Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

duplicate

January 2, 2011 at 7:47 pm#231108

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,12:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 03 2011,05:23)

Mike

you say;;While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

this is not true;wen Jesus was twelve he new,and the fact that he knew is that s why he went to John the baptist to do his fathers will,(to finish his work on earth)

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I don't claim that Jesus had NO knowledge before the Jordan. But if he had ALL knowledge, then this following scripture makes no sense:

52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

How could he GROW IN WISDOM if he already had all wisdom?

peace and love,
mike

Mike

Mat;11-19;But wisdom is proved right by her actions

Mt 13:54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get
Lk 11:49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’
Lk 21:15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

Ac 6:3 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them

1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power

1Co 1:19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

so what do you think is that wisdom?

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 8:02 pm#231110

Blocked

Pierre,

That is a vague question. What do YOU think is “love”? Those kinds of questions you ask are open to many various opinions, none of which can be properly deemed as “wrong”.

Let's make this easier. Do you think that Jesus, as a 1 day old baby, had the complete knowledge of who he was and his past life in heaven? I don't. I think he knew SOME things, and was guided by his God's spirit throughout his early life. I beleive he was guided by spirit to come to John the Baptist just as John was guided by spirit to go into the wilderness.

But how about you? Do you think Jesus knew all at the age of 1 day old?

mike

January 2, 2011 at 8:07 pm#231111

Blocked

Pierre,

I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.

Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?

mike

January 2, 2011 at 8:17 pm#231115

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,06:07)

Pierre,

I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.

Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?

mike

Mike! Would anyone of us say NO, i don't think so. But why did you asked that question?
Peace Irene

January 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm#231117

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,13:07)

Pierre,

I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.

Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?

mike

Mike

you ask a question on a subject you do not yet understand,

what did Jesus want to get across to his disciples ,was it not that he was resurrected and tell them that it is really him even do he looks different ?

now one more question;is it report that Jesus resurrected was walking all over with a body full of holes ? ,for the only report of it is with Thomas in a closed room,for the reason well known ,to show a lessen to Thomas,

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 8:29 pm#231119

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,13:02)

Pierre,

That is a vague question. What do YOU think is “love”? Those kinds of questions you ask are open to many various opinions, none of which can be properly deemed as “wrong”.

But how about you? Do you think Jesus knew all at the age of 1 day old?

mike

Mike

I quoted you scriptures to answer my question

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 9:18 pm#231125

Istari

Participant

Hello,

I was reading in Wikipedia (Incarnation of demons) that demons do not possess bodies but could create bodies.

Is this the answer to this thread – or was it about something else?

January 2, 2011 at 10:01 pm#231127

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,06:07)

Pierre,

I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.

Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?

mike

No he did not, when he stood in front of them he was not spirit, he “was” flesh and bones.
You also have to understand what is meant by “a ghost”; he assured them that they were not seeing things, that it was really him, except he did not look the same, that is why he showed them his wounds.
He had told them that after 3 days and nights, he would rise from the dead, and who else was crucified that had said he would rise from the dead?
Did he not after he had spoken to them disappeared just they way he had come, or did he leave by the door?

Georg

January 3, 2011 at 12:14 am#231141

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,07:18)

Hello,

I was reading in Wikipedia (Incarnation of demons) that demons do not possess bodies but could create bodies.

Is this the answer to this thread – or was it about something else?

Hi! This tread is about spirit beings. You asked if Demons have a body? Do Angels have a body? Yes. And demons are fallen Angels.

1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

Peace Irene

January 3, 2011 at 12:18 am#231143

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,07:18)

Hello,

I was reading in Wikipedia (Incarnation of demons) that demons do not possess bodies but could create bodies.

Is this the answer to this thread – or was it about something else?

Hi! Do Demons have bodies? Do Angels have Bodies? Scriptures say this in

1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

look up what celestial means…..Peace Irene

Sorry I double posted this

January 3, 2011 at 12:26 am#231144

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,10:18)

look up what celestial means…..Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

Is this what you mean? …Celestial: Sky objects, bodies and astronomy terms: Astronomical objects.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 12:36 am#231148

Istari

Participant

Georg, hello,

I see great confusion in this thread.

