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Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,19:07) Ed, The return of the Lord or THE DAY OF THE LORD has not happened yet. 2nd Peter 3. When the day does come, you will know. The whole world will know (Every eye will see). The Holy Spirit was sent Ed.
Hi Shimmer,Some day you will have your “Feast of Tabernacles”(The Day of The LORD) ,
just like some day BD will have his personal “Pentecost”, and
some day “The Passover” will be personal to Stuart!1) “The Passover”=148 “The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
“Messiah: Jesus”=148 “JESUS CHRIST“=151 was the “Testator”=151!2) “Pentecost”=117 Started the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which
“Former Rain”=117 is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in Mankind!3) “Feast of Booths”=151 begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
“The Latter Rain”=151 “Tabernacles Feast”=151; being the culmination of all “THREE”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org.
God's Signatureיהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)
.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,22:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,13:06) Mike one more thing ,how would you think that Jesus could prove that he was resurrected has he as said while he was alive ??
because he told them that the Christ as to suffer and die by the hands of the gentiles,
but he could not take back what was Gods gift
Pierre
Hi Pierre,All I'm trying to understand is if you think Jesus was raised with a NEW FLESH body, or his SPIRITUAL body.
mike
MIKeJesus body died and Christ was resurrected a living spirit ,that means he was back alive but in the spirit,and so took a body just to beable to talk to his disciples verbally because they could not recognize him physically and also show miracles so that they were sure he was resurrected,
the body had similar wounds ;hands ,feet,side, and the words he said;so they had physical and spiritual prove that Christ was in deed resurrected from the dead.
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,01:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,17:07) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,13:36) Shimmer, this is not fromthe JW, which I too found on the Internet. Noticed the Scriptures…. Ransom theory of atonement
Shimmer,See what happens when you try to prove you're right just by asserting that the other agrees with the JW's?
That should not be a litmus test around here, and I wish people would stop it. I mean, who cares if “ransom sacrifice” was ONLY used by the JW's? It IS what Jesus was for us, right? Just because the JW's also see things the same way as Irene does is not some kind of “proof” that Irene is wrong, is it? Believe it or not, the JW's have the interpretation of the scriptures correct in more cases than not. So agreeing with the JW's is USUALLY a confirmation that you are understanding scripture correctly – not some kind of sign that you are wrong.
mike
I know JWs have alot of thing's right. I can also say that Muslims have alot of things right. But does that mean they are completly correct ? I know Catholics, Baptists, etc have alot of things right too. I was watching a documentary the other day, there is this guy from where I live. He spent something like 20 years as a serious drug addict. He was touched by God. God spoke to him. He gave the drugs up. He joined a church. Now he goes around all of the schools and warns them of the dangers in drugs and tells others of what God is and what God does. This to me is admirable. People everywhere with stories to tell. I don't care what church they go to. I hear the words of God and I feel what God has done, and I am often tearfull at things like this. I feel the power of God.
I admire my Mother. We disagree on things, but when it comes to the most important things we agree, and I learn from her. She is an author and has written and published books from a lifetime of studying scripture.
Speaking of my Mother I asked her what she thought 'spiritual body meant' and she said it's a complete person… we are a spiritual body… we have a soul, a spirit, and a body, so are a spiritual body.
And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this… that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts.
shimmerwen you can teach me ; I can also say that Muslims have alot of things right;
this is your saying, which have they right?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,19:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,22:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,13:06) Mike one more thing ,how would you think that Jesus could prove that he was resurrected has he as said while he was alive ??
because he told them that the Christ as to suffer and die by the hands of the gentiles,
but he could not take back what was Gods gift
Pierre
Hi Pierre,All I'm trying to understand is if you think Jesus was raised with a NEW FLESH body, or his SPIRITUAL body.
mike
MIKeJesus body died and Christ was resurrected a living spirit ,that means he was back alive but in the spirit,and so took a body just to beable to talk to his disciples verbally because they could not recognize him physically and also show miracles so that they were sure he was resurrected,
the body had similar wounds ;hands ,feet,side, and the words he said;so they had physical and spiritual prove that Christ was in deed resurrected from the dead.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Would not what you're describing be “Re-Created” instead of resurrected?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,21:31) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,01:36) I know JWs have alot of thing's right. I can also say that Muslims have alot of things right. But does that mean they are completly correct ? I know Catholics, Baptists, etc have alot of things right too. I was watching a documentary the other day, there is this guy from where I live. He spent something like 20 years as a serious drug addict. He was touched by God. God spoke to him. He gave the drugs up. He joined a church. Now he goes around all of the schools and warns them of the dangers in drugs and tells others of what God is and what God does. This to me is admirable. People everywhere with stories to tell. I don't care what church they go to. I hear the words of God and I feel what God has done, and I am often tearfull at things like this. I feel the power of God.
