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Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,07:12) What is it with people here ? By big deal I meant IT IS IMPORTANT to believe.
Well, I for one did not take it that way.Georg
Was Jesus the Son of God ? Yes.
Did Jesus speak the truth ? Yes.
Did Jesus suffer and was He crucified for our sins ? Yes.
Was Jesus risen from the dead in the flesh ? He was.
Will Jesus return one day ? He will.
Is He our Lord ? He is.
Should we sin ? No.
Should we love God with all our Heart ? Yes.
Should we obey God ? Yes.
Should we pray ? Yes.
Should we submit to God's will and not our own ? We need to.
Should we love other's ? We should.
Should we try to save other's ? We should.
Should we help people ? (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) We need to.
Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.
Does God punish people forever ? No.
Should we blaspheme the 'Glorious ones' and speak of thing's we know nothing about ? No.That's what's important and that's what I was meaning. And there would be thing's I missed out but as I said to Mike, I think you get what i'm meaning, but obviously no-one did.
Shimmer! Show me one Scripture that says that Jesus was risen in the flesh?
For what is worth I did understand what you meant……Peace IreneI'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Wm
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,04:16) Was Jesus the Son of God ? Yes.
Did Jesus speak the truth ? Yes.
Did Jesus suffer and was He crucified for our sins ? Yes.
Was Jesus risen from the dead in the flesh ? He was.
Will Jesus return one day ? He will.
Is He our Lord ? He is.
Should we sin ? No.
Should we love God with all our Heart ? Yes.
Should we obey God ? Yes.
Should we pray ? Yes.
Should we submit to God's will and not our own ? We need to.
Should we love other's ? We should.
Should we try to save other's ? We should.
Should we help people ? (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) We need to.
Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.
Does God punish people forever ? No.
Should we blaspheme the 'Glorious ones' and speak of thing's we know nothing about ? No.Shimmer,
I agree with everything except “Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.” Personally I believe there are times we should come to the defense of the defenseless.But, in my opinion this falls under personal conviction, so at least in my opinion it requires no more discussion, we can agree to dis-agree.
I do not embrace the trinity teaching, but I also do not agree that they are doomed to hell for their inaccurate view as we are trying to comprehend the incomprehensible. Both are based on scripture with at least one missing the mark.
– Trinity, confront gently, but I can agree to dis-agree,
– Allah, atheism, new age, now these are teachings to be confronted.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54) I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Wm
OK then what about that the Apostles did not recognized Him and neither did Maria Madeline. I believe that Jesus did magnify in order to show Thomas who was doubting that Jesus has risen from the dead, and the Apostles did not' recognize Jesus either and were doubting, until He broke bread. Also in1 Corinth.15 :42 So it is also the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
v.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.etc.
v.44 It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body…..Do you say that this does not imply to Jesus?
is that what you think? We can;t believe in one scripture and not in another…..
One more thing do you believe in a ransom?
Peace IreneQuote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,14:03) I reported your post Terrarica. And I hope the mod here does something.
shimmerthats all members privilege;but at the same time you should read your own comments ,
maybe this would teach you something.
now you just say “this stupid forum” why is this your reflection??
Pierre
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,05:35) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54) I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Wm
OK then what about that the Apostles did not recognized Him and neither did Maria Madeline. I believe that Jesus did magnify in order to show Thomas who was doubting that Jesus has risen from the dead, and the Apostles did not' recognize Jesus either and were doubting, until He broke bread. Also in1 Corinth.15 :42 So it is also the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
v.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.etc.
v.44 It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body…..Do you say that this does not imply to Jesus?
is that what you think? We can;t believe in one scripture and not in another…..
One more thing do you believe in a ransom?
Peace Irene
Irene,
The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.We currently have bodies that are flesh oriented, but we will then have bodies that are spiritually oriented.
Obviously I agree that all scriptures must harmonize but what do you do with Jesus Himself saying he had flesh?
As to why they did not recognize him, I believe that His new flesh would be based solely on His DNA without the effects of living on earth (except for the scars) and we are told in revelations that He had white hair.
As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,10:35) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,14:03) I reported your post Terrarica. And I hope the mod here does something.
shimmerthats all members privilege;but at the same time you should read your own comments ,
maybe this would teach you something.
now you just say “this stupid forum” why is this your reflection??
Pierre
My comments Terrarica ? WHEN have I EVER said to any other believer here that they don't know God or His Son ?Never Terrarica. I would never even think that. Only God knows those thing's.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,16:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,10:35) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,14:03) I reported your post Terrarica. And I hope the mod here does something.
shimmerthats all members privilege;but at the same time you should read your own comments ,
maybe this would teach you something.
now you just say “this stupid forum” why is this your reflection??