George, it seems you are right concerning this aspect.

Jesus went to pains to show that he was FLESH and BONE… Why is this disputed by anyone here…even Doubting Thomas believed and further, Jesus went on to say:

Quote

“because you have seen me [and felt me] YOU have believed. HAPPY are those who did not see but yet believe”

And what is it that Paul says:

Quote

“It is buried a Natural Body, it is raised a Spiritual Body, for if there is a Natural body there is also a Spiritual body”

What is the “Natural Body”? Did Jesus die in a Natural Body?
What is the “Spiritual Body”? Was Jesus raised in a Spiritual Body?

I see Mikeboll64 says Jesus didn't acquire a Spiritual Body until he was entering Heaven 'for what reason would he need a Spiritual body before' (Please excuse my adlib!).

But Scriptures does not say what Mikeboll64 is saying. There is no reference to Jesus having his body made Spiritual 'just before he entered Heaven'.

It appears that just as Paul says, Jesus was raised up into the SAME Body he was buried in but that SAME body was made Spiritual (The tension is around the term “Spiritual Body” here I think!)

There seems to be debate over Jesus showing his hands and side with wounds proving it was HIM, and that the wounds were real…but the Disciples did not recognise Jesus until he showed them.

When Jesus died, his body was scourged and torn, yet his newly raised body was not – except for the wounds in his hand and side – could his body have been cleaned up for the burial so his less ragged scars were embalmed (or whatever they do in pallors) Why didn't Jesus show them the where the thorns pierced his forehead and the Scourge marks on his back?

No, I believe that Jesus maintained the Holes in his body explicitly to prove who he was. Remember that he had healed many people of damage to their body…how easy would it have been for the Holy Spirit to heal Jesus' wounds. No, he wears his wounds as a trophy of his triumph. Perhaps why Revelation shows him as a lamb 'as if slaughtered'.

And then, Jesus just 'APPEARED' to two men walking on the road, then just as bewilderingly, 'DISAPPEARED', 'Vanished' before them when they reached their destination.
Then he mysteriously 'entered among the disciples' from nowhere.
Then he shockingly 'Entered in among them' even though “the doors had be been shut for fear of the Jews”.
Then later on Jesus rises up into the clouds and DISAPPEARS in from of some of the disciples…two men mysteriously appear saying “Men of Galilee, why look you up in the empty sky, this Jesus will appear again in like fashion that you [just saw] him leave”.

How did his body enter Heaven. Jesus said Flesh and Blood cannot enter Heaven…
Did he say that “FLESH and BONE” cannot enter Heaven…who says this – I think this is plain silly… Why? because Heaven is the realm of the Spirits – not the realm of the Material – and FLESH and BONE is Material.

Perhaps, FLESH and BONE is the SPIRITUAL BODY (Note: Not Flesh and BLOOD – why?)
What is a Spiritual Body… Pure, incorruptible, Godly, without Sin.
What is a Natural Body… impure, corruptible, unGodly, with Sin.

The word “Spirit” means, “Without Body” – Jesus had a body on being raised up, and he proved he was not Spirit.
But then he entered Heaven and is Now Spirit, as Mikeboll64 says.
Wikipedia says that certain church leaders believed that Demon Spirits could create bodies for themselves.
So if Demon Spirits can materialise bodies [illegally] for themselves, and presumably de-materialise them as them, then why would Jesus find it a problem to do so having the full backing of god Almighty?
Who takes a shower with his clothes on?
No, you take off the [sullied] clothes, enter into the [Heavenly] shower, then put on [clean] clothes when you come out.

Is this a NATURAL BODY? Is this what a SPIRITUAL BODY can do?
I think this is hitting on the answer to this seemingly endlessly confusing discussion.

January 3, 2011 at 12:49 am#231150

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,10:36)

Georg, hello,

I see great confusion in this thread.

George, it seems you are right concerning this aspect.

