Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,12:08)

Terricca………..Your response to Shimmer only shown you ignorance of what was being said by Her. Your are an accuser of the brethren as i told you before. Your lack of understanding the English language only causes confusion here. IMO and others also by the way.

peace and love………………………gene

I have no problem understanding Pierre.
As far as ignorance is concerned, you know what they say; people who live in glass houses…

Georg

December 31, 2010 at 2:41 am#230621

Participant

Irene………..So why was the eyes of those (witholden) from recognizing Jesus if he did not look like he always did? Please don't go off in another direction until you answer that question Specifically for a change if you can.

Not one apostle ever said they did not recognize him when they were up close to him. Even Thomas did recognize him even though he did not believe He had been raised from the dead and Jesus let them handle him to prove it was HIS BODY and HIM in it. Denying Jesus' resurrection as a Human being raised from the dead is denying His existence in the flesh also and his flesh resurrection too, is denying Jesus own words that he was raised with flesh and Bone also. You people never quite trying to make Jesus something different then we are do you. To deny Jesus' fleshly existences and resurrection in the flesh is the Spirit (intellect) for the Antichrist. IMO

Peace and love……………………………………gene

December 31, 2010 at 4:50 am#230645

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,12:08)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,12:02)

Georg………..No Jesus was not a human being before he was born on earth because he never existed before his berth on earth , expect tin the plan and will of GOD. IMO

peace and love………………………………………gene

Gene

You're right, in your OPINION; unfortunately that's all it is.
Since I know you don't believe scriptures, I will say no more to you than this.

Georg

Georg…………Right and your opinions here just yours also. And your are welcome to have them , just as i am welcome to have mine right.

peace and love………………………………..gene

December 31, 2010 at 5:10 am#230650

seekingtruth

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,08:35)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54)

I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

Have you forgotten that Mary Magdalene did not recognize Jesus by the grave? she thought he was the gardener; neither did any of the other apostles recognize him by sight.

And why was that… “But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him.”

Quote

Luke 24:39, you have to understand that the apostles were in doubt about Jesus them self; they were in a locked room for fear of the people, suddenly there appeared Jesus in their midst; what would you have thought that could have been, if not a ghost?
Jesus had to manifest himself once he was in the room, other wise they would not have seen him, but his sudden appearance frighted them so he had to identify him self since obviously they did not recognize him by sight.
Only when he showed them his wounds did they believe him.
Jesus assured them it was really him, since a Ghost/spirit has no flesh and bones;

Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

So Jesus fooled them some special effects???

Quote

why did he not mention blood? when you look at a person, are you in doubt whether he or she has blood under their skin?

Job 2:5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

satan must of had the same problem

Quote

Do you understand “WHY” Jesus had to come as a human being to die?

To fulfill the Law and provide an intercessor who could understand us, being tempted in every way.

Quote

Was Jesus a human being in heaven before he came down to earth?

Georg

I do not believe that Jesus was a “human being” before He came down to earth.

December 31, 2010 at 5:21 am#230653

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,19:08)

peace and love………………………gene

Gene

we know your opinion stand for nothing but wind,and most of the time with dust.
you have eyes and you can read better than I,this I know and can see,but so also could the pharisees.

Pierre

December 31, 2010 at 5:52 am#230664

seekingtruth

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,06:11)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,05:35)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54)

I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

OK then what about that the Apostles did not recognized Him and neither did Maria Madeline. I believe that Jesus did magnify in order to show Thomas who was doubting that Jesus has risen from the dead, and the Apostles did not' recognize Jesus either and were doubting, until He broke bread. Also in

1 Corinth.15 :42 So it is also the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
v.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.etc.
v.44 It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body…..

Do you say that this does not imply to Jesus? is that what you think? We can;t believe in one scripture and not in another…..
One more thing do you believe in a ransom?
Peace Irene

Irene,
The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.

We currently have bodies that are flesh oriented, but we will then have bodies that are spiritually oriented.

Obviously I agree that all scriptures must harmonize but what do you do with Jesus Himself saying he had flesh?

As to why they did not recognize him, I believe that His new flesh would be based solely on His DNA without the effects of living on earth (except for the scars) and we are told in revelations that He had white hair.

As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.

My opinion – Wm

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus gave his body and blood for us, so we can live. If He was raised in the body the ransom would not have effect.

Peace Irene

Obviously I've heard of the word.

The last few days I saw a couple of references to “ransom sacrifice” as a title to some sort of philosophy (I was curious but didn't have the time to check into it) I thought you were asking about that.

Jesus did give his body as a ransom. Ransom “can refer to the sum of money involved” (in His case the cost) unless you believe it to be the other meaning ” the practice of holding a prisoner or item to extort money or property” He offered Himself up, fulfilled the law and bought us our freedom, unless you believe satan is holding Jesus' body somewhere.

