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Istari,
It is sad you seem to feel a need to blurt out words without knowledge whileI have repeatedly challenged you to support your speculation that ghosts were really demons using scripture. You have failed to do so and so I will point to the fact the Hebrews use the words “'owb”, “ba`alah” and perhaps others to mean ghost, necromancer, or necromancy. These words are not rare in the Old Testament and Isaiah 29:4 speaks of one way the dead speak to the living. Since God admits that the dead speak to the living then why would I be fool enough to deny it?
In the New Testament the disciples of Jesus fear he is a “Phantasma”, The Greek word, in the account of him walking on water in both the gospels of Matthew and Mark. In the gospel of Luke the author uses “Pneuma” as a synonym for “Phantasma”.
In short the writers used a word translated “ghost” fairly often and yet supposedly you do not suspect them of being influenced by demons.
References:
SearchGodsWord.org entry for “'owb” reads:
Quote 1.water skin bottle
2.necromancer
1.necromancer, one who evokes the dead
2.ghost, spirit of a dead one
3.practice of necromancy
3.one that has a familiar spiritHere are some scripture that is speaking of ghosts, necromancers, or necromancy using this word.
Isa 8:19 (KJV) reads:
Quote And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 19:3 (KJV) reads:
Quote And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; andI will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
Isa 29:4 (KJV) reads:
Quote And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
2Ch 33:6 (KJV) reads:
Quote And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
1Ch 10:13 (KJV) reads:
Quote So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
SearchGodsWord.org entry for “ba`alah” reads:
Quote 1.mistress, female owner
2.sorceress, necromancer (noun of relationship)Here is a scripture that is speaking of a necromancer.
1Sa 28:7 (KJV) reads:
Quote Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, thatI may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
SearchGodsWord.org entry for “Phantasma” reads:
Quote 1.an appearance
2.an apparition, spectreHere are a couple of scriptures where this word is speaking of a suspected ghost.
Mt 14:26 (KJV) reads:
Quote And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
Mr 6:49 (KJV) reads:
Quote But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:
SearchGodsWord.org entry for “Pneuma” reads:
Quote 1.the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \Holy\ Spirit)
b.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \Truth\)
c.never referred to as a depersonalised force
2.the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a.the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b.the soul
3.a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a.a life giving spirit
b.a human soul that has left the body
c.a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1.used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2.the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4.the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a.the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5.a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a.of the wind, hence the wind itself
b.breath of nostrils or mouthHere is a scripture where this word is speaking of a suspected ghost.
Lu 24:37 (KJV) reads:
Quote But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Please note: This is a continuation of a discussion began in Genesis 10:1-11 on the Scriptural and Biblical doctrine forum.
Irene,
Except for a few concerns I am doing well. Thank you for asking and I hope your health has improved as well.
I do not know how any other way angels travel except on foot. I do know that scripture declares Philip was carried off by the Holy Spirit and appeared elsewhere. I also know is a vision recorded in scripture that included two winged female angels. It is a vision and so may be symbolic or a mix of symbolism and reality as are some parables. I do believe that angels ascend and descend from heaven even as Jacob witnessed in his own vision. I also believe they are among us and we often do not see or in any way know they are there much like the case of Balaam before God opened his eyes.
I am looking where scripture explicitly claims angels are spirits. I did come across evidence that demons are spirits in both the new and Old Testament. I cannot definitely declare according to what I know that demons are fallen angels.
I do know of pre and post flood Giants but the details of what led to their formation escapes me.
References:
Acts 19:13-17(NIV) reads:
Quote Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.
When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor.
1 Kings 22:19-23(NIV) reads:
Quote Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, ‘I will entice him.’
“‘By what means?’ the LORD asked.
“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’
“So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you.”
1 Timothy 4:1(NIV) reads:
Quote The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
1 Samuel 16:14(NIV) reads:
Quote Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.
Shimmer, Gene,
There is much delight in your posts to me. Thank you.Gene, point of order: there has only ever been ONE resurrection, that of Jesus Christ.
The rest that you say is true, as much as I read.
There are to be two more resurrections. Mass resurrections firstly for the elite ones, the 144,000, who will become like the Jesus, brothers with him, heirs to God, begotten Sons of God.
Then after that, the rest who may or may not see everlasting life according to the judgement of Christ.
These latter ones who attain life will live in the new Paradise earth.Now as for the Mikeboll64s, Irene, Kathis, Kerwins, they, as it is said innthe vernacular, can go to 'the nether world'!
They have polluted their minds by trapping themselves in embarrassing ideas brought about by attempting to belittle JustAskin. Kerwin is dangerous, extremely dangerous, like drinking from a lead cup. He is poison, or HAS Brought Poison, to the forum and made them drink from his cup.