Jesus went to pains to show that he was FLESH and BONE… Why is this disputed by anyone here…even Doubting Thomas believed and further, Jesus went on to say:

Quote

“because you have seen me [and felt me] YOU have believed. HAPPY are those who did not see but yet believe”

And what is it that Paul says:

Quote

“It is buried a Natural Body, it is raised a Spiritual Body, for if there is a Natural body there is also a Spiritual body”

What is the “Natural Body”? Did Jesus die in a Natural Body?
What is the “Spiritual Body”? Was Jesus raised in a Spiritual Body?

I see Mikeboll64 says Jesus didn't acquire a Spiritual Body until he was entering Heaven 'for what reason would he need a Spiritual body before' (Please excuse my adlib!).

But Scriptures does not say what Mikeboll64 is saying. There is no reference to Jesus having his body made Spiritual 'just before he entered Heaven'.

It appears that just as Paul says, Jesus was raised up into the SAME Body he was buried in but that SAME body was made Spiritual (The tension is around the term “Spiritual Body” here I think!)

There seems to be debate over Jesus showing his hands and side with wounds proving it was HIM, and that the wounds were real…but the Disciples did not recognise Jesus until he showed them.

Is this a NATURAL BODY? Is this what a SPIRITUAL BODY can do?
I think this is hitting on the answer to this seemingly endlessly confusing discussion.

Hi! You are so right, I tried to show Mike the same thing too. What is so ironic is that Mike first believed that Jesus was a Spirit Being after His resurrection, but changed His mind when Shimmer
showed Him a Scripture when He appeared to the Apostles….
Peace Irene
PS my husband and I share the same users name….

January 3, 2011 at 12:50 am#231151

shimmer

Participant

Hey, have you seen that JustAskin is unblemished again – he has no blocks anymore…that is “Spiritual!”

January 3, 2011 at 12:53 am#231152

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:26)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,10:18)

look up what celestial means…..Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

Is this what you mean? …Celestial: Sky objects, bodies and astronomy terms: Astronomical objects.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed Definitions of celestial on the Web:

of or relating to the sky; “celestial map”; “a heavenly body”
relating to or inhabiting a divine heaven; “celestial beings”; “heavenly hosts”
of heaven or the spirit; “celestial peace”; “ethereal melodies”; “the supernal happiness of a quiet death”
Peace Irene

January 3, 2011 at 12:54 am#231154

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 03 2011,10:50)

Hey, have you seen that JustAskin is unblemished again – he has no blocks anymore…that is “Spiritual!”

No Shimmer that is wrong…….

January 3, 2011 at 1:17 am#231158

Istari

Participant

Hi Irene,
sorry, but I don't seem to be able to find anything on the internet that give the definition you give.

Please can you post where you got it from. and also how Paul's writing in 1 Corinthians has anything to do with “Celestial beings, Divine Heaven or Heavenly hosts. Paul doesn't mention any of those things.
Paul mentions Celestial bodies as “Sun, Moon and stars” and indeed that what ALL DICTIONARIES say “Look up “CELESTIAL BODIES” – not “CELESTIAL” by itself.
Sorry, Irene, you need to maintain CONTEXT else we can all change words and terms and then apply them to our ideas – and that would be wrong!!!
Sorry, I mean, Paul says “CELESTIAL BODIES” but you posted a definition of “CELESTIAL” only.

Please post a definition of “Celestial Body” – please…

I see from previous posting in this thread that that was a central point of confusion.

Also, Irene, Do Spirits have SEED? Do Spirits procreate?
[qoute]Mat 22:29-30:
“Jesus answered and said to them, ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.”
“For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are AS the angels of God in heaven.” (This referring to being married and having children).[/quote]

January 3, 2011 at 1:47 am#231163

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,06:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,06:07)

Pierre,

I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.

Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?

mike

Mike! Would anyone of us say NO, i don't think so. But why did you asked that question?
Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

I ask because of this scripture:

Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

So, if Jesus really WAS a spirit with a fake, manifested body when he said this, don't you think that would have been deceitful for him to mislead them into thinking he WASN'T a spirit when he really was?

So that's why I ask: Do you think Jesus would have LIED to them like that?

peace and love,
mike

January 3, 2011 at 2:05 am#231164