I admire my Mother. We disagree on things, but when it comes to the most important things we agree, and I learn from her. She is an author and has written and published books from a lifetime of studying scripture.
Speaking of my Mother I asked her what she thought 'spiritual body meant' and she said it's a complete person… we are a spiritual body… we have a soul, a spirit, and a body, so are a spiritual body.
And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this… that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts.
shimmerwen you can teach me ; I can also say that Muslims have alot of things right;
this is your saying, which have they right?
Pierre
Terrarica, The Muslims are obediant to their Prophet. Most of them obey all that they read in their book. Submission to God and obediance to their law. They don't drink alcahol, they don't eat Pork, they don't have images in worship, and much more. Read JEREMIAH 35,The obediant Rechabites.They are having dreams and visions of Jesus, and the Muslims who risk their life to become Christian are the most amazing people, as they have the most amazing faith.
Hi Ed. I'v heard all that before, what you posted to me. So, do you believe Jesus was risen in the flesh or Spirit ? A simple yes or no will do, thanks.
Man oh Man,
Such confusion among you all.Mikeboll gives a definition of Spiritual that says, 'Excluding God'
Then says that the body of the Holy Spirit is God…
Check that again….The definition of Spiritual given by Mikeboll excludes God…then Mike says God is the 'Spiritual' body of the Holy Spirit…
Which then, as Edj says, agrees with his interpretation…disagreed with by Mikeboll…
Ha ha ha … And Mike says, 'When I am shown the truth I don't have a problem changing my mind'….classic liar talk…for when has Mikeboll ever admitted being wrong? He rightly calls himself 'MikeBoLL' for such he speaks, Mikeboll by name, Mikeboll by nature.
I am submitting the word 'Mikeboll' to the International Dictionary Society, definition, 'One who speaks counter intuitive to common sense; one who argues one point at a time but never ever gets past point one; Subnote: one who uses subtle changes to his never ending debates as a means to deflect being found to be speaking falsely'.
George,
Your response to me…a question I put to Mikeboll for a discussional flow reason (I wasn't asking for lack of knowledge…when is anyone going to wise up when I say 'JustAskin does not ask questions because he doesn't know')
George, your unrequested response was like, 'Of course God is Spirit'.
George, do you see the word 'Spirit' in my question?
Why did you change 'Spiritual' to 'Spirit'…and then argue as if you think I was being ignorant….
George, I did not say 'Spirit'…I said 'Spiritual'.Is this the problem with you guys…and gals…you do not know the difference between 'Spiritual' and 'Spirit'…..
When I asked the question I got no answer…Mikeboll running away, once again ducking away claiming I'm being rude to him….has anyone seen his debates with others….EVERYONE IS COMPLETELY AGAINST HIM…''Ishmael: And God said, 'And he shall dwell in tents, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand shall be against him'
Mike runs away from my questions because he knows he is wrong. Mike is competitive and hates to lose…unfortunately, he is wrong so often he has developed a defencive strategy common to all such person…lie, in the fashion of Satan.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,18:36) Speaking of my Mother I asked her what she thought 'spiritual body meant' and she said it's a complete person… we are a spiritual body… we have a soul, a spirit, and a body, so are a spiritual body. And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this… that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts.
shimmer
And you have scripture that prove that, right?
I read in the Bible that man “became” a soul, not that he “got” a soul.
Do you know, animals are “souls” too?“Christians” may agree with Jesus being raised in the flesh, but where is the biblical prove for that?
You would have to ask, why did Jesus come “in the flesh” in the first place? and if he came in the flesh, where did he come from, and was he flesh from where he came?
Do you call a flesh body, a “glorified” body?
It was 40 days after his resurrection when he ascended to heaven, it was then when the Father honored him, set him at his right hand; highest place of honor, and “gave” him immortality.Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself (immortality); so hath he “”given”” to the Son to have life in himself (immortality);
Facts are scriptures, not because you, or your mother, say so.
Georg
Now who is saying that Jesus was raised up into a 'Spiritual Body'?
Yes, this is exactly true.
And who is saying that this 'Spiritual Body' was flesh and Blood?
Yes, this is exactly true.
And who is saying that this was proved to be so?