Pierre
My comments Terrarica ? WHEN have I EVER said to any other believer here that they don't know God or His Son ?Never Terrarica. I would never even think that. Only God knows those thing's.
shimmeris this yours ?;Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,07:12)
What is it with people here ? By big deal I meant IT IS IMPORTANT to believe.=====================================
wen you deciding that what is and what is not this make you above God,and that make you not to believe in God because now you are god,
by our words we will be judged.
Pierre
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,05:35) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54) I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Wm
OK then what about that the Apostles did not recognized Him and neither did Maria Madeline. I believe that Jesus did magnify in order to show Thomas who was doubting that Jesus has risen from the dead, and the Apostles did not' recognize Jesus either and were doubting, until He broke bread. Also in1 Corinth.15 :42 So it is also the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
v.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.etc.
v.44 It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body…..Do you say that this does not imply to Jesus?
is that what you think? We can;t believe in one scripture and not in another…..
One more thing do you believe in a ransom?
Peace Irene
Irene,
The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.We currently have bodies that are flesh oriented, but we will then have bodies that are spiritually oriented.
Obviously I agree that all scriptures must harmonize but what do you do with Jesus Himself saying he had flesh?
As to why they did not recognize him, I believe that His new flesh would be based solely on His DNA without the effects of living on earth (except for the scars) and we are told in revelations that He had white hair.
As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.
My opinion – Wm
OKMar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Jesus gave his body and blood for us, so we can live. If He was raised in the body the ransom would not have effect.
Peace Irene
shimmer
sorry i mis this one of your post;
shimmer
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1311
Joined: July 2010 Posted: Dec. 31 2010,02:00——————————————————————————–
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2010,16:54)
And why would you think that you and I would agree on what's “important” and what's not? We are very different people Shimmer. You are lax on the trinity, when I think that doctrine causes people to worship someone other than God against the direct command of God.I don't know that being wrong about whether or not Jesus was raised with his SAME body qualifies as something that would keep anyone from everlasting life, Shimmer.
Mike, look at the wording here…
“If thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved”
Now HOW important is it Mike?
Confessing outloud that Jesus is Lord.
Believing in your heart that God raised Him out of the dead.Trinity ? No big deal to me.
Was Jesus the Son of God ? Big deal.
Did Jesus speak the truth ? Big deal.
Did Jesus suffer and was He crucified for our sins ? Big deal.
Was Jesus risen from the dead in the flesh ? Big deal.
Will Jesus return one day ? Big deal
Is He our Lord ? Big deal.
Should we sin ? Big deal.
Should we love God with all our Heart ? Big deal.
Should we obey God ? Big deal
Should we pray ? Big deal.
Should we submit to God's will and not our own ? Big deal.
Should we love other's ? Big deal.
Should we try to save other's ? Big deal.
Should we help people ? (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) Big deal
Should we go to war or take sides in war ? Big deal
Does God punish people forever ? Big deal.
Should we blaspheme the 'Glorious ones' and speak of thing's we know nothing about ? Big deal.I think you get my drift.
Edited by shimmer on Dec. 31 2010,03:24
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,07:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2010,11:04) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 29 2010,06:02) I say, he offered up his body, not just his blood; I say that since you seam to see a difference there.
Hi Georg,And you might be right. Pierre has posted a scripture from the last supper where Jesus definitely says he offers his BODY for us.
I'm just trying to make that scripture work out with the one where Jesus says he is NOT [yet] a spirit. I know Jesus is a spirit NOW, and I have posted that 1 Cor 15 scripture many times as proof, along with Galatians 1:1 and 1:12 – which both make it clear that Jesus is no longer a man.
But I just don't know how to reconcile Luke 22:19 with Luke 24:39. Do you?
peace and love,
mike
mikeJesus braking the bread, and referring to it as his body, is symbolic, just as he had said,
Jhn 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Now look at these scriptures.
Jhn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Now you know he did not men that literal.
The “bread” he is talking about is the word of God.
He in the flesh, brought us that bread, his flesh body, symbolizing that bread, was broken for us.
Jesus explains that our body profits nothing from that.Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Luke 24:39, you have to understand that the apostles were in doubt about Jesus them self; they were in a locked room for fear of the people, suddenly there appeared Jesus in their midst; what would you have thought that could be if not a ghost?
Jesus had to manifest himself once he was in the room, other wise they would not have seen him, but his sudden appearance frighted them so he had to identify him self since obviously they did not recognize him by sight.
Only when he showed them his wounds did they believe him.
