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Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2010,03:45) Pierre, Point 1:
I wrote:
Quote Anyone that has not been transformed to imperishable flesh has corrupt flesh.
I am speaking only of human beings. It is in 1 Corinthians 15-52-55.
Point 2:
I wrote:
Quote I only know of a few that have been so transformed and they all have free access to all the heavens.
That is Enoch, Genesis 5:24 and Elijah,2 Kings 2:1, before death and Mosses, Jude 1:9-10 and Matthew 17:3-4, after death. Angels appear to have free access to all the heavens, Job 1, so I see no reason to believe transformed humans would not.
Point 3 $ 4:
I wrote:
Quote Dead souls have access to Sheol/Hades which is said to be located in the third heaven.
Point 3:
Psalms 16 10 speaks of the soul of Jesus residing in Hades after his death and before his resurrection, i.e. the soul of the dead or dead soul.
Point 4:
The third heaven is mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12 and for the context I went to Jewish believes. The Jews believe in there are seven heavens after the number seven which represents perfect completion. Their teaching about the seven heaven is consistent with Paul’s reference to the Third heaven and close to Jesus’; promise that he would see the one thief in Paradise as well as the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. Here is Wikipedia states about it. Wikipedia also addresses the third]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Heaven]third heaven[/url] here.
Paul obviously is teaching some variation of this teaching.
Point 5:
I wrote:
Quote He did clearly state it is possible to visit the third heaven while still in a corrupt body by indicting such was a possibility.
2 Corinthians 12:3. Paul clearly states the man could have entered the third heaven while either in his body or out of his body.
Pont 6
I wrote:
Quote I believe the Garden of Eden is a material place that God transferred to heaven between end of the Fall and the beginning of the Flood. It therefore will not be located on earth.
After the Fall the Garden was reachable for mankind but blocked by cherubim. The flood destroyed everything on earth. Paradise survived and thus was not on earth at that time. Paradise is now located in the third heaven.
Point 7
I wrote:
Quote I do believe the spiritual realms are extra-dimensional and thus invisible to us.
Extra-dimensional merely means originating outside our three dimensional reality. Some would state supernatural though even scientists have began to believe in such ideas. If you look at the story of Balaam and his ass, the angel was present even though Balaam could not see him. If the angel was extra dimensional then he would not be visible unless God gave the animal or human the ability to see extra dimensionally. Jesus passed through a wall after being resurrected and an extra dimensional human would have no problem doing so as the wall would not exist for them. The data thus justifies the word though it is a hypothetical application.
Kerwinfirst Paul says that he do not know if that was in the flesh or not,the third heaven,
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
this is talking about Stevens view of the kingdom of heaven.
spalm 16;wen is decay sets in a dead body???
so anyone who live today still in perishable flesh,and so have to die
1Co 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Co 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
1Co 15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
KERWIN;I DO NOT SEE THE WORD FLESH ,WERE IS IT WRITTEN?
ONE MORE THING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR BELIEVES UNLESS THEY ARE BACKED UP BY SCRIPTURES,SO PLEASE SHOW THEM ,
THIS IS FOR point 2Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 18 2010,20:23) JA…I think your wrong there, think about it, he is one of the more stronger believers here, His beliefs are more the same as t8s and terrarica and Irenes, JA, apologise, your being a bit too hard.
Hi Shimmer,How do you define …'a strong believer'… one that you agree with?
Think about it!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,20:41) Just Askin, I am certain that a spiritual body is just like Jesus’ body during and after his resurrection in that is cannot be permanently harmed in any way and cannot die though it has a material present. This resulted in Jesus’ resurrection when he was transformed.
Any wound suffered can be healed or retained with no negative results. This explains Jesus not suffering from the wounds he bore after resurrection.
It is a body that can transfer between “dimensions” at the will of the person possessing it. This explains Jesus passing through walls and ascending to heaven.
Hi Kerwin,You mean a resurrected body; No?
