thread is about Evolution and the theory suggests that living organisms adapt to their environment. So given the time you exist here, I was wondering if Evolution was starting to do its thing with you. So as you can see, it is entirely within the scope of Evolution. I also noted just now that you can dish it out, but you can't take it. It is one thing to dish it out Stu, but you have to be prepared to take it too. I know that some of your accusations and opinions are offensive to some, but I am at least willing to entertain your opinion and take it in good steed and have a laugh too while I am there. But I noticed that you can't handle what you give to others, when it comes back to you. I think I have proved my point. I hope you learned something today. What point do you think you have proved? Stuart

That you dish it out but can't take it.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26)

Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective.

Hmm I think I actually agree with you.

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,21:26)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 29 2008,20:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 28 2008,22:45) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 26 2008,22:11) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2008,21:31) Hey Stu. Have you evolved into a Christian yet? Third off-topic post in two days.  Your hypocrisy is becoming a sick joke. Stuart This thread is about Evolution and the theory suggests that living organisms adapt to their environment. So given the time you exist here, I was wondering if Evolution was starting to do its thing with you. So as you can see, it is entirely within the scope of Evolution. I also noted just now that you can dish it out, but you can't take it. It is one thing to dish it out Stu, but you have to be prepared to take it too. I know that some of your accusations and opinions are offensive to some, but I am at least willing to entertain your opinion and take it in good steed and have a laugh too while I am there. But I noticed that you can't handle what you give to others, when it comes back to you. I think I have proved my point. I hope you learned something today. What point do you think you have proved? Stuart That you dish it out but can't take it.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what I am being asked to 'take'. Did you actually make a good point about something?

Stuart

[Not3in1]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,21:28)

Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Hmm I think I actually agree with you.

Do you have to starve to see things from the perspective of the starving? I don't know. I think that as human beings we can put ourselves in the shoes of other's without having to experience exactly what they experience. It's called empathy. Something that humans need to practice much more often than they apparently do!

As difficult as it is for me to view the world without a Creator who is God, I can imagine that the exact opposite is true for Stuart!

Have a great day bro's,
Mandy

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:34)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,21:28) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Hmm I think I actually agree with you. Do you have to starve to see things from the perspective of the starving?  I don't know.  I think that as human beings we can put ourselves in the shoes of other's without having to experience exactly what they experience.  It's called empathy.  Something that humans need to practice much more often than they apparently do!   As difficult as it is for me to view the world without a Creator who is God, I can imagine that the exact opposite is true for Stuart! Have a great day bro's, Mandy

Mandy Putting yourself into the Shoes of an Atheist is very
dangerous to do. IMO

Peace and Love Irene

[Stu]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 05 2008,09:28)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:34) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,21:28) Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 02 2008,13:26) Ah, but you will never be able to see things from Stu's perspective unless you stop believing in God. So it is not different for him as he must start believing in God to see things from your perspective. Hmm I think I actually agree with you. Do you have to starve to see things from the perspective of the starving?  I don't know.  I think that as human beings we can put ourselves in the shoes of other's without having to experience exactly what they experience.  It's called empathy.  Something that humans need to practice much more often than they apparently do!   As difficult as it is for me to view the world without a Creator who is God, I can imagine that the exact opposite is true for Stuart! Have a great day bro's, Mandy Mandy   Putting yourself into the Shoes of an Atheist is very            dangerous to do. IMO Peace and Love Irene

Is that a threat? Saul of Tarsus really has you in mental chains, doesn't he?!

Stuart

[Stu]

More from the wishful thinking of the front page of this website:

Quote

People who do not believe in God, also believe that the wonderful and technological human eye was not designed by God, rather such design came about because creatures without eyes had a less chance of survival.

I don’t believe in god and I don’t believe that strawman of evolution of the eye. The evolutionary stages of eye development postulated in the past have been found. The light-sensitive patch of skin ‘eye’ and the rudimentary cup of cells eye are both known in modern animal species. What is more, the eye is so useful it has evolved independently several times in different evolutionary branches of the tree of life.

Quote

Yet when we see a man made camera we all know without a doubt that it was designed and built by someone. Did a camera come about by evolutionary processes because of the need for people to take photos, no it was created by intelligence for that need. However the truth is that the human eye and the human camera both use the same technology to turn light into an image, that can be understood. If you believe that a camera is always created by a designer (and so you should), then why is it so hard to believe that there was a creator for the human eye

Whoever wrote this has never heard of reverse engineering. Is there just the tiniest possibility that a camera could have been designed as a result of looking at that amazing (although flawed) product of natural selection, the eye?

Heavennet logic never was a strong point.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Sep. 04 2008,23:23)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2008,21:26) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 29 2008,20:52) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 28 2008,22:45) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 26 2008,22:11) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2008,21:31) Hey Stu. Have you evolved into a Christian yet? Third off-topic post in two days.  Your hypocrisy is becoming a sick joke. Stuart This thread is about Evolution and the theory suggests that living organisms adapt to their environment. So given the time you exist here, I was wondering if Evolution was starting to do its thing with you. So as you can see, it is entirely within the scope of Evolution. I also noted just now that you can dish it out, but you can't take it. It is one thing to dish it out Stu, but you have to be prepared to take it too. I know that some of your accusations and opinions are offensive to some, but I am at least willing to entertain your opinion and take it in good steed and have a laugh too while I am there. But I noticed that you can't handle what you give to others, when it comes back to you. I think I have proved my point. I hope you learned something today. What point do you think you have proved? Stuart That you dish it out but can't take it. Sorry, but I'm not sure what I am being asked to 'take'.  Did you actually make a good point about something? Stuart

Yes.

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