Jesus assured them it was really him, since a Ghost/spirit has no flesh and bones; why did he not mention blood? when you look at a person, are you in doubt whether he or she has blood under their skin?
That's the best way I know how to explain it.Georg
Wm This is what my husband said to Mike about the same thingIrene
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,10:30) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,04:16) Was Jesus the Son of God ? Yes.
Did Jesus speak the truth ? Yes.
Did Jesus suffer and was He crucified for our sins ? Yes.
Was Jesus risen from the dead in the flesh ? He was.
Will Jesus return one day ? He will.
Is He our Lord ? He is.
Should we sin ? No.
Should we love God with all our Heart ? Yes.
Should we obey God ? Yes.
Should we pray ? Yes.
Should we submit to God's will and not our own ? We need to.
Should we love other's ? We should.
Should we try to save other's ? We should.
Should we help people ? (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) We need to.
Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.
Does God punish people forever ? No.
Should we blaspheme the 'Glorious ones' and speak of thing's we know nothing about ? No.Shimmer,
I agree with everything except “Should we go to war or take sides in war ? No.” Personally I believe there are times we should come to the defense of the defenseless.But, in my opinion this falls under personal conviction, so at least in my opinion it requires no more discussion, we can agree to dis-agree.
I do not embrace the trinity teaching, but I also do not agree that they are doomed to hell for their inaccurate view as we are trying to comprehend the incomprehensible. Both are based on scripture with at least one missing the mark.
– Trinity, confront gently, but I can agree to dis-agree,
– Allah, atheism, new age, now these are teachings to be confronted.
My opinion – Wm
Amen to that SeekingTruth. I agree with all that you said.Bodhitharta asked a question once 'If you saw people in your community being killed, raped, tortured, would you just stand there and do nothing or would you go to defend those innocent people and children and woman” And I agreed with Him, something would just snap, and you would want to defend those people. Invasion can be a different thing though.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,07:54) I'm not Shimmer but; Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Wm
WmHave you forgotten that Mary Magdalene did not recognize Jesus by the grave? she thought he was the gardener; neither did any of the other apostles recognize him by sight.
Luke 24:39, you have to understand that the apostles were in doubt about Jesus them self; they were in a locked room for fear of the people, suddenly there appeared Jesus in their midst; what would you have thought that could have been, if not a ghost?
Jesus had to manifest himself once he was in the room, other wise they would not have seen him, but his sudden appearance frighted them so he had to identify him self since obviously they did not recognize him by sight.
Only when he showed them his wounds did they believe him.
Jesus assured them it was really him, since a Ghost/spirit has no flesh and bones; why did he not mention blood? when you look at a person, are you in doubt whether he or she has blood under their skin?Do you understand “WHY” Jesus had to come as a human being to die?
Was Jesus a human being in heaven before he came down to earth?Georg
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58) The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component. As to ransom… I don't know I only heard it for the first time a few days ago.
My opinion – Wm
WmAre you serious with your first statement?
You are raised, either spirit or flesh, but not both.William, what is the penalty for sin? death, right?
It is not just dying and then live again, it is permanent death.
Adam's sin held him in the grave; Jesus came and took his sin off him, and placed it on him self; freeing Adam from sin and he can now live again by a resurrection; that is what a ransom is, an exchange, Jesus' body for Adam's body.
But what about the sin Jesus took on him self? what about our sins he took on him self? it enables us to live again by a resurrection. But what do you do with a body that has all of our sins on him? he stays in the grave, the penalty is still the same, death. You see, this is how God was able to resurrect Jesus, not in a flesh body, but in his spirit body that he had before he came down to us.
The flesh body, sinful body, had to remain dead, but God disposed of it for obvious reasons. Jesus is what he was before, a spirit being, only now he is a glorified spirit being who's countenance shines as the sun in full strength.Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Paul saw him this way for just a moment, and it blinded him.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that “””appeared””” unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Georg
Georg………..No Jesus was not a human being before he was born on earth because he never existed before his berth on earth , expect tin the plan and will of GOD. IMO
peace and love………………………………………gene
Terricca………..Your response to Shimmer only shown you ignorance of what was being said by Her. Your are an accuser of the brethren as i told you before. Your lack of understanding the English language only causes confusion here. IMO and others also by the way.
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,12:02) Georg………..No Jesus was not a human being before he was born on earth because he never existed before his berth on earth , expect tin the plan and will of GOD. IMO peace and love………………………………………gene
GeneYou're right, in your OPINION; unfortunately that's all it is.
Since I know you don't believe scriptures, I will say no more to you than this.Georg
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