Jesus, Himself. He proved it to Thomas.
Now, how did Jesus enter the room that was locked?
Simple…because he can materialise a body, and dematerialise a body, at will.
ThomasBoll cannot believe this because he thinks in the flesh…cannot believe (do you hear that over and over with thomasBoll…'cannot believe'??) that a Spirit, which has no body, can materialise a body to hold itself in when in the 'Material World'.To get around this anomaly, thomasBoll says 'Spirts', which the dictionary defines as 'Immaterial' (funny how Mikeboll does NOT give a definition of Spirit…i wonder why …NART!!!!), have bodies….'but does not know of what substance'…duh….no substance Mike, that's why they are called Spirits, double Duh!!!
But see here…Mike is edging his way to believing…he is doing it in such a subtle way that soon he'll be ending up saying what JustAskinhas bern saying from the beginning…
The difference being, that Mike will not admit he was wrong…but also say, 'JustAskin, it's you who has been wrong..I was saying that Jesus was raised into a physically Spiritual Body…just as Paul says…and when he went to Heaven he 'put off the fleshly body' and went in the Spirit…'Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 25 2010,21:03) George, Your response to me…a question I put to Mikeboll for a discussional flow reason (I wasn't asking for lack of knowledge…when is anyone going to wise up when I say 'JustAskin does not ask questions because he doesn't know')
George, your unrequested response was like, 'Of course God is Spirit'.
George, do you see the word 'Spirit' in my question?
Why did you change 'Spiritual' to 'Spirit'…and then argue as if you think I was being ignorant….
George, I did not say 'Spirit'…I said 'Spiritual'.Is this the problem with you guys…and gals…you do not know the difference between 'Spiritual' and 'Spirit'…..
When I asked the question I got no answer…Mikeboll running away, once again ducking away claiming I'm being rude to him….has anyone seen his debates with others….EVERYONE IS COMPLETELY AGAINST HIM…''Ishmael: And God said, 'And he shall dwell in tents, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand shall be against him'
Mike runs away from my questions because he knows he is wrong. Mike is competitive and hates to lose…unfortunately, he is wrong so often he has developed a defencive strategy common to all such person…lie, in the fashion of Satan.
Hey JAThis is an “open” forum, is it not, do I have to wait for an invitation from you? I post were I feel like it.
Well, then you tell us the difference of spirit, and spiritual.
Yes, I see the word “spirit” in your question, drop the “ual”.
What is a “spiritual” body, if not a “spirit” body?
You cant have a spirit, or a “spiritual”, body, and be of flesh and bones. That is complete nonsense.Georg
Terra,
What is that weird point you made…the spirit of Jesus was raised from the dead…?
Terra, Spirits don't die…they are divine…only God can destroy them…
How do you say that Jesus' spirit was raised from the dead and put into a new body?
No, Terra, a new Spiritual Body was created for Jesus…and his Spirit put into that…
Further, the New Spiritual Body was the RENEWED old body that did not see corruption…
Jesus was only in the grave for Three days and nights…Lazarus was in there longer…and Lazarus was raised up into the SAME Body he died in…Here is a dilemma. You say he was raised in the Spirit…and given a body…
Please, everyone…please correct Terra for me…p.s. Spirits don't die…
George,
You do not see 'Spirit'…you see 'Spiritual'Why do you lie to the whole forum like Mikeboll does, by changing one word to another then 'proving' something someone did not say.
George, Scriptures does not say anything about a 'Spirit Body'.
There is not one single phrase, or reference to 'Spirit Body'…it was Mikeboll who made it up and Irene and Terra followed him.George, show me ONE Single reference, a quote, for 'Spirit Body'.
George, what is 'Spiritual Food'?
What is a 'Spiritual eye'?
What is a 'Spiritual Wisdom'George, is God 'Spiritual'?
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,20:07) Hi Ed.
I'v heard all that before, what you posted to me. So, do you believe Jesus was risen in the flesh or Spirit ? A simple yes or no will do, thanks.
Hi Shimmer,But you still have trouble believing “The Truth”; Yes?
A simple yes or no will NOT do!
Your question cannot be answered with a yes or a no?