We have the “God Spirit” in this body!Do you believe Adam and Eve were created as
trans-dimensional beings in the Garden of Eden?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,20:45) Pierre, 2 Corinthians 12:3. Paul clearly states the man could have entered the third heaven while either in his body or out of his body.
Hi Kerwin,You are clearly reading into the text here,
but I agree with on this point, reading into the text
is necessary to understand the full scope of Biblical meanings!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,20:46) Ed J. You wrote:
Quote 1) Speak for yourself; don't include me in on that!
God includes you and I am just repeating what I hear from scripture.
FALSE!Rom.8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but IN THE Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any
man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 18 2010,16:33) so if I state based on these scripture that God must of manifested a body to do these appearances, how is it unscriptural?
Hi Wm,First of all, Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself. Do you want me to post scriptures that say Jesus is the Son of God?
Second, no one has seen God AT ANY TIME. (John 1:18)
I'm sorry Wm, I didn't mean to offend, but just to make a factual statement. I can surely see how it sounded arrogant. I will work on that, for I have been getting “edgy” here lately.
Please forgive, and let's discuss John 1:18 if you want.
But for now, do you think angels have bodies?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,20:46) Ed J. Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 17 2010,22:52) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2010,17:55)
I believe the Garden of Eden is a material place that God transferred to heaven between end of the Fall and the beginning of the Flood. It therefore will not be located on earth.
This is an interesting concept; can you
explain how you derived at this conclusion?“After the Fall the Garden was reachable for mankind but blocked by cherubim. The flood destroyed everything on earth. Paradise survived and thus was not on earth at that time. Paradise is now located in the third heaven.”
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 17 2010,22:52) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2010,17:55)
I do believe the spiritual realms are extradimentional and thus invisiable to us.
Great! So do I!This is another point we agree on.
Hi Kerwin,
Quote Quote from Kerwin… A. “After the Fall the Garden was reachable for mankind but blocked by cherubim. The flood destroyed everything on earth. Paradise survived and thus was not on earth at that time. Paradise is now located in the third heaven.”
A) This to me is not an explanation at all.Quote Quote from Kerwin… B. “Extra-dimensional merely means originating outside our three dimensional reality. Some would state supernatural though even scientists have began to believe in such ideas. If you look at the story of Balaam and his ass, the angel was present even though Balaam could not see him. If the angel was extra dimensional then he would not be visible unless God gave the animal or human the ability to see extra dimensionally. Jesus passed through a wall after being resurrected and an extra dimensional human would have no problem doing so as the wall would not exist for them. The data thus justifies the word though it is a hypothetical application.”
B) Do you believe Adam and Eve were originally created as trans-dimensional beings?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (shimmer @ Nov. 18 2010,10:35) Quote Shimmer: Quote However with the “Nephilim” Angels could have possessed human bodies…similar to demon possesion……….
If the angel only possessed a human body, then wouldn't it still have been human sperm fertilizing a human egg? Just asking……
Hmmm thats true, ok, your right in everything I wrote so far.
Hi Shimmer,I bet you'll never guess what I was thinking about all day at work today.
Angels having sex. 
Check it out. Jesus is created in the image of God. Man is created in the image of God. Though the Bible doesn't specifically say, I would guess that angels are also created in the image of God. (You can use your “Jesus was originally an angel” belief to help you see this!
)We know that some of the angels mated with human women. But why? If angels weren't created with sexual tendencies in the first place, why would they ever even think about having sex with human women? If they weren't already created with the DESIRE and CAPABILITY to have sex, then what would be their “driving force” behind wanting to do it with human beings?
Moses says the human women were “good looking” to them. Why? Would you be sexually attracted to a different species? Like maybe a pig? How about a walrus? But maybe if that other species looked similar to the way your own species looked, you could then be sexually attracted to someone of that other species, right?
Just some thoughts – what do you think?
peace and love,
mikePierre:
Quote Jude 1:22 Be merciful to those who doubt;
Jude 1:23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.it is not easy brother,
You are right about that brother. But I'm a work in progress, and I have made it my goal to absolutely refuse to get involved in hate and anger on this site from now on.If they offer insults, I will offer blessings.