Mikeboll64, is a devious poster who is self-seeking. The rest are just deceived by their own desire to not be moved.
They actually have no idea what they read, just believe that simply saying 'I worship God and Jesus' they are saved.
In fact, they don't know what they believe because if they did they would not be trying to crucify me, again!Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 07 2011,17:03) Jay, the one I would do this to was my Mother, who I love. I knew I was wrong. I would go on and on so much, telling her how wrong she was in how she saw things, and I would get like you Jay so angry with Her not hearing me. I was right she was wrong in my eyes. I was on such a buzz. But one day I was doing it and I noticed the look of despair on her face, and I thought 'oh my gosh. What am I doing ? I stopped from that moment on. Now we can talk and I really enjoy it. So much better. I learned to let go of our differences.
Shimmer! Would you be as kind to Istari or should I say JA, if he would be as nasty as he is to Mike, Kath, Kerwini and me? I doubt it. I don't
respond to him because of his nasty remarks. Until he gets nicer, and I don't hold my breath, i will not respond to him…I also never made NASTY REMARK'S TO HIM LIKE HE HAS TO US…..I prayed for him last night and I will continue to do so until he either stops or has to leave like JA, He could even be JA…..he never answered that question…..
Peace and love IreneIstari……………….I do realize there is only one actual resurrection to eternal life and that was Jesus, what i was referring to is the vision given Ezekiel of a (future) event to take place , the valley of dried bones in Ezekiel . In the vision it plainly shows the whole house of Israel being raised as Physical being with flesh and bones. But you are right Jesus is the only one so far.
Here is something to think about , where God says O my People i will bring you out of our GRAVES ……..> this has to mean a resurrection from a dead state, now if we consider that God is performing a resurrection and we know when we die our spirits return to him who gave it and our thoughts PARISH, we as a being no longer exist. I believe the reason GOD say he would bring us out of a Grave is because He must recreate our exact DNA physical structure and add spirit into it in order for us to continue to exist. IMO
JA……….This subject of “Do Spirits have Bodies” is very crucial to understand, it can open up all kinds of scriptures if properly understood by all , if we can come to see that Spirit is NOT a BODY of ANY TYPE but what is (IN) Bodies, the intellects driving all bodies that has life (IN) them. This can serve to destory a lot of MYSTERY RELIGION taught to all of us in our past. Simplifying what Spirit is really can help all who take hold of it. IMO
As for Kerwin i also agree with you about his position on Phantoms and Ghosts if he would read what he posted about them carefully he could see that God is telling us they are all false beliefs just like looking at a Idol of Stone and trying to make something Metaphysical out of it, when in fact it is nothing at all. This is nothing more then a Form of MYSTERY RELIGION also, there is no soundness in those teachings , much of this comes from his belief the we exist in three states < Physically as a spirit body and soul, he does not except the fact that we only exists as a SOUL, by having a Physical BODY with SPIRIT (IN) IT. That is why Jesus said God could destory us (IN) the Grave, because once the Body dies and the Spirit is separated from it we no longer exist as a BEING and if it weren't for GOD keeping our DNA and restoring a exact body (a resurrection) we simply would no longer exist, it is crucial we obtain a resurrection just as it was for Jesus also.
JA…..I like the fact you drive the hammer here because it does get stagnate by us keep saying the same thing over and over, and we need to be forced to back up our word in Exact and Specific terms. Making the scriptures say what in fact it does not say (specifically) has always been a big problem here and in most all religious sites. Even if some get angry over it. “YOU”, “MAKE THE TREE GOOD AND IT'S FRUIT GOOD OR “YOU”, MAKE THE TREE BAD AND ITS FRUIT BAD”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
hi Gene
so now you can figure it out that all of men creation can fit in a book
(only DNA ) this would not be a big bookPierre
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 08 2011,02:43) Shimmer, Gene,
There is much delight in your posts to me. Thank you.Gene, point of order: there has only ever been ONE resurrection, that of Jesus Christ.
The rest that you say is true, as much as I read.
There are to be two more resurrections. Mass resurrections firstly for the elite ones, the 144,000, who will become like the Jesus, brothers with him, heirs to God, begotten Sons of God.
Then after that, the rest who may or may not see everlasting life according to the judgement of Christ.
These latter ones who attain life will live in the new Paradise earth.Now as for the Mikeboll64s, Irene, Kathis, Kerwins, they, as it is said innthe vernacular, can go to 'the nether world'!
They have polluted their minds by trapping themselves in embarrassing ideas brought about by attempting to belittle JustAskin. Kerwin is dangerous, extremely dangerous, like drinking from a lead cup. He is poison, or HAS Brought Poison, to the forum and made them drink from his cup.