“God The Father” resurrected Jesus physically. (Gal.1:1)
“In Spirit Form” Jesus was taken up in a cloud . (Acts 1:9)
Jesus returned with the father on Pentecost. (John 14:23)
We're in the day of The LORD, burning up all the rudiments!God's Signature
יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
[“The Latter Rain“=151 and “former rain“=117] unto the earth.1) “The Passover”=148 The Passover(74×2): made possible “Pentecost”=117
“Messiah: Jesus”=148 “JESUS CHRIST“=151 was the “Testator”=151!2) “Pentecost”=117 Started the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which
“Former Rain”=117 is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in Mankind!3) “Feast of Booths”=151 begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
“The Latter Rain”=151 “Tabernacles Feast”=151; being the culmination of all “THREE”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGeorge,
When I said you interjected, i mean you took me out of context. I was not asking Mike the question because I needed to know nor because i was ignorant, but because Mike was leading himself down a blind alley…and I was standing behind him waiting for his u-turn.Why did you think that I was being ignorant?
George,
A 'Spiritual Body'…is a body that is pure, unsullied, incorruptible by sin, glorified.
This is what Paul says in Corinthians 15: the old body, prone to sinful ways, sullied, unglorified, subject to corruption, is buried (this is not necessarilly physical death and burial but could be a metaphoric death and burial, a figurative death and burial, like with Jacob, who was figuratively and Spiritually killed by Abraham…but raised by God…through the lamb…).
The Apostles died 'metaphorically' in the flesh, and were metaphorically raised, Spiritually raised, …still in the physical flesh but of a 'Spiritual mind', pure in thought, incorruptible, cleansed of the propensity to Sin.This, George, is the 'Spiritual body'…the body not proned to sin…
Edj just posted a set of verses…
“Jesus was raised in the flesh”
“Jesus was taken up to Heaven in the Spirit”When did Jesus change from the fleshly body to the Spirit?
(Please do not try to force the text to say 'Spirit body'…a Spirit does not have a body….that's why it is called 'Spirit'…
For Man, there is a Body…and there is a Spirit. The Spirit resides in the physical body, or, in Spirit realm, Heaven.
The body resides on Earth, in the physical realm alone.)Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 25 2010,21:49) George,
You do not see 'Spirit'…you see 'Spiritual'Why do you lie to the whole forum like Mikeboll does, by changing one word to another then 'proving' something someone did not say.
George, Scriptures does not say anything about a 'Spirit Body'.
There is not one single phrase, or reference to 'Spirit Body'…it was Mikeboll who made it up and Irene and Terra followed him.George, show me ONE Single reference, a quote, for 'Spirit Body'.
George, what is 'Spiritual Food'?
What is a 'Spiritual eye'?
What is a 'Spiritual Wisdom'George, is God 'Spiritual'?
JAYou're like a cote hanger, easily bend out of shape.
Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
So what bodies do angels have, do they not have “spirit body's”?
I call that a “reference” to spirit body's.No, spirit body simply means, “invisible body”. Not every one will become a spirit being, there will be people like there are now, after the millennium, but they too will be without sin.
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 33:25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:
You see, I don't make any wild statements, I rely on scripture; my advise to you, do the same.
Spirits don't have bodies? what are angels, puffs of smoke or vapor?
I can tell, you obviously understand very little about the Bible, is that the reason you thought that I thought you were ignorant?Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,14:09) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,20:36) Shimmer, this is not fromthe JW, which I too found on the Internet. Noticed the Scriptures…. Ransom theory of atonement
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The ransom view of the atonement,[1] is one of several doctrines in Christian theology related to the meaning and effect of the death of Jesus Christ. The first major theory of the atonement, it originated in the early Church, particularly in the work of Origen. The theory teaches that the death of Christ was a ransom, usually said to have been paid to Satan, in satisfaction of his just claim on the souls of humanity as a result of sin. Christian philosopher Robin Collins summarized it as follows:Essentially, this theory claimed that Adam and Eve sold humanity over to the Devil at the time of the Fall; hence, justice required that grace pay the Devil a ransom to free us from the Devil's clutches. God, however, tricked the Devil into accepting Christ's death as a ransom, for the Devil did not realize that Christ could not be held in the bonds of death. Once the Devil accepted Christ's death as a ransom, this theory concluded, justice was satisfied and God was able to free us from Satan's grip.[2]
“Redeeming” in this case literally means “buying back,” and the ransoming of war captives from slavery was a common practice in the era.