Let me ask you a question do you know what resurrection means?

Sorry if I seem a little sarcastic (on this and the previous post, and I may as well apologize for the one I haven't written yet), I mean no disrespect, to you or Georg, and pray only the best for you guys.

My opinion – Wm

December 31, 2010 at 5:56 am#230667

Participant

To all………… NO Spirits do not have (BODIES) Common SENSE should tell you that , Not to mention Jesus own words “A SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE AS YOU SEE I HAVE> Jesus was and still is a flesh and bone Human Being and will return a rule over this world as such also. Spirit is what is (IN) a BODY Spirit is Not a BODY now or ever will be a BODY. IMO GOD live (IN) his creation of which we are a part of the creation, GOD who is SPIRIT was (REALLY) (IN) Jesus , Just as He said He was. GOD Cohabited His body with Him and can do the same with Us also “THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) ALL AND THROUGH (all). GOD the Father spoke (first person) AT TIMES through Jesus' Mouth, as when He said destory (this temple) and in three day I (God) shall raise it up, that was GOD the FATHER speaking first Person through Jesus.

Spirit (intelligence) is what life is and it is in all that has life (IN) itself to one degree or another. Man has the potential of having all seven Spirits (intellects) of GOD (in) him, as Jesus recieved at the Jordan and now has (in) him becoming a Son of GOD at that time in his life. IMO

peace and love………………………….gene

December 31, 2010 at 6:02 am#230668

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,22:56)

peace and love………………………….gene

gene

with that kind of opinions you just must use the bible as a counter weight to dry up flowers??

Pierre

for some reason i do not see your supporting scriptures,are they missing in the bible??

December 31, 2010 at 6:03 am#230669

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,15:21)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,19:08)

peace and love………………………gene

Gene

we know your opinion stand for nothing but wind,and most of the time with dust.
you have eyes and you can read better than I,this I know and can see,but so also could the pharisees.

Pierre

Terricca…………Where did you get your accusing spirit from was that GOD or the one you are mimicking all the time? My bible say “SATAN is the ACCUSER of the BRETHREN”, now does that ring a bell, it should.

peace and love………………………gene

December 31, 2010 at 6:16 am#230675

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,16:02)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,22:56)

peace and love………………………….gene

gene

with that kind of opinions you just must use the bible as a counter weight to dry up flowers??

Pierre

for some reason i do not see your supporting scriptures,are they missing in the bible??

Terricca………….Here is a few because i know you are unable to remember them . Better yet so you can remember them , Go read where Jesus said that spirit is like the wind and you cant see the wind but only its effects. And Where he said GOD is a SPIRIT and no one has ever seen GOD, and again where Jesus said a spirit does (not have a body) as he had (and that was after his resurrection). And Not to mention no scripture no where say there exists a SPIRIT “BODY” And If GOD was (IN) Jesus as he said He was, where was the body at? And If a Spirit goes out of a man does it take a BODY with IT if so what kind of BODY is IT?. Now if you are unable to reconcile all the scriptures that prove this i can quote you all the many scripture that back it up. But it would not make any difference because it is not the truth you seek here and never really did. IMO

So research these for yourself and then maybe you might be able to remember them for a change. IMO

gene

December 31, 2010 at 6:19 am#230676

seekingtruth

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,08:57)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58)

The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.

As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.

My opinion – Wm

Are you serious with your first statement?
You are raised, either spirit or flesh, but not both.

William, what is the penalty for sin? death, right?
It is not just dying and then live again, it is permanent death.
Adam's sin held him in the grave; Jesus came and took his sin off him, and placed it on him self; freeing Adam from sin and he can now live again by a resurrection; that is what a ransom is, an exchange, Jesus' body for Adam's body.
But what about the sin Jesus took on him self? what about our sins he took on him self? it enables us to live again by a resurrection. But what do you do with a body that has all of our sins on him? he stays in the grave, the penalty is still the same, death. You see, this is how God was able to resurrect Jesus, not in a flesh body, but in his spirit body that he had before he came down to us.
The flesh body, sinful body, had to remain dead, but God disposed of it for obvious reasons. Jesus is what he was before, a spirit being, only now he is a glorified spirit being who's countenance shines as the sun in full strength.

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Paul saw him this way for just a moment, and it blinded him.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that “””appeared””” unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Georg

Okay… I should have read this one first…

He did not resurrect Jesus' body???

And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???

I prefer scripture:

Job 19:25″As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26″Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!

My opinion – Wm

December 31, 2010 at 7:04 am#230692

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,08:57)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58)

The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.

As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.

My opinion – Wm

Are you serious with your first statement?
You are raised, either spirit or flesh, but not both.