If they steal my pride, I will offer to them also my dignity.
I will turn the other cheek.
I will show mercy, mixed with fear.This is my goal from now on Pierre. Won't you help to keep me honest in it?
Thanks in advance,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2010,17:08) Hi Mike, What are you talking about?
There's no mention of Uzzah in Ezra?
Do mistakes in Matt. make it uninspired too?
Hi Ed,It sounded to me like you were implying that the Bible books written by King's scribes were not as inspired as the Law and the Prophets. Did I understand you wrong?
And to what “mistake” in Matthew do you refer?
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 18 2010,19:54) Mikboll says God has a FACE….like a human face, he thinks..
Hi JA,I have no idea what God's face looks like. Someday I hope to talk to Him face to face though.
I described my definition of “body” to you. You didn't respond to that post.
And Shimmer's post got me thinking. If the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans, and angels are spirit creatures, then spirits actually did procreate.
Shimmer had suggested that the angels “possessed” a human male, not exactly like your thought that they “manifested” themselves as human beings. But the fact remains that “spirit sperm” impregnated a human egg. And it is at this precise moment that a being had been “begotten”. It is at this precise moment that the “procreation process” had been completed, right?
So when that “spirit sperm” entered into the human egg, and a new life began, that was the completion of a spirit procreating a new life.
So spirits DO procreate. And if angels can, then why not their Creator?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,20:39) That is Acts 17:28 specifically but you should study the whole passage from verse 24 to verse 29 that describes God. It is informative.
Hi Kerwin,So THIS scripture you want to take literally word for word, huh? But not Phil 2 or John 17:5 or Micah 5:2?
That's okay, let's discuss it. I don't know if you are familiar with the rock artist Peter Frampton. He had a big hit in the 70's with a song called “I'm in You”. The lyrics included, “I'm in you, you're in me”. Now I'm sure Peter's love interest in the song wasn't literally living within his body. It is a figure of speech.
And it's important to note that Paul was speaking to the predominantly Greek audience in Athens. Read the whole chapter, and you'll see that he was day by day debating and reasoning with a bunch of philosophers.
Now, remember Paul saying this:
1 Cor 9:20-22 NIV
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.So the quote, “For in him we live and move and have our being” is actually from the Cretan philosopher Epimenides. It is nowhere else in scripture, and Paul was trying to be like a Greek philosopher in order to win over Greek philosophers. He even quoted some of their “bible” – so to speak.
The next line he quoted, “We are his offspring”, was from the Cilician Stoic philosopher Aratus.Kerwin, all I'm saying is that Paul was quoting know Greek philosophers in an effort to win over some of the people from Athens.
I don't think we literally live within the being of God, or we would be God. Or at least a part of the being of God. Is there anything that exists inside your body that isn't a part of you?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,19:13) Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 18 2010,19:54) Mikboll says God has a FACE….like a human face, he thinks..
Hi JA,I have no idea what God's face looks like. Someday I hope to talk to Him face to face though.
I described my definition of “body” to you. You didn't respond to that post.
And Shimmer's post got me thinking. If the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans, and angels are spirit creatures, then spirits actually did procreate.
Shimmer had suggested that the angels “possessed” a human male, not exactly like your thought that they “manifested” themselves as human beings. But the fact remains that “spirit sperm” impregnated a human egg. And it is at this precise moment that a being had been “begotten”. It is at this precise moment that the “procreation process” had been completed, right?
So when that “spirit sperm” entered into the human egg, and a new life began, that was the completion of a spirit procreating a new life.