The theory was also based in part on Mark 10:45: “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many”; and 1 Timothy 2:5-6: “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time”. The ransom theory was the main view of atonement through the first thousand years of Christian history, though it was never made a required belief.[2] There were some who held different positions, however. The commentary on Romans attributed to Pelagius (who was declared a heretic, though for his view of grace, not his view of atonement) gives a description of the atonement which states that a person's sins have “sold them to death,” and not to the devil, and that these sins alienate them from God, until Jesus, dying, ransomed people from death.[3] The orthodox St. Athanasius proposed a theory of the atonement which similarly states that God wills for sin to lead to death, and so, to remain consistent with Himself must have Jesus die for sins, or have humankind die. This has some similarity to the Satisfaction view, although St. Athanasius emphasized the fact that this death is effective because of our unity with Christ, rather than emphasizing a legal substitution.[4]St. Anselm, the 11th century Archbishop of Canterbury argued against the ransom view, saying that Satan, being himself a rebel and outlaw, could never have a just claim against humans.[2] The Catholic Encyclopedia calls the idea that God must pay the Devil a ransom “certainly startling, if not revolting.”[5] Philosopher and theologian Keith Ward, among others, pointed out that, under the ransom view, not only was God a debtor but a deceiver as well, since God only pretended to pay the debt.
Others, such as Gustaf Aulén, have suggested that the meaning of the Ransom theory should not be taken in terms of a business transaction (who gets paid), but rather understood as a liberation of human beings from the bondage of sin and death. Aulén's book, Christus Victor, maintained that the Early Church view had been mischaracterized, and proposed a reevaluated Ransom Theory as a superior alternative to Satisfaction Theory.
Anselm himself went on to explicate the satisfaction view of atonement.
Today, the ransom view of atonement is not widely accepted in the West, except by some Anabaptist peace churches and a few theologians in the Word of Faith movement. The Eastern Orthodox Church holds a position which is in some ways similar to it. However, the Orthodox do not have a fully dogmatic view of the atonement. They hold that Christ became Incarnate to restore the Image of God in humanity and to defeat death and sin in the flesh. However, while St. Gregory of Nyssa taught a view similar to the Ransom position, others, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, vigorously denied that Christ was a ransom to the devil.[6] A catechism of the Orthodox Church in America states:
In Orthodox theology generally it can be said that the language of 'payment' and 'ransom' is rather understood as a metaphorical and symbolical way of saying that Christ has done all things necessary to save and redeem mankind enslaved to the devil, sin and death, and under the wrath of God. He 'paid the price, not in some legalistic or juridical or economic meaning. He “paid the price” not to the devil whose rights over man were won by deceit and tyranny. He 'paid the price' not to God the Father in the sense that God delights in His sufferings and received 'satisfaction' from His creatures in Him. He 'paid the price' rather, we might say, to Reality Itself. He 'paid the price' to create the conditions in and through which man might receive the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by dying and rising again in Him to newness of life. (See Romans 5:8 and Galatians 2:4
By dying on the cross and rising from the dead, Jesus Christ cleansed the world from evil and sin. He defeated the devil 'in his own territory' and on 'his own terms.' The 'wages of sin is death'.Romans 6:23 So the Son of God became man and took upon Himself the sins of the world and died a voluntary death. By His sinless and innocent death accomplished entirely by His free will—and not by physical, moral, or juridical necessity—He made death to die and to become itself the source and the way into life eternal.”[7][edit] See also
Christus Victor
Atonement (satisfaction view)
[edit] References
Irenei read this it is crap and full of deceit and lies
Pierre
Pierre, Pierre, the reason I brought this article up is because of what Shimmer said. She quoted the JW, while I gave this article for that reason. it is not all bad. unless you don't believe in a ransom? it has two scriptures in it.Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
I don't think these Scriptures are lies…
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,18:19)
Jesus never sinned, his “mind” was pure, it was his flesh body that took on Adam's sin. It was his flesh body that became the “ransom”, the exchange for Adam.
Hi Georg,I agree with the above part.
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,18:19)
Jesus was dead for three days, when God raised him up, he gave him back his nature he had before, spirit nature.
Had Jesus been resurrected in a flesh body, it would have been as taking back the ransom.
This part is a little tricky for me. Is it the “BODY” itself that was the sacrifice……..or the loss of life? I have a few problems with Jesus being raised immediately from the grave as a spirit.1. Jesus point blank told his disciples, who were thinking he WAS a spirit, that he was NOT.
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”Georg, don't you think this would have been a deceitful thing for Jesus to say if he was in fact a spirit at this point?
2. Paul says that Jesus' BODY “would NOT see decay” like David's body DID see decay. He definitely makes a contrast between the body of Jesus and the body of David – both servants of their God.
Acts 2
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.Acts 13
36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.Let's start with these. What do you guys say?
peace and love,
mike
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