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Paul saw him this way for just a moment, and it blinded him.

Georg

Okay… I should have read this one first…

He did not resurrect Jesus' body???

And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???

I prefer scripture:

My opinion – Wm

Wm! So you agree that all will have a chance to hear Jesus. I think you are the first to agree on that, most don't…..Also Jesus is a Spirit Being right now, right?
Rev.19:13-16 tells us that He will come again as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This Scripture shows us that He has a glory which He had before the world was…. Do you believe that both John 1:1 and 17:5 says that that glory is a Spirit Being? I do…
Therefore I also believe He will come again as a Spirit Being…..To rule with the elect….which are also Spirit beings, do you agree on that?

The reason I say that is that Jesus has divinity now, and will never die again….Georg and I believe that was His reward for dying for us. There is a scripture about that, but of hand I don't remember. Georg is my memory box….and He is sleeping, which I should be doing.
You quote Job, I feel that is somewhat misleading. Nobody will be able to look at God in all His glory and live…….good night Irene

December 31, 2010 at 9:40 am#230720

Ed J

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,07:16)

Was Jesus the Son of God ? Yes.
Did Jesus speak the truth ? Yes.
Did Jesus suffer and was He crucified for our sins ? Yes.
Was Jesus risen from the dead in the flesh ? He was.
Will Jesus return one day ? He will.
Is He our Lord ? He is.
Should we sin ? No.
Should we love God with all our Heart ? Yes.
Should we obey God ? Yes.
Should we pray ? Yes.
Should we submit to God's will and not our own ? We need to.
Should we love other's ? We should.
Should we try to save other's ? We should.
Should we help people ? (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) We need to.
Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.
Does God punish people forever ? No.
Should we blaspheme the 'Glorious ones' and speak of thing's we know nothing about ? No.

Hi Shimmer,

Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost”. (Click Here)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 31, 2010 at 10:46 am#230725

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,17:21)

Gene

we know your opinion stand for nothing but wind,and most of the time with dust.
you have eyes and you can read better than I,this I know and can see,but so also could the pharisees.

Pierre

Gene and all, In the past I would never report a post. I have had things said to me, and I have kept quiet. I have seen all kinds of things said to others and I have kept quiet. Lately I have no doubt myself said thing's to people. I have decided though that from now on I will report whatever I see if it is harmfull to a persons spiritual wellbeing. We shouldnt tolerate it. See how easily others got tiled and banned. Then other's still get away with it. We dont need to tolerate it.

If I have said anything here to upset anyone, then I apologise. Jay was only speaking truth and He got frustrated because no-one listened, and everyone got frustrated in the end. SeekingTruths signature verse say's it all. And we should all be seeking truth and not causing wars or divisions.

Everyone should have a right here to have a say. We are all at different levels of understanding. The weak should be cared for, the less knowledgable taught…truthfully. No-one should be scared to ask a question and no-one should be scared of people understanding something wrong. We are all different and we should all be treated as such, but we should all also be treated equal with no favourite treatment of individuals.

None of this is Christian like. And it should stop.

December 31, 2010 at 10:49 am#230726

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,21:40)

Hi Shimmer,

Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost”. (Click Here)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed:)…Jesus hasnt returned yet.

December 31, 2010 at 10:50 am#230727

Participant

But Ed, we look forward to the day.

December 31, 2010 at 10:58 am#230730

kerwin

Participant

Shimmer,

I cannot say whether Ed is wrong about Jesus comming in his Spiritual form as it depends on what he means. After all according to Scripture those that believe are a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. We know that this is only possible because Jesus to lives in them by his Spirit.

Ephesians 2:22 reads:

Quote

And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

On the other hand Jesus is not a spiritual being but will return in the flesh at the time of the end. I am not certain about the time line at that time and little if anything about as my knowledge lies mostly in the realm of becoming righteous as God is righteous through faith.

December 31, 2010 at 10:58 am#230731

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,08:57)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58)

The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.

As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.

My opinion – Wm

Are you serious with your first statement?
You are raised, either spirit or flesh, but not both.

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Paul saw him this way for just a moment, and it blinded him.

Georg

Okay… I should have read this one first…

He did not resurrect Jesus' body???

And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???

I prefer scripture:

My opinion – Wm

Two things; one, God did not hide the flesh body of Jesus, it was the means by which God could forgive us our sins; when the job was done God disposed of it.

Two, Job is not talking about the body of Jesus, he is referring to his own body. He will see God and Jesus if he is in the first resurrection.

Georg

December 31, 2010 at 11:02 am#230732

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,19:40)

Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost”. (Click Here)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Your Bible illiteracy is almost funny.
Jesus did not return at Pentecost, he send us the Holy Spirit, just as he had said he would.

Georg

December 31, 2010 at 11:15 am#230736