So spirits DO procreate. And if angels can, then why not their Creator?
peace and love,
mike
MikeI do not believe that God use procreation
Jesus had an preexisting live so it is more how we take this spirit being and take off all his glory and send him to be as men,
this is no problem for God ,and if there is no detail explanation we will know it later at the least those who had faith in Christ and believed in him trough the words of his apostles will.Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2010,12:39) Mike I do not believe that God use procreation
Jesus had an preexisting live so it is more how we take this spirit being and take off all his glory and send him to be as men,
this is no problem for God ,and if there is no detail explanation we will know it later at the least those who had faith in Christ and believed in him trough the words of his apostles will.Pierre
Hi Pierre,Forget what you think you know about “procreate”. This is what it means, from Dictionary.com:
1. to beget or generate (offspring).
2. to produce; bring into being.So, you have to ask yourself, “Did God beget, generate, produce, or bring into being an offspring?”
If you answer yes to any of the above, then God “procreated”.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,19:45) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2010,12:39) Mike I do not believe that God use procreation
Jesus had an preexisting live so it is more how we take this spirit being and take off all his glory and send him to be as men,
this is no problem for God ,and if there is no detail explanation we will know it later at the least those who had faith in Christ and believed in him trough the words of his apostles will.Pierre
Hi Pierre,Forget what you think you know about “procreate”. This is what it means, from Dictionary.com:
1. to beget or generate (offspring).
2. to produce; bring into being.So, you have to ask yourself, “Did God beget, generate, produce, or bring into being an offspring?”
If you answer yes to any of the above, then God “procreated”.
mike
Mikeok.done agreed
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,11:23) Hi Wm, Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,This wording is 100% in line with what (I believe)
happened before the foundation of this world!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,14:13) If the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans, and angels are spirit creatures, then spirits actually did procreate. Shimmer had suggested that the angels “possessed” a human male, not exactly like your thought that they “manifested” themselves as human beings. But the fact remains that “spirit sperm” impregnated a human egg. And it is at this precise moment that a being had been “begotten”. It is at this precise moment that the “procreation process” had been completed, right?
So when that “spirit sperm” entered into the human egg, and a new life began, that was the completion of a spirit procreating a new life.
Mike,
Whos to say that doesnt happen today ? Luke 17..26'And, as it came to pass in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man; they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were given in marriage, till the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the deluge came, and destroyed all;
So go back to the Days of Noah,
When the Nephillim were on the earth, “marrying and being given in marriage”
Genesis 6:1-7,
And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them, and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen. And Jehovah saith, 'My Spirit doth not strive in man — to the age; in their erring they are flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years. The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them — they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name. And Jehovah seeth that abundant is the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day; and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself — unto His heart. And Jehovah saith, 'I wipe away man whom I have prepared from off the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens, for I have repented that I have made them.'
A bit more to think about,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2010,17:08) Hi Mike, What are you talking about?
There's no mention of Uzzah in Ezra?
Do mistakes in Matt. make it uninspired too?
Hi Ed,It sounded to me like you were implying that the Bible books written by King's scribes were not as inspired as the Law and the Prophets. Did I understand you wrong?
And to what “mistake” in Matthew do you refer?
mike
Hi Mike,Have you not read in the Scriptures of God how the Philistines
had “The Ark” in their presence, yet there is No record
of any of them dieing from touching “The Ark”!
(1Sam.4:17 / 1Sam:5:2-11 / 1Sam:6:1-21)Have you NOT over looked this Biblical FACT?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2010,17:08) Hi Mike, What are you talking about?
There's no mention of Uzzah in Ezra?
Do mistakes in Matt. make it uninspired too?
Hi Ed,It sounded to me like you were implying that the Bible books written by King's scribes were not as inspired as the Law and the Prophets. Did I understand you wrong?
And to what “mistake” in Matthew do you refer?
mike
Hi Mike,There is more than one, but here's one for you…
Does this change anything for you about it being inspired?Matt.27:9-10 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,
saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued,
whom they of the children of Israel did value; And gave them for the potter's field,
as the Lord appointed me.Zechariah 11:12-13 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price;
and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And
the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was
prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them
to the potter in the house of the LORD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,12:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,11:23) Hi Wm, Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,This wording is 100% in line with what (I believe)
happened before the foundation of this world!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I didn't understand what you meant.
mike
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