Mikeboll64, is a devious poster who is self-seeking. The rest are just deceived by their own desire to not be moved.
They actually have no idea what they read, just believe that simply saying 'I worship God and Jesus' they are saved.
In fact, they don't know what they believe because if they did they would not be trying to crucify me, again!
istarino ,you have the first resurrection 144k plus the great crowed
then the others for judgment the second
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,11:36) Irene,
Istari is JA.
Kathiyou right changing name does not change someone personality,does it
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,04:36) Irene,
Istari is JA.
How did you find out? Did He say so? That would exp;ain why He is so mean spirited….Peace IreneIrene,
He told us in a clever way.
Go to this page:https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=140
scroll down to the 4th post down and LEFT click on the “Hi smimmer” link then observe the name of the one who posted the comment.
It's deceitful but clever!
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2011,03:45) hi Gene so now you can figure it out that all of men creation can fit in a book
(only DNA ) this would not be a big bookPierre
Terricca ………..So whats your point or do you have any point to what you just said here.?gene
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 08 2011,07:23) Irene,
He told us in a clever way.
Go to this page:https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=140
scroll down to the 4th post down and LEFT click on the “Hi smimmer” link then observe the name of the one who posted the comment.
It's deceitful but clever!
Kathie, I did that and his first post on that page came up….with Itari users name. It doesn't matter, we all know who he is, he never fooled me either…..That is why i didn't care what he said, I considered the source….. Peace IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 08 2011,14:35) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2011,03:45) hi Gene so now you can figure it out that all of men creation can fit in a book
(only DNA ) this would not be a big bookPierre
Terricca ………..So whats your point or do you have any point to what you just said here.?gene
genei just pick up some in your comment,about the DNA
the size of a DNA is very small,so my point is that in the book of live it does not take much space,
Pierre
Ok, i'm going to be my usual 'free spirited' self that I used to be. Karmarie is who I used to post as, I used to spend my time “debating Bod” my friend. I loved it. i could be myself, say what I felt, and so what if I 'worded something wrong' or whatever,
What is it here ? Theres some really nasty people. Not very Christianlike at all. Actually very far from it I saw more of a good spirit in my Muslim friend, seriously.
Anyway, this whole thing fits into this topic really.
“Flesh and Blood”
Forget all this strange conversaion, here is the truth,
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, or cannot enter Heaven
Flesh and Blood What is flesh and blood ?
See, people think too much in this world.
Flesh and blood is what most people are today
Too earthly.
To inheret the kingdom of God you have to be in the Spirit or spiritual, the things of the spirit/ual connect with God,
Once connected with God in this way, then you can inheret the kingdom of God.Once connected with the true spirit of God you dont sin any longer, you have peace and love and Joy,
You are no longer flesh and blood.
If I worded something wrong there or whatever please forgive and correct me, I dont really care as Im not perfect !
Can I ask a few questions?
Who was the Spiritual Leader of the Church?
Who was the Spiritual Father of Onesimus (Philemon 1)?
What does it mean to be Spiritually Inclined?
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 08 2011,08:36) Ok, i'm going to be my usual 'free spirited' self that I used to be. Karmarie is who I used to post as, I used to spend my time “debating Bod” my friend. I loved it. i could be myself, say what I felt, and so what if I 'worded something wrong' or whatever, What is it here ? Theres some really nasty people. Not very Christianlike at all. Actually very far from it I saw more of a good spirit in my Muslim friend, seriously.
Anyway, this whole thing fits into this topic really.
“Flesh and Blood”
Forget all this strange conversaion, here is the truth,
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, or cannot enter Heaven
Flesh and Blood What is flesh and blood ?
See, people think too much in this world.
Flesh and blood is what most people are today
Too earthly.
To inheret the kingdom of God you have to be in the Spirit or spiritual, the things of the spirit/ual connect with God,
Once connected with God in this way, then you can inheret the kingdom of God.Once connected with the true spirit of God you dont sin any longer, you have peace and love and Joy,
You are no longer flesh and blood.
If I worded something wrong there or whatever please forgive and correct me, I dont really care as Im not perfect !
Shimmer! Stick yourself with a needle and see if blood comes out….
I know we all are flesh and blood, and with that body we cannot enter the Kingdom of God literally speaking and not spiritually. So what is your real you?? Debating? maybe you need to look closer who really is nasty….you sticking up with him like always, and for the world I don't know why!! !! ! Tell me Shimmer, Karmaie what nasty did we do to you to say that about your people here, I guess I am one of them, am I?? And Bod is still here, go and debate with him, its free…. Irene
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